• rustyfish@piefed.worldEnglish
    121·
    2 个月前

    You should see it this way: Look at our world. Look at the bad things. Look at the horrific things. God lets all those things happen AND he wants his dick sucked as if he doing jack shit is a good thing.

    Go to hell. Be a rebel. Be proud of it.

    • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
      60·
      2 个月前

      You don’t understand, all that suffering and all those dead babies are part of His plaaaaaaan. How can you even have morals without believing in god, please excuse the piles of dead babies.

      • frog@feddit.uk
        29·
        2 个月前

        Dead babies?

        “God works in mysterious ways.”

        “Trust God’s plan.”

        “Everything happens for a reason.”

        “You have to have faith.”

        “We should pray.”

        “He is testing our faith, like the book of Job.”

        These are the bullshit answers they give us because they don’t really have an answer.

        And when something good happens what do they say?

        “God is good!”

        “Praise the Lord!”

        Look, believe in God all you want but when someone pisses on you, don’t call it rain.

        Have a meaningful conversation of how an all powerful, good God can allow so much suffering. Either he isn’t good or he isn’t powerful.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          2 个月前

          Have a meaningful conversation of how an all-powerful, good God can allow so much suffering.

          Evolution is driven by adversity. Organisms experience stress, seek to relieve themselves of that stress, and improve upon their function iteratively over billions of years.

          Pain is a form of information which gives an organism an imperative to change. And with a great number of organisms, you will necessarily have a great deal of suffering. But without that pain, you lose the incentive to change. The end result is stagnation and decay. A lack of pain isn’t joy, it’s numbness. A lack of adversity does not imply triumph but inertia. What you’re asking for isn’t a Utopia, it’s the heat death of the universe.

    • gibmiser@lemmy.world
      10·
      2 个月前

      Yeah, God is kinda an asshole, and if hes not, and hes worried about our opinions of him he really needs to work on his messaging and explaining why stuff has to be so shitty. Being God and all I imagine that isn’t beyond his abilities…

      You know, assuming he existed…

      • zedgeist@lemmy.world
        2·
        2 个月前

        I kinda want a t-shirt with that on it. I wonder how many pity speeches it would get for me from Christians…

    • Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
      4·
      2 个月前

      The worst people in this world don’t think about these things. They are the ones in “heaven”.

      If that’s the company in heaven, it sounds fucking awful.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      2 个月前

      Look at our world. Look at the bad things. Look at the horrific things. God lets all those things happen

      Literally the Al Pacino line while he’s trying to convince his son to fuck his sister.

      Go to hell. Be a rebel. Be proud of it.

      I would simply break the Cycle of Samsara and rejoin the Cosmic Singularity by freeing myself from materialistic desire.

  • red_tomato@lemmy.world
    68·
    2 个月前

    When the Christian friend convinces you into religion, but it turns out God hates belief in false gods more than non-belief (you picked the wrong religion).

    • kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world
      19·
      2 个月前

      you picked the wrong religion

      There is no way that most people didn’t pick the correct religion. Even if all Christians were “correct” enough to get to heaven regardless of denomination, that still leaves 71%+ of the world who aren’t Christians. And that is best case scenario as Christians are the largest religious group by population in the world currently. And even within the Christian community, there are plenty of in-groups and out-groups that consider one another to be cultish and blasphemy. No matter what you are betting, your chances aren’t great and the majority of the world is still “wrong” and will face whatever consequences come with that fact.

      Personally, I’m happy to just not believe rather than to force myself to conform to some oppressive dogma, dump my time and money into a church, and live with shame just to hedge my bets for what would still be bad odds anyway.

      • zloubida@sh.itjust.works
        9·
        2 个月前

        It always impresses me how Christianity = evangelicalism in the mind of most Lemmynauts. Outside evangelicalism (and even partly within evangelicalism), going to hell or heaven has nothing to do with being theologically correct or not. I mean, even the Catholic church, which is both by far the biggest one and absolutely not one of the most open ones states with an absolute clarity that non-Christians can go to heaven too.

        • kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world
          7·
          2 个月前

          Catholics do not believe that non-Christians go to heaven. Best case scenario, righteous unbelievers go to purgatory. Same with unbaptised babies.

          Also, I grew up going to baptist and pentecostal churches. They 1000% do not think my atheist ass is getting into heaven no matter how righteous I am, even though I got baptized for that matter. Unless I repent at the 11th hour and “accept Jesus into my heart as my savior,” anyway. There are certainly plenty denominations that are not all about preaching “hellfire for the unbeliever”, but even plenty of those still believe that is true even if they’re not boasting about it. There are some that allow for people to be saved through ignorance of Jesus (which makes missionary work kind of fucked up when you think about it that way). But even that is not the norm.

          Jesus’ sacrifice saving humanity from eternal damnation is a key tenet of nearly all denominations. And most of them also say that you need to actually accept it and turn your life over to him to qualify for the get out of Hell free card.

          Source: 37 years of life in the Bible belt as both an active churchgoer and apostate.

