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My biggest annoyance with man pages are that built-ins are a separate command and that there is no way to print all man pages but the first with the man command. That’s right. There’s no way to print every page for a command, 1 through 7 or whatever, with a flag. I am confidently saying there’s no way to do it.
👀
Hoping someone wants to correct me because I want an alias that prints all pages as one. Would also be nice if it did it for built-ins.
Most people don’t even read the error messages. They’re never gonna read a whole manual.
Most people were conditioned by more “user-friendly” systems to ignore the content of error messages because only an expert can make sense of “Error: 0x8000000F Unknown Error”. So they don’t even try, and that’s how they put themselves in a
Yes, do as I say!situation.It’s not even obscure, context dependent errors. I’ve had many professional system administrators not understand what “connection was closed by peer” meant.
Well, to be fair, I’m also not very well versed in the intricacies of connecting with British nobility.
One day I’ll catch that jerk Peer! So rude, always closing my connections!
But most error messages are in plain English first (plus some numbers and codes).
No, they see white (gray actually) blocky text on a black background, they think the machine is broken and go into panic mode. Instead of reading.
Which is kinda what you said.
What about the fucking manual?
Kama Sutra?
I guess you get good at Unix and refrigerator by reading it, so why not?
Don’t fuck the manual!
And because people don’t read error messages, many applications/sites/etc don’t even put them, or if they do they either don’t have any public facing documentation to actually figure out what that code means, or they do and it might as well be nothing
Agreed. I’ve saved so much money by RTFM. As a father of three kids, every dollar saved means a better life for my family.
Car broken? RTFM, bought an ODBII scanner, and fixed it.
Need air conditioning? RTFM and installed my own heat pumps in my house, saving $7000 in labor and markup.
House has an old 60 amp fuse panel? Paid an electrician for the service upgrade, read the NEC, wired and installed all branch circuits and sub panels myself. Passed inspection. Saved $7500.
When you take the time to learn something, you not only get the satisfaction of using your own hands to accomplish something, but you also get to save money.
This goes for life as well. Education? RTFM, studying is a skill and it can be done well as well as ineffectively. There’s many methods nowadays on how to study efficiently, as opposed to cramming knowledge into your short term memory through brute forced memorization (not that all knowledge from school is necessary to be kept).
For appliances at least, 95% of “the manual” today is useless CYA safety disclosures in 17 different languages. Manuals today rarely contain useful information.
Until you do like step one of taking an appliance apart, and realize that the real manual is marked “for technician use only”, and it’s hidden inside of the appliance.
My washer and dryer both have good manuals complete with circuit diagrams under the top once i take a few screws out. My chest freezer has one taped up under the hatch where the compresser sits. My refrigerator has one hidden in the door hinge.
Yeah, my parents were about to throw out an oven that would keep shutting off. I pull it away from the wall and boom, wiring diagram. Take out the ohm meter, figure out that the resistance across the temperature probe went to near zero when steam intruded through a gap in the crimp. 5 dollar part and it was good to go for years to come (the new part was crimped in a simpler, more robust way).
That or Google “<model> service manual”
Dishwasher had the service manual taped to the kick plate. It gave me codes to troubleshoot, finding the heating element died.
Ah, yeah, forgot that was another one I’ve done. It seems like I’ve taken apart most of my household appliances at this point.
There’s sometimes a few Ikea style pictures showing how to put it on a table and plug it in. Which is possibly useful to some.
The troubleshooting section of the manual is almost always useless because it only ever covers user error.
My washer threw a drainage error and the manual suggested I blocked the outlet or had done something daft. I looked up the error code online and 90% of the time it was a failed water pump.
I had to replace the water pump. It was an easy job that required less documentation than a lego set for a 5 year old. You just had to know which screws to loosen to get to the pump. Was it documented? Of course not.
I mean in general, “read things -> learn” is a good approach to life imo.
Too long and difficult. I’ll let chat gpt tell me instead and read that between adverts on Love Island
we’re cooked
Here
for application in /usr/bin/*; do man $application; doneget going
A skill that will be out sourced to AI.
And so now we will have even dumber humans. I dont think I can stand more dumb people.
God yes. I absolutely LOVE a well written manual.
Even if you THINK you know how a thing works, it’s always good to find out the quirks and gotchas, not to mention functionality that might not be obvious at first glance.
