The China-centric video sharing platform is expanding with a new international app and an English version of its website – with no identity verification (for now at least)

    • artifex@piefed.zipOP
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      2 months ago

      Considering how much damage Google et al do, I legitimately wonder whether China could even do worse, and I’m not even a tankie.

      • EliteCloneMike@lemmy.zip
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        2 months ago

        Not terribly interested in this video platform as I also don’t use YouTube. I really hope Google gets broken up and I don’t like them harvesting my data and selling it to the US Government any more than I like companies like Bytedance selling my data to the Chinese Government. I am in the US and think we should have established data privacy and data protection laws long before things got to the point they have gotten too.

      • Siegfried@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Don’t fall for the proximity bias, china is decades ahead on surveillance and stepping on personal rights. They act as a hive. They care more for what they believe that are they nationals and may look harmless to us non-chinese… but i do fear them.

        In any case, I dont see them pressing a button to launch swarms of AI commanded drones to kill every person on a partially AI generated list that they probably already have in their hands, right now… i leave that dystopia to israel alone.

      • Fizz@lemmy.nz
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        2 months ago

        China makes palantir look like freedom respecting software.

      • Zorque@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        As far as I’m aware, google isn’t enacting a genocide… as far as I’m aware

      • Natanael@infosec.pub
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        2 months ago

        Yes they could, but it’s really a question of their incentives. They could easily use it to manipulate elections, etc. The biggest danger is probably to East Asia where China is trying to claim most of the ocean, using it to copy what US Republicans has been doing with Facebook and Twitter to support attacks on politicians opposing them. See also how Facebook ignored its role in the Myanmar genocide

    • Zedd_Prophecy@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Sure, but I’d rather have my info safely offshore in China than to give it right to big brother. I also bet far far fewer ads and more fun commercials because you have no idea what they are about. They are currently destoyjng the natural order in printer ink. I support that wholeheartedly. My Epson inks are 90 and the knockoffs are 20 and work just as well. It’s always temporarily beneficial when player 2 enters the market.

      *Edit it does not like vpns. That’s a no for me.

    • stumu415@lemmy.zip
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      2 months ago

      Same old shit, different day. Can’t you find anything original? Post something negative about ICE on YouTube or something negative about Israel.

      I got perma banned from reddit because of my comment that all the ICE traitors will never get their sign on bonus - which they haven’t - and after this is all over, they will have to go back to sucking immigrant cock behind the dollar store.

      So don’t talk to me about propaganda and censorship. Western tech companies are just as bad if not worse. Especially Twitter or X or Y or whatever that shit is called, doesn’t know the first thing about free speech. Not that surprising if the owner does a Hitler salute.

      Edit: one last thing. How much better is the American TikTok after it was taken over by another right wing company? Yeah, I thought so.

        • stumu415@lemmy.zip
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          2 months ago

          So should an article about a Chinese app not automatically get the ‘Tiananmen square’ response. Or any article about China for that matter. Like a Pavlov reaction.

      • hirihit640@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        The scale is different. There are tons of videos on social media right now that are thinly veiled instructions on how to destroy flock cameras. Something like that would NOT fly in china.

  • Ex Nummis@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Hey, I welcome any serious competition. Youtube has devolved into a much more censored platform than what we used to make fun of the Chinese for. “Unalive”, “grape”, and several topics that are demonetized on sight.

    • arindam@feddit.online
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      2 months ago

      I found clip.place , a peertube instance really good alternative to YouTube. I am sure there are others.

      • Osan@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Thing is peertube is still pretty much new and empty. I didn’t find much content that I would be interested in or even an interesting community. Although I see its potential as a social platform I don’t think it will ever replace YouTube (at least for me) as it wouldn’t give creators the financial incentive to use it.

        • Goodeye8@piefed.social
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          2 months ago

          YouTube barely gives a financial incentive for most creators, that’s why most of them take sponsorship deals and/or use Patreon.

          • pikl@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            YouTube payout for creators is %55 of ad revenue generated per video.

            PeerTube payout for creators is the ability to add a donation button on your page.

            You ain’t got to lie Craig.

            • Pixel_Jock_17@piefed.ca
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              2 months ago

              Tbh as someone who wouldn’t be in it for the money PeerTube seems awesome. And if you were in it for the money, imagine being like the first big channel on there? You’d probably really do well.