          • zloubida@sh.itjust.works
            6·
            2 个月前

            Purgatory is a step that leads to heaven, not a final destination. It’s a step that a lot of Catholics will have to take too, according to the catholic church so it’s not something that separates believers and non-believers.

            Baptism and Pentecostalism are categories of evangelicalism. So yeah, they believe that. But they’re a minority within Christianity.

            Jesus’ sacrifice saving humanity from eternal damnation is a key tenet of nearly all denominations.

            Yes.

            And most of them also say that you need to actually accept it and turn your life over to him to qualify for the get out of Hell free card.

            No. Only in evangelicalism.

            • Rothe@piefed.socialEnglish
              3·
              2 个月前

              No. Only in evangelicalism.

              That is not true. Lots of Christian denominations believe that as well. Most of them in fact. You are just Americentric in your belief that Evangelicalism is automatically meant, when that is not really a large denomination outside of the US.

              • zloubida@sh.itjust.works
                1·
                2 个月前

                I’m not American. I know no denomination outside evangelicalism which teach that. And in France, even evangelicals does not teach that for a large part. Catholicism does not. Mainline Protestantism does not. I don’t know well Eastern Orthodoxy, but as far as I know, they do not either.

              • zloubida@sh.itjust.works
                2·
                2 个月前

                Yeah, that’s what cults do. I’m very sorry, and happy for you you found a way out. It’s better to be an atheist than jailed in a cult, and I know God will understand.

            • Mulligrubs@lemmy.worldEnglish
              2·
              2 个月前

              No. Only in evangelicalism.

              False, not only in evangelicalism. The words of Jesus Christ disagree with you. Do you need me to quote the “Narrow Gate” to you? You should be very familiar with it if you’ve read the Bible.

            • Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org
              1·
              2 个月前

              I was grown myself as a Catholic. And no, what you’re saying is false.

              It might be sort of the “official stance”, even though contradicted from one document to another (in the catechism it says that not believing is a cardinal sin, for example, which means that just by consistently refusing to believe, you go to hell, for example), but even if so, most of practitioners just believe that atheist or agnostig = dangerous, criminal, ill and will and SHOULD go to hell, and even worse if you critisize religion.

              • zloubida@sh.itjust.works
                1·
                2 个月前

                It will depend on your parish. Catholicism is not a monolith. But the Catechism is clear :

                [2125] Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the virtue of religion. The imputability of this offense can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances. “Believers can have more than a little to do with the rise of atheism. To the extent that they are careless about their instruction in the faith, or present its teaching falsely, or even fail in their religious, moral, or social life, they must be said to conceal rather than to reveal the true nature of God and of religion.”

                Atheism is taught to be very serious, but the circumstances have to be taken into account. People reject the Church because the believers fail in their mission, either because they wrongly teach or because of their actions which contradict the teaching. In this case, the imputability of the sin of atheism is diminished, so it’s not anymore a cardinal sin. God only can make the difference.

                I’m no Catholic myself, but their teaching is clear. That members of the Church believe differently, especially in America where Evangelicalism seems to have win the religious cultural war is not surprising, but the teaching stays.

                Edit : I may be wrong, as always, but show me one Catholic official text that says that atheists go directly to hell, without the same kind of limitation as the Catechism. I think I’ll wait a long time.

                But that doesn’t negate what you experienced as a child. It’s just that these people were not in accordance to the actual objective Catholic teaching, just like JD Vance. Religion in America is sick, and evangelicalism is the cause.

        • Duamerthrax@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          2 个月前

          I’m old enough to remember when kids started taking their new flip phones to public school and secretly recording their teachers berating their muslim or atheist students. The recordings stopped when teachers realized any student could be recording any conversation.

          I’m also coded enough that bigots test the waters with me to see what I’ll agree with. I don’t exactly trust quiet christians. They’re very polite when they assume you’re also religious and things can go quickly downhill if they find out you’re not.

        • Mulligrubs@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          2 个月前

          Sure they do! That’s because they’ve become more moderate over the centuries in their long decline since The Great Mortality. This allows them to continue their parasitic ways in a secular society.

          However, they spent many more centuries claiming the exact opposite, because the Bible says that most will burn in Hell. Repeatedly. Throughout.

          The “absolute clarity” is in direct opposition to what they falsely claim is The Word of God. It’s absolutely clear that they are a cancer on the Earth.

          • zloubida@sh.itjust.works
            1·
            2 个月前

            Wrong. But I had this discussion with evangelicals 1000 hundred times it’s not interesting anymore. I’ll begin by citing theologians like Aquinas (13th century), you’ll answer saying “meh don’t care it’s not in the Bible” or, if you studied theology (but you probably didn’t), citing the one big exception, Augustine (which still wrote that God’s mysterious grace could be greater than what he himself thought). But with that I will have proved that no, it’s not a recent evolution of Christian theology, but something the churches hold still the beginning, with exceptions.