In fact, I read the manuals before buying an item or piece of software. They tend to be much more enlightening about a product’s limitations than the marketing material is.
Conversely, it really annoys the fuck out of me when people come on forums and ask a really basic question that’s answered on page 2 of the manual. It shows that someone is incredibly lazy and incapable of basic problem solving. And they have the audacity to get offended when you tell them it’s covered in the manual.
I mean this is true and yes but in an age where documentation is increasingly terrible, the idea of a service manual for something you bought is basically a foreign concept, and half the shit you buy doesn’t come with a meaningful manual does it really apply the same way?
Like sure, knowing the post error codes on my motherboard or linux stuff is possible because it’s documented. But the appliance example? That is increasingly false and those manuals are increasingly becoming 5 page idiot guides: “here is how to turn the system on and off, here is how to turn heat up/down, contact authorized vendor for issues” and if you don’t do that then you void your warranty. Any more robust documentation is locked to “authorized vendors” and costs $$$, if it even exists (and doesn’t just say “replace system when it stops working correctly)
I partly disagree with what you say. The subscription appliance garbage absolutely do lock advanced user manuals behind paywalls. But it isn’t not rare (at least right now) to still find products with good user manuals. There are usually separate documents with one being a “quick setup” and another being a full “user manual”. Avoid the worst offenders and you should be okay.
Becoming increasingly rare and we are speaking on different things. You are talking about a manual that explains how to make your washing machine wash. That is important, yes, but I am talking about a manual that explains how an appliance works.
the days of a manual explaining anything like an error code are basically dead. Name one appliance manufacturer that lists anything beyond the most basic of troubleshooting (“turn it off and back on”)
Like go back and look at an appliance manual from the 70s/80s/maybe 90s and you will see a more robust explanation of what to do when things go wrong. The further back you go the more likely you will see parts numbers, circuit diagrams, or be able to order a service manual that has such information.
We expect this shit level of documentation because we live in a throwaway culture that has tolerated this pisspoor level of documentation for decades. “Oh the washer isn’t working? It’s showing an E-05 error? Guess we better just go buy a new washer” or pay the manufacturer $120 for a “service charge” to find out that code means the latch sensor died and it’s a $30 part that is a simple 5 minute job except you can’t get the part because they won’t sell it to you
My VIC-20 and Commodore 64 came with pinout charts. Every single internal and external connector was labelled.
It’s been about 15 years since I did appliance servicing. But back then many of the dryers would still include a circuit diagram with wire color codes and a timing chart for the controller. But the fancier appliances that had digital control boards, touch panels, etc… Like LG and Samsung didn’t include crap unless you paid for their service portals. But, what they had behind the pay wall was often fairly detailed with tear down instructions and even full details of circuit boards including each pinout and often even flow charts for diagnostic steps making diagnostics almost dummy proof.
LG would even put on training and we’d get full inch to inch and a half booklets full of service details for a line of their products.
I still would never buy an LG appliance though. There was a reason they had to provide so many service details. Their appliances might have some fancy cushy innovations. But what good are these fancy features when your fridge doesn’t cool?
Yeah that’s exactly the problem. I don’t want to pay for access to a service portal to repair my appliance. I’m not a shop, I’m just some person with a busted washing machine. Just sell me the service manual as a pdf (or even better just give it to me since I already gave you a shitload of money for an appliance)
And realistically since 2010 basically all appliances have moved heavily towards digital controls. Microcontrollers everywhere. You can still get stuff without touch controls (for now, even though it’s objectively worse for the disabled it’s easier to clean, “in” with current design trends, and most importantly it’s cheaper to manufacture at scale)
Eh. I own a few old tools with manuals, and they actually have diagrams of the inner workings together with part numbers, some even have electrical diagrams with resistor values etc. All of the newer tools have a tiny useless “visit this website for more information” and 50% of the time it’s some bs about errors 1-10: restart device, 10-20 please contact a technician because opening the tool voids your warranty. I know dipshit, I don’t care about warranty cause I need the tool now or tomorrow, not in 3 months when you tell me it’s “unserviceable” or “uneconomical to repair” and I have to buy a new one.
