My voting flow chart is socialists, then democrats, then nobody.
Imo, we can fight over what shade of blue after the pedos are out of office.
This right here. And it goes for centrist dems too. If a progressive is the candidate on the ticket, vote for them. Don’t let the pedophiles win this one
Seems notable that we don’t have a headline with Joe Biden or whoever urging moderates to vote Democratic
That might have more to do with the senile and dying thing. Or he might’ve said it already. He probably did but I’m too lazy to check.
It’s not this headline, but I’m sure he has. Either he has or he’s been told that saying anything may drive people away instead, so he’s staying silent. Obama frequently does say this.
deleted by creator
Yes. The centrist ass dem I voted for veto’d a pro union bill. I would still vote for her over the alternative.
My primary votes are all left though.
Turning in a ballot with an empty selection is exactly the way to send the “voting for nobody” message that non-voters convince themselves they are sending, rather than the “you don’t need to care about my opinion on the issues because I don’t vote” message that it actually sends.
I cannot tell you how many sanctimonious jackasses I’ve met in my life that think their non-action is “sending a message”.
Staying home or doing performative nonsense like not selecting a candidate or voting third party is basically non-action, and virtually no one sees the message or cares.
I thought it rather silly when I was still in university and hearing it from peers. These days, when someone my age tells me they have been doing this for decades I usually ask him them who has gotten their “message” and what was done about it?
We’ve tried nothing and we’re out of ideas!
that’s how i feel about the democrats every 4 years. -They keep trying the same thing while expecting different results.
One of the recent local elections i voted in had a list of 3 shit Republicans for sheriff. I chose to vote for none of them. Every other ballot choice i filled out.
On a practical matter the message is still “both are equally acceptable to me”, with a small shade of a slightly louder “I wish there was someone better”.
But it indicates you actively participate and are therefore a winnable vote. That means campaigns are more likely to reach out to you in some way.
Since votes are secret, it really just indicates “I voted is this election and are 50/49/1 percent likely to have voted winner/runner-up/either”
I think not voting at all is a stronger message of “I wasn’t encouraged to actually vote for or against either”, but it’s also indistinguishable from “I just don’t care anymore” or “I was in a coma that November”
I think not voting at all is a stronger message
Have you observed that to be moving the DNC to the left over the past few decades? My observation is that after Kamala received fewer votes than Biden and lost to Trump, in the face of the historic (yet still measly) 4% of the primary vote being for Uncommitted, the entrenched neoliberals are digging in their heels and continuing to oppose progressive primary candidates in 2025 and 2026 primaries. My conclusion is that they don’t care, and we can’t trust them to get any message other than “you’re fired, and being replaced by this progressive candidate.” And the only way to do that is by voting for a progressive primary challenger in the primary.
I see people who don’t vote saying they never receive any flyers, calls, texts, canvassers, or any other kind of outreach from any campaigns. And then I see people who voted in either the primary or the general say they are bombarded with those types of outreach. So it’s hard for me to conclude anything other than that campaigns by and large ignore people with a public record of not voting. Because it’s harder and costs more to get a non-voter to vote than it is to get a voter to vote against the opposition. And in first-past-the-post, that is truly what your vote is in the general. Not a vote for the best, but a vote against the worst who is most likely to win.
“First-past-the-post” is a terrible moniker to describe the sort of single ballot plurality wins elections common in the USA. It’s metaphor is clumsy to the point of inaccuracy, since there isn’t any predermined scale that declares a winner. Whether only 3 votes are cast or 3 million, the winner is whomever has the biggest pile. A better sports metaphor might be “shotput”, but I think “plurality wins” is clear enough.
That being said, that the democratic establishment is ignoring the signals doesn’t mean that they aren’t relatively strong. The party’s voters are moving to the left, so even if the consultant gang isn’t responding to the collective “ew” of Uncommitted someone is.
Yeah, agreed on the wording.
What I mean is whether the signal is being ignored or misinterpreted is kind of immaterial. The desired result is not being observed, so a different tactic is required. We consistently have more non-voters than primary voters, so why not try voting in the primaries where each vote carries more weight than it does in the general? It certainly can’t be construed as a tacit approval of neoliberal policies like a vote for such a nominee in the general could be. So you still get a more clear and direct message than you did with non-voting.