            • Goodeye8@piefed.social
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              2 months ago

              Do you understand what “barely” means? I didn’t say no financial incentive, I said barely. And Youtube taking almost half of your ad revenue (which itself is pocket change unless you’re a channel focused on investing, law, software development or real estate or you’re a channel regularly making over 100k videos) is barely a financial incentive. People complain about Valve taking 30% from game sales and Youtube takes 45%.

              But you are correct in the sense that you can still make decent money with Youtube ads. But to make worthwhile money you need to make videos in the niches advertisers like, target an audience advertisers like (almost exclusively English speaking audience) and make videos that make at least over 1k views (which instantly puts you in the top 10% of content creators). Or be in the top 1% of content creators and average over 100k views per video. If you’re making something like gaming videos for 10k viewers Youtube pays you around $5 per video. At that point for the same video and viewers you’re probably going to make more money from the Peertube donation button than Youtube ad revenue.

              So no, I’m not lying.

        • arindam@feddit.online
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          2 months ago

          These things take time. Depends on instances. There are audience for YouTube. I am happy to bet on Peertube.

    • BzzBiotch@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      You will be invited with open arms, mr Cumfart. And then shot, of course. Can’t have any of those pesky gay ass Uyghurs turning our kids gay and Uyghur, now can we?

  • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
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    2 months ago

    People in this thread having a normal one, predictably. Like even if (or especially if) you genuinely believe that China is the evil monster you were raised to believe, wouldn’t you be at least a little bit curious to get a window into their online culture? Don’t you want an opportunity for more interaction between Chinese and US/Western netizens?

    • nullspace@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      On the one hand, Chinese companies get an unfair advantage domestically. On the other, I would love to see Google sweat.

      • vetskari@sopuli.xyz
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        2 months ago

        Literally every company is given a domestic advantage in their home country? Subsidies and visibility etc in home turf is not a new concept China has invented for their products.

        • Sharkticon@lemmy.zip
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          2 months ago

          Hell ignore that, Google helps to write us trade policies. Do people really think there’s an open free market system in America or Europe for that matter? Look at Donald Trump’s inauguration. The Peasants were kept out but all the tech bro CEOs were there. Y’all are dreaming if you think that things are fair right now. Especially if you don’t think it’s a two-way street.

    • Holytimes@sh.itjust.worksdeleted by creator
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      2 months ago

      As an American I’ve been using billibilli for a long long time as I consume a lot of Chinese media.

      Billibilli is dog shit, the company is awful, the platform is cancer, and the entire thing makes YouTube and Google look like fucking saints.

      Like holy fuck. I do not give one fucking flying piece of shit about china bad america good or any of that nonsense.

      The fucking Chinese bullshit that people have to put up with on billibilli is outright nonsense. I just want to watch my fucking silly videos and dramas.

      And all that said YouTube is ALSO dog shit with out any saving graces. It’s all fucking awful.

        • LePoisson@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I’m not the commenter you replied to but I read their view more along these lines. That no large online video provider gives a good experience and while this is more competition for YouTube it’s kind of like comparing two piles of shit - both stink.

          Which idk never used it but yeah China has its own brand of suck compared with the West. Still, I agree it’d be good to have more cultural exchange - that’s the sort of thing that over time leads to better relations between nation states and decreases the likelihood of war.

          You know the older I get, the lesson of “there are no good guys” really keeps getting hammered home. This is just a reminder of that.

          • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
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            2 months ago

            These reactions just seem a little overwrought to me. I’m sure everyone commenting watches plenty of YouTube, but the mere mention of a Chinese platform brings dire warnings and energetic condemnations. Like maybe it does suck, but most people here wouldn’t really know! That’s my point-- that it’s crazy to have such strong opinions about something that you have no experience with.

            • LePoisson@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              I get it. There’s a lot of propaganda out there (that goes both ways) about China.

              For better or worse they’re going to lead the charge into the 2100s, this is the dawn of the new Chinese century and the USA is busy handing them the reins as we implode our country.

              I think China is a little friendlier overall in their foreign relations and while freedom of expression is important I would not say their society as a whole is better or worse than all the rest of the world. It feels like sometimes, from what I’ve heard and seen, China is “more” free in certain aspects compared to the USA (and definitely less free in others)

    • PieMePlenty@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      What I believe is in freedom of the internet. As in everyone should be able to access it and no one should be able to police what is on it. Complete free flow of information. Reddit should exist in the state that it does and lemmy should be there to counter balance it and no nation state should be able to say “no, we only allow one of these”. This doesn’t undermine any existing legal frameworks mind you. For example: distribution of underage pornography is still a crime almost everywhere and those who operate such sites are fair game for prosecution.

