My go-to example for this is Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Season one is overall quite rough, however s01e19 “Duet” (second-to-last episode of the season) is IMO the first episode that shows true glimmers of promise. In season two the series starts to find its footing, by season three it’s proven itself to be Star Trek gold, and then the series manages to maintain its quality through to its seventh and final season.
Season 1 of DS9 was rough? Cries in TNG… 🤣
It is rough compared to the later stuff but, man, it got off to a WAY better start than TNG did… I mean, Riker had to grow a beard for the show to get good!
Sisko’s beard also improved DS9
He also had reverse Samson syndrome, had to lose his hair to gain power.
Very true!
IMO DS9’s s1 is way worse than TNG’s, but that might be because TNG has a nostalgia factor for me from watching random episodes as a kid, and so by the time I did a full start-to-finish watch-thru I already knew the characters well and understood that the series would get better, whereas I was an adult when I first watched DS9 and went into it completely blind (after watching the first two-parter episode I nearly cried, because I was on a mission to watch all of the 20th century Star Treks, and there were seven seasons of this to slog through!? And now it’s my favorite Star Trek series of all time.)
I think you mean episode 18, that one is the second-to-last of the season.
And that is exactly the episode I was thinking of, too. I didn’t know which episode number it was, I just remember when I was watching DS9, there was an episode with the filing clerk, and I thought, “Oh, this show is actually going to be great if it stays like this.” I just looked it up on IMDB, and it’s S1 E18.
Apparently it depends on whether you consider the series premiere as one episode or two; Wikipedia (which I used for reference) lists it as two separate episodes, providing a total s1 episode count of 20, vs imdb which lists it as one single episode, providing a total s1 episode count of 19. Memory Alpha lists the episode as s1e19, and I’m inclined to trust those nerds. At any rate I edited my comment to include the episode title for clarity.
Regardless, yeah, I think it’s probably a turning point episode for a lot of folks, and it’s the first of many war introspection episodes that help make the series timeless.
Oh, interesting. I’d go with Memory Alpha too, then. But yeah, definitely a pivot point in the series, and the first one that really took the post-war setting seriously.
Parks & Recs season one was pretty different from the rest of the show - not necessarly bad, just different, e.g. several popular characters didn’t exist yet. TBH I don’t remember when exactly they introduced substantial changes, but I think it was the start of season two.
I feel like season one was trying too hard to be The Office, and then in season two it sheds that to become its own entity. I’ve heard that the writers sincerely considered s1’s less-than-stellar critical response and made changes to s2 accordingly (e.g. making Leslie Knope more likable and less dumb). It’s definitely a “don’t judge it until you’ve gotten at least part way through season two” series.
Most people say the start of Season 3 as Mark is off the show at the end of season 2 and Chris and Ben become full time characters, but the first Tammy episode is in season 2 so that’s my vote. It’s just too damn funny to pass over.
The Venezuela sister city episode season 2 episode 5 is where it showed its true potential.
The humor lands, the characters have some consistency, and the vibe is consistent with the rest of the show. Yes, it was firing on all cylinders with Ben and Chris, but this episode is where it showed its stuff.
If you disagree, right to jail. Right away. No trial, no nothing. I have the best opinion… because of jail.
Disagree? Straight to jail.
Agree, but so strongly it seems rehearsed? Surprisingly, also jail.
We have the best agreements in the world, because of jail.
Parks & Recs is a very typical show that evolves from edgy comedy into feel-good romcom. American The Office did the same, Schitt’s Creek did the same, Superstore did it. At this point I’m not even sure if it’s by accident (the shows responding to what the audience wants) or if it’s by design (“let’s make typical show that goes from edgy to romcom”).
New girl did it too
Its because writing jokes forever gets harder and harder with every new season
But any old chump can write the characters falling in love and having their goals come to fruition and blah blah
I think it’s also because quirky characters get boring fast. So you can either keep making everyone crazier and crazier (like Veep or Archer) or you pivot into a romcom.
Archer was great for the “let’s start of the rails and see how far we can get from them” factor
That’s a crazy point. Huh. Yeah I can’t think of any examples of that kind of show that doesn’t besides the absolute unit that is Always Sunny.
Season 2, Episode 23 is the “real” start of the show IMHO. It’s the episode where Chris and Ben arrive, Mark takes a job somewhere else, and the gang celebrates April’s 21st birthday at the Snakehole Lounge. Also, most of the show’s eventual couples are also paired up in that episode - Leslie/Ben, Ann/Chris, April/Andy, and even Tom/Lucy.