There’s always a worse choice of the choices for who to vote for.
Vote for the other one.
The only perfect candidate for you is you yourself. If you’re not running, and you don’t have some form of ranked choice, not voting against the worse candidate is one fewer vote they need to overcome in order to win. And for your 1 vote against them, they need two for them to get ahead.
you just wrote ‘die’ on a piece of paper…
“I’m aware.”
In Canada, we have “centrists” that are really just fascists that don’t openly hate gay people. There is almost no difference between our current prime minister and the guy so many people were voting against. The stupid thing is that we have a proper progressive party.
My message to you is this: The conservatives know you’re scared and are using that. Their only tactic is to tell you that you need to vote against someone who is worse than them and then they get their power either way. It’s always “we can argue over the shade of blue once you put this specific shade of purple into power” and then nothing happens. The name-brand conservatives complain about them being woke, the “moderates” act like the problem is solved, and the left has to deal with both those idiots refusing to do any work.
Democrats have won multiple times since Carter and we’re still broke and rent is still insane. You’re preaching to the choir, but we didn’t operate concentration camps on American soil, or start two-three(who knows!?) wars.
Better, at the moment is all I can get. One italian kid having the balls to shoot a ceo isn’t enough for these sheep to actually do what’s necessary to fix the disunited states.
Democrats have won multiple times since Carter and we’re still broke and rent is still insane.
Have you considered that maybe part of the reason is that we keep slingshotting back to Republicans every other cycle and they do what they do best and fuck everything up, exactly like they’re doing now?
It’s massively disingenuous to imply Democrats don’t do anything. They have a PROVEN track record for being better for our economy. They’ve regularly bolstered social support programs. They passed the ACA/Obamacare, which definitely helped me when I was younger. They’ve worked to forgive student loans. They don’t make a hobby out of violating Constitutional rights. They don’t send masked goons into our cities to kill Americans. They don’t threaten our allies. They don’t impose tariff taxes.
They aren’t perfect, and clearly we should expect more out of them, but they definitely do get shit done and are a WAY, WAY, INFINITELY better option than Republicans and, realistically, the only other option on a federal level.
You’re right. They held our wellbeing just high enough for us not to riot. Now they know our bottom line is even lower than the meager leftovers they used to give us to make us think they’re the good guys. I’ll still vote for them over Republicans but the “good cop” party only cares about us as far as it gets them.
Now, that’s gonna change, hopefully. “The Democrats” that are pre-Trump are going to be seeing a bit of a socialist makeover before there’s any power grab by them ever again. The Democrats we knew won’t be The Democrats we know soon enough.
Gotta agree here. In terms of endorsing human rights, Dems have a far superior record to the GOP. However, it’s their motivation that I question. Since most Dems are beholden to their corporate donors, their motivation is “freedom of consumption,” that is, giving access of consumption to marginalized groups to maximize profits. I wonder how much of it is a genuine concern for human rights.
It also explains how Dems don’t go far enough or fight hard enough when it comes to marginalized groups.
I’ll take a win regardless of the motivation, but it’s interesting to investigate the underlying motivations.
That’s the thing, there will always be those COUPLE OF DEMOCRATS that come out of nowhere and flip on ONLY the key issues we care about. Lieberman, Manchin, Sinema, Collins, Fetterman, etc.
Funny how we always just have to vote a little harder, right?
Fetterman is a Trojan horse. They sent an undercover chud to parade around as woke. Bro looks about as woke as a snorlax
A lot of moderate and right wing Dems here.
except Fetterman, fuck that guy
Hm, it seems as if this patient is dying from a sucking chest wound. Doctor, how should we proceed?
“First, we need to get his diabetes under control. Then we will stop the bleeding.”
THANK YOU
If Democrats don’t take at least one chamber of Congress in the fall, I genuinely worry they may never again. The little that’s left of American democracy won’t survive another 2 years of full MAGA control. Anyone urging you to not vote for the Democrat in your races or to not vote at all is either running a right-wing/foreign influence campaign or so clueless about the big picture as to be safely ignored.