I agree with the fact that there are not thorough diagrams with part numbers and wirijg diagrams like there used to be. A part of it is the fault of the manufacturer, and a part of it is just the way things are made now. Circuit boards are not as simple as they once were to include comprehensive wiring diagrams. They could absolutely break the modules into different boards and label the boards with different part numbers, so rather than replacing a resistor you’d just have to replace that board. It’s also not clear to me how many people actually have a comprehensive understanding of the item being sold.
But there is the obvious fact that companies want you to buy another one and not repair it. It’s often cheaper for them to not repair the product themselves, and just replace the entire unit. They dont keep a surplus of parts for repairs, nor do they want to spend the man power troubleshooting and fixing the issue. It’s just cheaper to replace it entirely. If they themselves will just replace rather than repair why would they bother keeping detailed documentation. If anyone cared for the enviornment more than money, they’d probably do it. But we all know how that goes.
I would also add that even previously they were prioritizing money. It was just cheaper for them to make it repairable, especially if they are going to offer some sort of warranty. It was also good for business since it made customers happy. I think at some point it became cheaper to do it the way we do now
LMBO, and sometimes it does come with a service manual, but you have to take the machine apart to find it like with my Samsung Washing machine
RTFM is an obnoxious retort for people, arguably in community, not to engage with a member of the community. I don’t mind reading the manual, but perhaps you can point me to where in the manual I could get further insight.
Reading a manual is also a skill. Being able to compartmentalize manual info into buckets of “obvious and I don’t need to read on”, “could be helpful”, “interesting, but it gets there I ain’t touching it” takes either training or just getting lucky after a certain number of reps.
Writing a manual is also a skill so starting with good ones help a lot.
RTFM is an obnoxious retort for people, arguably in community, not to engage with a member of the community.
I think there’s a low level of “How do I figure this out?” [generic] in which its good advice to ask “Does it say anything about this in the manual?” before you try and tear into a system as a third party giving advice.
I also think “I read the manual on my refrigerator” is some “I dare you to prove me wrong” horseshit. On the one hand, people don’t do this for a reason. Refrigerators simply aren’t that complicated to use. And the manual is rarely a smooth read, even for professionals. So its good advice, but not practical advice, better than half the time.
Reading a manual is also a skill. Being able to compartmentalize manual info into buckets of “obvious and I don’t need to read on”, “could be helpful”, “interesting, but it gets there I ain’t touching it” takes either training or just getting lucky after a certain number of reps.
Also, just a matter of free time and mental calories to burn. And hey, maybe if you’re a hobbyist who is hip deep in your Linux kernel because you eat this shit up, its the place you should have started. But also, Jesus Christ, maybe I just want a Mint instance to run a Jellyfin server. I’m not trying to get my master’s degree in this shit.
Your second point is pretty much the most important skill learned in a humanities PhD, how to make your own learning path and learn what you need to know and what you should avoid.
This is the only comment I’ve seen in here that I’ve seen address this. The whole concept of RTFM is reactionary and ridiculous. That kind of thinking and behavior kept me at arm’s length from the Linux/tech community for many years. Still kinda does.
I’ve been using Linux for about a year now, I have no clue what is even in /usr/bin …you people have manuals?! I needed a manual to find the thing.
it is where all the binaries (programs) live (that are not system critical, those would be in sbin). so whenever you execute ls? it is actually /usr/bin/ls and so on and so forth.
then there is the “man” command. basically a manual. you can use it to find out stuff about other commands and such by just typing “man [command]” for example “man ls”
edit: this knowledge has NOT been acquired by RTFM but rather by watching YouTube
Thanks that’s a massive help, I’m usually just searching around GitHub, forums and YouTube for info, literally never used the man command.
you may or may not need to install it first, depending on wether your distro ships it by default. for how to install it you should open your distros wiki in your browser
Just type in man <your binary> to go through the binary manual, also called man page :)
copypasta levels
Part of the fun of buying a game was getting to RTFM on the way home.
After a while it’s basically muscle memory so you don’t have to go digging as much. OpenBSD’s are my favorite. So well-written.
Yea I run OpenBsd on my VPS. So much nicer than having to wonder where this particular Linux distro decided to keep this particular config file.
I hardly think memorizing every useless fact in a manual and blowing the technician is the best way to learn. In Linux I encounter problems and seek the answers then I know how to apply this knowledge in the future. This isn’t dynastic China where we must memorize the five great books (/usr/bin, fridge, stove, furnace, and the analects) in order to progress in life.