Both Parks&Rec and Office were kinda rough in S1 and got significantly better is S2 I think.
i saw some clips of that show, went to watch it, and realised the rest of the epilodes were just padding around the clip-worthy stuff. it was so hollow.
I found that it had a lot of substance. Great show.
BoJack Horseman. I don’t have an exact episode for you, but the first few seem to be mostly world building and introducing a few themes that will come back later. Later half of s1 is where it starts to get good, and with s2 the show “properly” starts.
Episode 8, The Telescope.
I can narrow it down to one line, too. When Herb tells BoJack, “I don’t forgive you.” It flouted the usual sitcom formula, and marked a turn to more complex characters and darker themes.
I think the comedy and overall quality of the early episodes is pretty solid, making those not bad episodes per se but rather deceptive ones. I personally enjoyed how the series takes its time in settling into its drama, and suspect it was an intentional metaphor for how the surface glitz and glamour of Hollywood obscures its dark underbelly.
Hmmm, that would make another good asklemmy thread: series with deceptive beginnings that obscure their true genre…
Yeah, there are some solid jokes in the early episodes, such as the paparazzi being unable to blackmail Bojack, because he’s too nihilistic, depressed, and numb to care.
And I also like the more subtle ones, such as Diane having one decent sibling, and he’s literally the black sheep of the family.
Must have been after I lost interest. I had always heard great things, but only made it a few episodes in.
I tried the first episode and it just felt depressing, not funny at all. Never looked back.
It’s depressing in a good way. It handles the telling of depression as a central theme really well. But holy fuck does “The View from Halfway Down” (towards the end of the series) really make it uncomfortable in this regard. Do not watch it unless you’re prepared for an overload of self reflection and existential dread.
well it is about mental health disorders…handles it really well imo.
Which is why I appreciate this thread, knowing that it gets better will help me give it another chance.
The Good Place really takes off at the end of the first season.
Personally I consider The Good Place one of the rare shows that is solid all the way through without a single bad or weak episode, however the end of season one is certainly where it goes from great to fantastic.
For me, the twist at the end of season one retroactively makes the rest of season one better
alsimoneau figured it out? That’s a new low…
Ted Danson’s reaction to that scene is too perfect… That one hurts
No way. Episode one was a banger.
American Dad is a fantastically funny show, but season 1 is basically unwatchable. Season 2 is a mixed bag. I’d recommend people just start watching from season 3 onward and only check out the earlier episodes as a curiosity.
I remember watching American Dad’s premiere and being excited for the concept but disappointed by the execution. You can tell there’s aspiration to be a good parody of the contemporary political climate in the first episode, but iirc it’s undermined by its crassness.
The Orville also struggled to get its footing in the early episodes; maybe Seth MacFarlane just does better once his series gets established?
I think they struggled early on for different reasons.
American Dad was too laser focused on being a political satire show and I just don’t think the writers were equipped to write a good political show. It just comes off as angry and with unlikable characters. Once it loosened up a little bit, having that political satire premise as a foundation gives the characters a baseline to work from and they all feel distinct because of it.
The Orville feels like Seth didn’t want to make a comedy. It feels to me like he just wanted to make Star Trek, but because he’s “a comedy guy” a lot of the humor, especially early on felt like it was put in to meet some expectation of Fox that a Seth show be a comedy.
I forgot the exact episode, but I felt The Expanse was pretty mediocre until one of the last episodes of S1. I stuck with it because I was told prior to starting that it takes a while to get going. I’m glad I stuck with it, as it’s my favorite sci-fi show.
For me its’ the opposite, it started strong (complex politics, realistic space travel) and by the end it turned into just another space opera about hardy space ship crew fighting space battles.
Damn, I watched the first two seasons before moving and never got around to finishing but those things were exactly what I was into. I thought the interplanetary politics were awesome
From what I understand there’s a lot of material from the books that didn’t make it into the show. I bet the politics were more extensive too.
The authors actually have cameos in the show. They were very involved in its conception and making. The books had a lot more details, little sub-stories, etc. The show made a few substantial changes, but IMHO they all made for better TV (like making Arwin a major character in Jackson’s LotR).
Fun fact: the authors initially intended for The Expanse to be a table top game.
Expanse is a slow burn start. I personally think it was great from the start but will tell anyone to watch at least until E3 or 4 (episode called CQB). At that point if you don’t want to keep watching it’s likely not a good fit.
Yes absolutely 100%. That is my usual advice as well. If you get through episode 4 and you aren’t completely fucking hooked you might as well shut off the tv and sit in the dark and question your life choices.
Yeah, I was about halfway through S1 and I was thinking “why do people rave about this show?”
Also glad I stuck with it.