Good that you’re holding out hope. Some of us have already lost that lovin’ feeling.
To clarify, I was just saying the bell may already be rung, and I’m no longer of the view that we can definitely right this ship. BUT I am NOT saying we should not try. I’ll keep trying until the bitter end.
Regardless of the outcome elections, the GOP isn’t leaving.
And if you don’t vote in primaries, you need to start. It’s the only chance any of us have a say-so on who ends up on the Dem ticket.
This will not work by itself. The Dems have been cheating in the primaries for decades. Do it anyway! But also, we need to get into the bureaucracy.
We can’t stop at voting in the primaries. The reason we have never gotten anywhere is because we are not in the machine. We watch from the outside.
If you personally can’t do it, push someone you know to try. We have to be in the machine watching the boring procedural stuff, sitting and taking minutes, making and checking internal votes, leaking information when the status quo cheats, changing things from the roots.
The magats took over the Republican party. It took 30 years, and they had big money helping, but we can do it faster and cheaper if there’s enough of us!
And this:
It’s hard to buck the establishment. ~16,000 people were the difference in a state of 10 million.
If every eligible voter participated it wouldn’t even be close. Always blows my mind seeing comments on voting doesn’t matter when I’m on average voting for 3-4 other citizens in primaries.
On one hand, true. But some things to consider:
- Only about 1.4 million votes were cast, ~13% of the state’s registered voters. If you look at a map of the volume of El-Sayed’s votes, this low turnout let a relatively small number of local hot spots swing the election with higher-than-normal turnout due to his focus on them
- That moneyball strategy succeeding is a good sign regardless of the margin; the opposition spent millions of dollars in big market cities (notably Detroit) and on state wide campaigns and still failed to keep up. Spending from AIPAC and corporate interests was something like 11:1 vs his total campaign spend ($95 per non El-Sayed vote vs $9 for)
- Michigan has open primaries, meaning any voter could ignore the red side of the ballot (mostly uncontested and landslides) to poison the opponents primary. I’m not sure if this is quantified anywhere, but it’s definitely a factor considering republican strategists view the nascent progressive wing as a larger threat than establishment dems
I’m not convinced by that whole theory that “if everyone voted, the elections would turn out different!”. If we follow the Law of Large Numbers, the results would be pretty much the same.
I’m not convinced by that whole theory that “if everyone voted, the elections would turn out different!”.
There’s a strong correlation between election turnout and results trending conservative or progressive. It’s not the numbers but the percentage of turnout – and when turnout percentage is higher, the results skew progressive.
If we followed the Law of Large numbers here then we’d be doing garbage statistics and dumb.
That’s only correct if the reasons for not voting are similarly distributed across the political spectrum.
They are not: GOP constituencies tend to have easier access to time and resources to vote. Dem constituencies often have less access to polling stations, less ability to vote on election day due to work or life circumstance, and are disproportionately affected by moves for stricter voting requirements like proof of citizenship.
It is almost universally true, when turnout is high it benefits the Left. When it is low, it benefits the Right.
Yeah, my friends live in blue district in the city and it took them almost an hour to vote, their polling place was packed. The rural location I vote at was empty I was able to drive there, vote, and get home on a 30 minute lunch break. This seems to have always been a problem my whole life. I remember my parents taking me when they went and having to stand in long ass lines too. People are are always bitching about not wanting to go vote because it takes too long. IDK why it’s so hard for these places to organize it well enough to handle the volume more efficiently. It’s not like it really requires all that much manpower to hand out ballots and check IDs. Alternatively just make election days holidays.
Or reimburse the companies the salaries of their employee’s while they vote - I’m confident that would make queue times drop
47% of Dems in that state are conservative neoliberal Zionists. The boomers will eventually die off.
Removed by mod
What up doe
It totally depends on the candidate, their platform and who is financing their campaign. Just voting for someone because theyre a democrat gives us people like Kristen Sinema, Joe Manchin and Marie Gluesenkamp Perez who end up voting with the fascists.