      I get this may be too radical of an idea for some, but I truly believe education is the key to information literacy, not censorship.

        • hirihit640@sh.itjust.works
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          2 months ago

          No they don’t. If I don’t want to see what Reddit wants me to see, I just switch to Lemmy instead. Reddit cannot ban Lemmy. But if the state had censorship powers, they could ban Lemmy.

        • PieMePlenty@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I think its the same problem with the press on TV and print form. Rich individuals can buy up all press outlets and control the narrative. Its hard (and restrictive) to broadcast on TV and print. On the internet, at least the freedom to publish and access information has a low barrier to entry. A rich individual may buy one lemmy instance, can they buy them all? Can they buy its successor? The lower barrier and less restrictive nature of the internet (or how it should be) is too fast moving for them to compete imo. All the states need to do is educate people on how to consume media correctly.

          • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
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            2 months ago

            A rich individual may buy one lemmy instance, can they buy them all?

            Yes, easily. Additionally, they can control the search engines which lead there or not, the commonly used platforms for code sharing so that development is more difficult, and so forth. They have an incredible advantage through economy of scale. The barrier to entry for putting any information on the internet may not be very high, but making it findable and accessible has a very high barrier, and relies on corporate-controlled platforms.

            • PieMePlenty@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              I think the better question is will they be able to buy them all. Buying implies the other party is willing to sell.

              Its true that this information will be harder to access if not indexed properly, but word of mouth is a good backup for that. I didn’t find lemmy from google, someone (non corporate entity) posted a link to it somewhere. Now, that ‘somewhere’ may be corporate controlled and ban certain links but I’d argue that will just split the internet into two (a corporate side and “free” side) with little cooperation between them and I don’t think anyone will be able to keep people from either side - as long as the internet remains neutral.

              I think its just too hard to completely control information unless you are a nation state (and even then).

      • AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        This isn’t a new idea though, it was the “hacker” ethos of the 90s. Most nerds believed in that. But it was wrong because we do need to limit hate speech. Because racist speech is racist recruitment. And we do need to limit the influence of plutocrats and corporations on information.

        I also believe neoliberalism is a failed and genocidal ideology that should similarly be banned like advocating for fascism.

        Like the other commenter pointed out the other problem is the massive power imbalance. They have billions and they crush us. It doesn’t matter if something is right or wrong if billions are spend to hire the smartest sociopaths to craft an ad or PR campaign to emotionally manipulate the masses.

        And the truth matters. We have a fundamental human right to reality. Constantly amplifying bullshit for revenue makes the actual flow of important information and ideas impossible.

    • Dr. Moose@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      It’s not for us to decide that. CCP is literally holding Chinese hostage and even if this platform comes to the west the Chinese will never be allowed to mingle with us.

      I think chinese internet is very interesting and wish China would be part of global internet one day but until autocrats change their mind it’s not happening.

      • deliverer652@lemmy.today
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        2 months ago

        Literally none of what you said is true. Chinese people regularly interact with people of other countries on the global internet. its Literally impossible not to run into Chinese netizens on any major social media site.

        • Dr. Moose@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          What is not true? The great firewall of China doesnt exist? Or that few rebels with vpns that btw are constantly hunted down and ccp even inspects packets now with AI tools I identify vpn looking traffic?

          Can’t believe people justify this. You’re either a bot or a useful idiot.

      • TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        2 months ago

        You can literally just make an account on Xiaohongshu and chat with normal people in China.

        I routinely swap recipes, talk about video games, new tech, swap cleaning tips, chat about restaurant recommendations and fashion. There’s a big cultural difference, sure, but Chinese people are, on the whole, incredibly friendly and hospitable and they’re curious about breaking down the myths they’ve heard about America and happy to break down the myths we’ve heard about China. We think they have a social credit system and they think a dishwasher can afford a huge “villa”. Though now that it’s opened up a bit they talk about a poverty “kill line” where if you fall below a certain income you are pretty much doomed to die. Which is exaggerated, but has some basis in reality, like most of these myths.

        The one thing I think is a huge barrier is that they can’t understand why we drink cold water, even in the winter. So many conversations I’ve had have been about drinking cold water and asking “don’t you get dampness???” Honey, I’ve either never had dampess or I’ve been damp my whole life so I don’t know.

        Either way, they’re just, like, people. And thanks to the magic of the internet, you can just talk to those people.

        • Dr. Moose@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Missing my point entirely that Chinese people literally can’t do that.

          Also it’s very hard to get into Chinese internet from the west too with this one exception almost everything is either geo blocked or requires Chinese id/phone number.

  • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I mean. This is… Not worse than now, I guess?

    Any entity that can take a chunk out of YouTube’s dominance is a good thing.

    But I’m not going to celebrate another corp making a shamelessly monetized video site. They’re independent-ish now, yes, but for how long? It’s just a different flavor of attention gaming and enshittification in the long run.

    And I’m skeptical they have the muscle to significantly displace YouTube’s iron grip on everything, even with Google tightening the screws.

          • late_pessimistic@slrpnk.net
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            2 months ago

            This won’t help PeerTube become mainstream either.

            Hosting videos is extremely expensive, thus there is a financial incentive against hosting a PeerTube instance.

            Unless PeerTube fixes the incentives, it won’t be sustainable long-term.

            • NokkR6@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              They should do something like Nebula. A subscription maybe in cryptocoins so you still get privacy over your credit card.

          • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            It’s more that (as I understand it) the storage requirements increase exponentially relative to the number of users.

              • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Ah, I was misremembering an aspect - though the requirement is still there that as users join the storage* requirements will increase in the worst case exponentially, it’s not inherent to the ideal system, rather it’s a byproduct of cacheing requirements. At a certain point there will be enough users that popular content being accessed will overwhelm the instance hosting it - this is somewhat fixed by caching popular videos on other instances, but as the network of instances grows the need for cached resources grows with it. There may be ways to get around this, if so I’m simply not familiar enough with the current state of the software to know what those solutions are.

                • gandalf_der_13te@feddit.org
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                  2 months ago

                  nah i think that the storage requirement grows approximately linear with the number of users, and maybe in the worst case quadratically; but the typical case should be linear.

  • lemmelemmy@feddit.org
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    2 months ago

    Good. Seriously - enough with YouTube’s vs censorship and making predators like Jake Paul and mr beast into millionaires

    Edit: Ugh… checked on bilibili and noticed he also has a channel there. The guy is like a parasite to humanity

    • 0x0@infosec.pub
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      2 months ago

      Thank you for pointing out that shitnugget, its enough for me to know that i never will use bilis platform out of sheer principle

      • boonhet@sopuli.xyz
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        2 months ago

        I mean if another competitor rises up, he’ll just create an account there too. You’re stuck with peertube pretty much

    • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Bilibili isn’t going to be any better about censorship. It just has a slightly different list of forbidden topics.

  • harrys_balzac@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    2 months ago

    I just downloaded it. No sign up necessary but it asks for a birthdate. (I just picked June 4 1989 randomly, ofc.)

    It uses AI to translate from Chinese to your selected language. The image below shows available languages.

    You don’t need to login to upvote videos. However, you not be able to comment or reply. Also, viewing comments is limited.

    To create your account, you have to provide your phone number, which is an automatic “not happening” for me.

    Once your phone number is “bound”, you can link your Google account for your login. This will make it easier for East-West cooperation in data mining and mass surveillance.

    You can also use an email and password of your own choosing.

    Overall, I can’t see me actually binding my phone number to make an account.

    Anyway, here’s what my feed looked like when I opened the app and skipped account creation/login:

    Some AI looking slop, of course.

    Of the first dozen or so, only two seemed interesting - the Rick Roll meme history and a Brazilian explaining how to use “lá ele” in conversation. (I speak Brazilian Portuguese so this was actually very cool to see.)

        • Holytimes@sh.itjust.worksdeleted by creator
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          You wouldn’t have an account for long if you did anyways. Billibilli makes the censorship on YouTube look like fucking childs play.

          Foreign politics are fine, world history is fine. But anything that remotely touches on modern Chinese history or politics gets nuked from orbit and aggressively attacked.

          It’s a big reason why if you use Chinese apps for any length of time the one oddly absent thing from all of them is chinese politics.

          It’s extremely hard to over state just how aggressive billiblli can be about this.

  • Smaile@lemmy.ca
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    2 months ago

    I’m all for it, America needs to be reminded of what capitalism actually is.

    • redditStinksSuperBad@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Knowing our govt, Google will lobby them to ban BiliBili so they can enjoy classic american protectionism. Can’t make it in a free market so just ban / tariff the competition to hell.

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            2 months ago

            you know, way how america interferes with competition kind of reminds me of communism. Of course not exactly the same, but the what is allowed and what is not works in kind of similar way. The rich elite are even the “communist party” that runs things.