Puella Magi Madoka Magica. Starts like the average random magical girl anime until episode 3, then suddenly deconstructs everything giving you an amazing whiplash. I had to beg a friend of mine to watch until ep3 because he absolutely could not stomach the first episode. He thanked me later
Madoka is like a blend of Sailor Moon, Made in Abyss and a drop of LSD for the artists
Every one I have forced to sit through the first 3 episodes of Red Dwarf has gone on to watch every episode and now incorporates quotes from the show in normal conversation.
That’s because there are no bad episodes of Red Dwarf
Idk they had me from episode 1. Best episode though imo is tikka to ride
They’re all dead
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. had to vamp for too long before “Turn, Turn, Turn” but it got better and better the loopier it got, and the farther from the canon universe. And yet it’s worth watching the early eps because things are set in place that the show runners fulfill later. In some cases much much later, and in some very satisfying ways.
I loved the second half of season 1 of that show, but then I hated season 2 so much that I refused to watch any more of it.
You should try Season 3, see if you still hate it
Perhaps someday, I will introspect to find that the name Daisy Johnson no longer makes me break out in hives.
You should do a reverse one lol. For me that would be family guy: first few seasons are funny af then…a very steep drop
This is called “Jumping the Shark” after a Happy Days episode where The Fonz literally jumps a shark while water-skiing, and the show was mostly downhill in quality there and after.
The opposite, and an answer to OP’s question is “Growing the Beard” due to Star Trek: The Next Generation’s apparent increase in quality after Will Riker grew a beard.
Encounter At Farpoint was a fine pilot episode, and I’m tired of pretending its not.
Nice love the beard
For me, it was the Big Bang Theory. The first two seasons were great, third season was good, fourth season was kinda meh, and I stopped watching partway through the fifth season. From what I gathered, as the show gained popularity, they changed it from being a show for nerds, to being for “normal” people who know a nerd.
Characters strayed too far from who they were so that everyone would have their happily ever after.
I wish I’d stopped watching The Walking Dead partway through season 5, whenever Rick and friends arrive at Alexandria, but before they go inside.
Sure, there’s plenty of good episodes/moments afterward, but without spoiling anything, that’s also when a lot of the show’s bullshit really ramps up.
Same for Game of Thrones
I remembered Game of Thrones being fun to watch but my memory severely downplayed the quality due to how the end went. I picked up Season 1 dirt-cheap at a thrift store and rewatched it. Gods, it was good then…
Go watch the one with brett.Kavanaugh it’s great
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Succession really hit home for me when I realized that every single main character in the show is just awful. I kept trying and failing to find the one I should have sympathy for.
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Huh. I never made it through season one because I just couldn’t stand every character, and didn’t want to keep spending time with them.
I loved it from Episode 1.
Not TV, but I’ve told people to skip the first two books in the Discworld series, Sir Terry doesn’t really get into his stride till a little later, but book three is where his talent starts to shine.
Yeah, though even then there’s a lot of growth. Comparing The Theif of Time, Thud, or I Shall Wear Midnight to Sourcery just feels unfair to the latter.
Or start with Small Gods, everyone who likes discworld likes Small Gods. It stands alone, it’s clever, but has some of the early book style, and it’s regularly referenced by the fans.
Letterkenny, I think it gets good around the end of season 1 or beginning of 2. You still have to watch the first episodes to get an idea of who everyone is and their relationships though. Might have to do with just how strange the characters are in this random small town in Canada. It’s pretty tough at first, but once you get to the end of the first season, something clicks and the show becomes pretty hilarious.
I was hooked from the first episode
Jericho only lasted 29 episodes, and while I enjoyed them all (plus the graphic novels that continued the story), I will admit it had a shaky start.
It was a mid-2000s CBS show, so it had to appeal to a wide audience, the kind who’d tune in to CBS of all networks during primetime. The show’s overall premise had me hooked, but some of the side plots and characters are… distracting, early on.
Most people agree that the show picks up steam partway through the first season, though I haven’t seen a consensus about a particular episode. My pick though, episode 7, “Long Live the Mayor”.
I came here to say Jericho, second last episode of S1.
Braking Bad, after 5th or 6th episode.
Season 2 was such a drag though. I love the Vince universe but I almost dropped it after spending months to get through S2. Then it actually got good and Better Call Saul is one of my favourite shows of all time now.
Took me a few times to get into BCS, even after loving Breaking Bad. Eventually, it did take the top spot between the two, but it’s such a slow burn. Plus all the stuff with his brother just annoyed the hell out of me.
Michael McKean kept me on board. He played it so perfectly.