Fetterman, Manchin, and Sinema, bad as they are and were, were still the better choice compared to their general election opponents.
An occasional collaborator sucks,. but is less-bad than either an unrepentant facist or an aligned “moderate” like Collins.
I feel like people forget that the alternative to Fetterman was Dr Oz.
Swapping Fetterman for Oz would have given the GOP majorities in both House and Senate, put Mitch McConnell back as Senate President, and generally been an objectively worse outcome.
Exactly this. I don’t disagree with wanting to cut the weakest members of the team to find someone better, but that’s for the primaries.
Looking at real numbers, Fetterman is better than Manchin or Sinema. Fetterman breaks with party lines around 25% of the time while Sinema was at 33% and Manchin was almost 40%. That makes him around twice as good as Manchin.
Idealogically, he also seems to stack up more favorably than both Manchin and Sinema, and a few other well know congressfolk that never get brought up in these conversations. Fetterman, like Manchin and Sinema, just seems to draw more attention to himself when he does it.
Do I dislike Fetterman and want him gone and replaced by someone better? Heck yeah! But the record shows he’s about 75% better than having Dr Oz as my senator would have been. Ignoring the times he did do what he was sent to do is very misleading to people that don’t take the time to look at actual data, which is going to be nearly everyone. Conor Lamb’s ideology score doesn’t look any better, so what we got is still about the best we had a chance to get.
People also fail to take account of Fetterman’s stroke, which clearly affected his allegiances.
He was known before it as a homespun man of the people.
Brain damage causes conservatism.
This is such a good point I hate to see it buried. The GOP in those areas would vote in satan2 if he had a red hat and said nice things about them.
if he had a red hat and said nice things about them.
Don’t even need to say nice things about them. Trump talks down to his supporters all the time and they slurp it up. It’s a cult thing. And if you have the mark of the cult upon your body, then you can say whatever and not lose support.
Agreed. Fuck Fetterman, but fuck Oz even more.
It totally depends on the candidate …
That’s what the primaries are for. Hope you have or will vote in yours this year.
Bernie also gave Pennsylvania Fetterman
Bernie couldn’t have predicted his traumatic brain damage
This is who fettermans always been to anyone paying attention
Explain at what time and how he was brain damaged?
Dude’s had multiple strokes; his own staffer notes his change in disposition
https://people.com/john-fetterman-shares-graphic-photo-of-stitches-after-fall-11850101
Prior to his Nov. 13 [stroke], Fetterman experienced a stroke while on the campaign trail in May 2022, and in May of that year shared that he had been diagnosed with atrial fibrillation, which affects the two upper chambers of the heart. Ventricular fibrillation, the condition his spokesperson referred to after Fetterman’s most recent hospital stay, affects the two lower chambers.
In February 2023, Fetterman was hospitalized overnight for lightheadedness. At the time, his spokesperson said, “Initial tests did not show evidence of a new stroke, but doctors are running more tests and John is remaining overnight for observation.”
Just weeks after he was admitted to the hospital in February, Fetterman checked himself into Walter Reed National Military Medical Center for clinical depression.
“Part of the tragedy here is that this is a man who could be leading Democrats out of the wilderness,” Jentleson said. “But I also think he’s struggling in a way that shouldn’t be hidden from the public.”
Thanks to the ignorant cunts who ignore primaries thinking they don’t matter.
When that happens your November choice is between whoever got through the primary or the MAGAt, so people sit it out and bitch about their choices.
If enough progressives actually got involved rather than whining about things they could make huge gains and reshape the pathetic Democrats, alas, it’s easier to whine on the internet then go pay attention in the summer and stand in line to vote.
Voters have helped train the party that they can be horrible politicians that are never held accountable because voters will keep coming back. And every election they get slightly worse, because there is no accountability. Our current political landscape is the fault of the VBNMW crowd that’s allowed it to happen, including getting trump elected.
New York, and now Michigan, and I’m sure others will follow suite electing more progressive candidates because suddenly people are realizing primaries matter. Pointing backwards and shouting at the past isn’t going to get all those fucking pedophiles out of office.
https://www.npr.org/2026/08/05/g-s1-137422/primary-elections
BE salty, but put that anger toward something useful, like helping a non establishment candidate win in a primary.