    • gandalf_der_13te@feddit.org
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      2 months ago

      the way i imagine it:

      • as long as it’s american companies running everything, it’s “fair” and “free market”.
      • as long as some company from abroad manages to do things better and more efficient, and american companies come under pressure, we’ll suddenly erect trade barriers and market hurdles to “protect american values”, “for our national security” or sth else. i’ve seen this soo many times. people who “just follow the rules” as long as the rules benefit them. as soon as the same rules start biting them in their own ass, suddenly for some reason they say that we need to change the rules.
      • Calibree@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Kinda like the EV situation in Europe (especially germany). European car makers benefited from cheap chinese labor force for centuries now while their executives, sitting in china, saw in real time how china started working on EV cars and thought nothing about it, riding high on their hubris since “no one could ever outpace them”. And now that china outpaced them the european coalition quickly released enormous tariffs on chinese EV imports to “secure the european car market” and “save themselves from the sheer wave of cheap (and nowadays also way better) EV cars.” When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

  • CumbrianCucumber@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I’ve heard of Billibilli. It’s great for pirated films and TV shows that you can’t get anywhere else.

    I don’t really trust it to be much better at respecting privacy than YouTube, but at this point, I’d be surprised if it was any worse, and YouTube has been getting worse for lack of competition for over a decade now

    • partofthevoice@lemmy.zip
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      2 months ago

      I feel like we’re entering a world where you have competing surveillance states, and citizens from either would be behooved to use technology from the other. For the simple fact that these two states don’t cooperate, using the other sides technology is inherently safer. They have far fewer manners of or financial interests in fucking you.

      • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Yeah. At this point as an American I’m way less worried about in the Chinese government tracking me than I am with the US government. The Chinese government is evil, but I don’t live in China.

        • Doom@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Yes but never forget they aren’t above building profiles on people and selling them. The US government regularly buys these sort of data packages as a loophole to bypass constitutional protections against search and seizures.

      • 7101334@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Yep, this is why my security cameras are all from Chinese companies. Though I guess the NSA still owns the Wifi lol

    • abc@suppo.fi
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      2 months ago

      I don’t really trust it to be much better at respecting privacy than YouTube

      Why would you trust it to be any better at respecting privacy?

      • CumbrianCucumber@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Basically, spying is one of YouTube’s most egregious problems, and one of the biggest reasons people like me want valid competition for it, and one of the biggest selling points of smaller competition like Peertube and Glomble. I don’t see Bilibili offering that, but just the competition itself might give YouTube the kick up the arse it needs to respect its users.

        I’m kidding myself, at this point it feels like YouTube would keep abusing its userbase even if it wasn’t profitable, just for the sheer fun of it, but in an ideal world, this would solve a lot of problems.

        • ∃∀λ@programming.dev
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          2 months ago

          Most users don’t care about any of the spying. I’d expect a competitor of similar size to do the same. If there’s any improvement competition could bring, it would be for the creators, giving them a larger slice of the ad revenue that otherwise goes to the owners of the platform. I guess that would mean better quality videos for users. Though, I don’t think allowing anyone to make boatloads of money by getting millions of people to sit around for hours and hours watching videos has been a positive for humanity. Incentivizing creators with more money will just make this worse.

    • busted_Anoose@aussie.zone
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      2 months ago

      I suspect like most things in China, as long as you aren’t Picking quarrels and provoking trouble you will be able to slag off the US all you want. But don’t you dare criticize the CCP, because apparently that hurts the feelings of all the people and they already suffer enough under Xinnie the pooh’s iron dick

  • percent@infosec.pub
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    2 months ago

    YouTube’s censorship has become worse than cable TV’s (in the US). I have a feeling that BiliBili will only further normalize the aggressive censorship, like TikTok did.

      • Zron@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        They ran over children with tanks and it’s a crime to talk about it there.

        Yes I will make fun of the Chinese government for not acknowledging their atrocities. Yes I also refuse to shut up about the US government putting Japanese-Americans in camps during WW2, or shooting college kids at Kent state, or putting Mexican kids in cages under the past 3 presidents. Don’t let governments hide the boot they want on our necks

        • marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today
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          2 months ago

          They very explicitly didn’t run over anyone with tanks. No one but Adrian Zenz has ever claimed that and you will not find a source that is not Adrian Zenz suggesting that they did.

        • ඞmir@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          I’ve asked multiple Chinese colleagues who have lived in China for most of their lives and they all openly discussed it with me.

          This Reddit tier hoax needs to die.

  • kaitco@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    How many unskippable ads before I can watch a 3-minute video?

    If it’s less than 2, I’m sold!