            Then I’ll cite Romans 2:12-16, Luke 12:47-48, Matthew 25:31-46 or Acts 10:34-35, and you’ll do mental gymnastics that will grant you a place in the coming Olympics to reconcile this with the idea that only Christians are saved, using texts like John 3:18. And I’ll say, yes, the Bible contradicts itself on this subject like on most others, but my position is better established and coherent with the global message of the Bible, the church history, and the reason, while yours is not. And you’ll be shocked : “what? You don’t believe in biblical inerrancy? You’re not a Christian!” and I’ll answer “okay, bro”, like I do with disrespectful people on the net.

            And we will both have lost a lot of time, and you will have push more people to hate Christ while you will feel oh so righteous.

            • Mulligrubs@lemmy.worldEnglish
              1·
              2 个月前

              You’re wrong, according to the Bible itself, repeatedly throughout. Anyone who’s read it knows that you’re wrong.

              I have over 12 years of daily Bible studies, and don’t care if you took a theology college course(s), or even if you were a Catholic priest, or whatever your education was.

              I’ll cite Matthew 25:46, too. It says “eternal punishment” for a reason (and also John 3:18 of course)… and “the righteous” is clearly defined… also, Isaiah 66:24, Matthew 13:50, Mark 9:42, Luke 13:3 and 16:23, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Revelation 21:8, and on and on and on and on, there are many more.

              Also, recall the words of Jesus Himself, which disagree with you. The gate is narrow, and few will find it. I won’t even get into original sin here, there’s no need.

              Re Aquinas… he’s not relevant to this discussion, I’m not talking medieval philosophers, but the Bible.

              Thank you for making up claims about my possible responses, as this clearly shows that you’re not really interested in an actual discussion, and would instead prefer to babble your lazy imagining as if it were applicable. All of your assumptions about me are wrong, your strawman arguments are wrong, and you are wrong.

              If you consider this a waste of time, be silent. I quite enjoy it.

              As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. ~Proverbs 26:11

      • HostilePasta@lemmy.ml
        2·
        2 个月前

        I’m not sure I’ll ever get over how arrogant and simple-minded Pascal’s Wager is. The whole premise is either Christianity or nothing; it doesn’t account for any other religion. I just find it hilarious.

    • Nalivai@lemmy.world
      10·
      2 个月前

      There is only one guy who guessed correct religion after particularly vivid mushroom trip, but he’s still in hell because he started doing correct things for the wrong motivation.

  • 0x0@lemmy.zip
    46·
    2 个月前

    Someone elsewhere said if you need religion to be a good person you’re just a bad person on a leash.

    • SnarkoPolo@lemmy.world
      13·
      2 个月前

      That is Christian doctrine. “The sinful nature of man.” IOW in the evangelical world view, we all need that leash or we’d all be, well, like American evangelicals.

    • Jyek@sh.itjust.works
      3·
      2 个月前

      I’d rather them be a bad person on a leash than a bad person off the leash

      Edit: this was not meant as a serious take or anything. Just playing with the anecdote.

      • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
        3·
        2 个月前

        On the one hand, I agree. But on the other hand, that leash has led to pretty bad places many times over the centuries. I’ve come to believe that there’s some truth to the “humans are kinda shit” premise of Christianity, just that sometimes it redirects that shittiness and other times it directs it (or individuals do in its name, since Christianity itself isn’t an entity).

        I have no idea if humanity would be better off with or without religion. I don’t need it personally but others having it might make everyone’s lives better simply because they don’t think they can get away with some things so don’t try them.

  • whotookkarl@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    25·
    2 个月前

    Doesn’t matter because that’s the western Orthodox baptist second reformed heaven and you were a heathen western Orthodox baptist first reformed

  • ceenote@lemmy.world
    24·
    2 个月前

    Just pull the ole’, “Look! A distraction!” and disappear into the billions-strong crowd stuck in the same boat.

  • TransNeko@lemmy.world
    22·
    2 个月前

    Nazis, Israeli abominations, and christian pedophiles go to heaven… why the fuck would I want to go to heaven and be stuck with them for eternity?

          • Uruanna@lemmy.world
            3·
            2 个月前

            Same place all the preachers had to go to answer all the people who kept asking this exact question. They made it up with the only excuse that would get everyone to shut up. It’s not from anywhere.

            • kestrel7_7@lemmy.world
              1·
              2 个月前

              Well of course none of it is real, but you can still track the origins of specific theological ideas/beliefs from the various individual authors, councils, etc.

    • III@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      2 个月前

      Have you tried blaspheming against the holy spirit, that fake piece of shit?.. Let’s see God forgive that.

  • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
    9·
    2 个月前

    Jokes on you, my plan all along was to tempt you away from God to secure a better position in Hell, as is the secret motivation of all atheists. Muahahaha!

    • daannii@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5·
      2 个月前

      It’s like a reward program/pyramid scheme. The more people you recruit , the more they recruit and you end up at the top of your own pyramid of damnation.

      • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
        5·
        2 个月前

        Look, is it a pyramid scheme? Sure, maybe. But trying to pick the right religion to get into heaven, and even then there’s no guarantee, that’s like playing the lottery. You’re better off signing up now and getting a better spot in the pyramid.