It doesn’t matter of Democrats are the majority or minority party if they do nothing to benefit the working class. You voted for what you didn’t want in office and got it anyway.
I’m guessing you either did the same, or didn’t vote.
I dont support fascists of either color
Oh, so did you get what you didn’t vote for?
I’d rather vote for something I want and not get it than vote for something I don’t want, and get it.
Eugene V. Debs
And who was the other option? Was it a Republican? Is it your assertion tha the Republican they were running against would have had a better voting record? Because that’s what you’re saying if you’re saying not to vote for the Democrat, no matter how shitty.
Or are you saying magically go back in time and run someone better? Because the opportunity to do so was not the general, but th eprimary.
But when it comes down to the general and you have one blue and one red option, GIVE ME ONE FUCKING EXAMPLE WHERE VOTING RED OR NOT VOTING BLUE IS THE CORRECT CHOICE.
Because all these people who sit out the vote are effectively voting red.
Also depends on the type of election. If you aren’t a fascist and you don’t vote Dem in a FEDERAL election (presidency) then there is something broken inside your brain and you need to immediately seek a more thorough education.
There is more nuance in smaller local/state elections though. But, assuming you aren’t a fascist, you still need to determine whether a Republican (fascist) will win if you don’t vote Dem.
If you want to vote 3rd party you need to accept that you are getting in on an enterprise building up from the basement of a very large building. You’re going to need to vote 3rd party for very small local offices for a very long time before you can start voting for them on a state level, and even longer before voting for them on a federal level. There is no cheat code to bypass this.
- There is a material difference between the Democrats and Republicans that’s worth observing. Dems are merely corrupt politicians: the Republicans are Xtian extremist white-nationalist fascists.
- It is vanishingly unlikely that a 3rd party candidate can win in 99% of the elections. Most successful independent politicians became independent after they were first elected, and win as incumbents.
- Not voting for the viable candidate running against the fascist GOP, because that candidate is not as $SOMETHING as you want them to be, is simply demonstrating privilege, that you are insulated enough from the effects of the fascist regime that you’re not personally harmed by the fascists winning. Vote like defeating the fascists is the only objective.
There better not be one fucking democrat that doesn’t vote in the midterms and the presidential election in '28.
Oh, we’ll vote for them, but the Democratic Party must cease to be undemocratic, and they must stop their ploy to act as a honeypot to capture and neutralize progressive policies and politicians. They must reckon with us, not the other way around. Armistice. That is the offer. After the midterms there will be deep canvassing in every district the shitlib Democrats thought were safe. Now they can go ask for more fucking money from their malefactors. They’ll need it.
I am so with you here. I’ve been scolding (I’m old, it’s my job) people for whining that the Dems won’t do anything if they take power, and I’m saying that statements like that give them permission to squander the next opportunity, too.
We have to let them know that if we sweep a bunch of angry progressives and democratic warriors into office, we expect every other Dem to match that energy, or get the fuck out of the way. And step one is to get rid of the MAGA comedy act of Schmuck & Jeffries. Those two losers are 50% of the reason MAGA is back in power, and stronger. Their schtick is old, and they need the hook to drag their corrupt asses offstage.
The Dems get ONE more chance, because if we don’t win the Midterms and play some serious HARD BALL for the next two years, we’ll lose the next opportunity in 2028.
What we need is a deep bench of like minded individuals in every contested region who are willing to run for everything from dog catcher to Senate, and to be one term politicians. If one loses, “batter up” for the next one. Policy not personality.
Yeah, I agree with you on this. Well said, we need to take over the Democratic Party and make it left wing again
People have been making this demand for decades.
It only sticks when Dem leadership finally changes.
Removed by mod
Dude, this is Lemmy, why are you here if you’re not a commie?
To troll commies
Be sure to let us know once you get that trolling thing figured out.
Because I hate Reddit
Bash the fash
If you’re not an anti-authoritarian commie by this point you’re one of the bad guys.
I am a bad guy
Well it is in your name I guess.
Quiet now, that commie is cooking
Might as well pin this. Going to need this until November.
Just your friendly reminder that online right-wing operatives have a strong inclination to sow defeatism and apathy and push people to vote third party when it’s abundantly clear that there won’t be a race anywhere in the country where the Democrat isn’t better than the Republican in a binary choice election. Clearly, Bernie agrees.
By better you mean to the left of trump, even though the DNC are now first term trump Republicans?
Removed by mod
How exactly is Bernie Sanders a shit person. Please explain. I am willing to listen, so please do your best.
I mean even if we entertain what you say is true (it’s not), yes – that is by definition better than the alternative binary choice.
As your ‘better alternative’ keeps getting worse because there is no accountability
Yes, good job, this is a great example, thank you!
Removed by mod
Let’s not back the 3rd party that’s leaps and bounds better than either shade of fascism. Let’s keep the status quo that’s holding us all down firmly in place.
If voters keep rewarding bad behavior from their politicians the next version of trump to come along will be way worse.
- Democratic party whom I align with 70% of time (as does Sanders): ~50% odds of winning
- Republican party whom I align with 0% of time: ~50% odds of winning.
- Third party whom I may or may not align with depending whom (and who are you actually fucking talking about?): 99.999% chance of losing, and thanks to the spoiler effect all but enables the greater poison to win.
Genius. Simply genius. Please, learn how Democratic primaries work, get engaged, and all your concerns will be assuaged.
You know what causes 3rd parties to not win? Voters that think they are not viable. You know what would make them viable? Voters voting for them. Instead of having some balls and voting your conscience most voters wnt to be on a ‘winning team’ rather than do what’s right.
Spoiler effect is something that only happens in the minds of liberals, there could be NO 3rd party on the ballot and we are still not going to support your flavor of fascism.
They aren’t viable when, election after election, they get at most 2 to 3 percent and everyone knows it.
Not my problem, I vote for what I want in government. I’ll leave the tribalism to the fascists
Throwing away your vote helps ensure the worst of the two viable candidates gets elected.
Democrats alone got the worst of them elected both times. You’ve seen the numbers, Harris would have still lost if all 3rd party votes went to her. Decades of liberal ‘lesser evil’ has only resulted in the greater evil. That’s what happens when bad behavior is rewarded.
This is incorrect, actually, but I expect nothing more from someone I have tagged for dubious claims about Russia and China. Yikes!
If anyone else has better arguments or questions and who isn’t from .ml I’ll engage in good faith :)
No one cares about your good faith when your good faith is only looking for confirmation bias
Removed by mod
Fascists appreciate your support.
Democrats don’t appreciate my support
Removed by mod
Sadly those 3rd parties mathematically have no feasible path to overtaking the two parties in control without dissolving one first.
To dissolve a party you need to first start by creating a schism within the party itself. Utilize that schism to create a popularist outcry that allows the reformation of a new party. We do not have a system like proportional representation that allows for 3rd parties to grow and develop influence via coalitions.
Ignoring this is just willfully ignorant and is actually a strategy that the two parties employ to split votes from their main adversary.
No one is saying they want to keep the status quo, just that it is more feasible to completely reshape the party than to elevate an existing third party.
We’ve already seen it happen over the last ten years with the Republican party. How radical right winged factions infiltrated the old power structures and pushed the party further and further right. We could do the same with the old guard in the democratic party.
Let’s not back the 3rd party that’s leaps and bounds better than either shade of fascism.
NO VIABLE 3RD PARTY ON A FEDERAL LEVEL.
NO VIABLE 3RD PARTY ON A FEDERAL LEVEL.
NO VIABLE 3RD PARTY ON A FEDERAL LEVEL.
Let me know how many more times I have to repeat it before it sinks in.
Fun Fact: The 3rd party candidate with the most votes in 2024 was Jill Stein with a half of a single percent of the total votes cast, confirming that no 3rd party has any path at all to winning a federal election.
Alright. So here it comes. Stick with me just a little longer. You got this.
Considering that we KNOW BEYOND DOUBT that a 3rd party can’t win a federal election, that leaves only two possible parties that will control our federal government. Think REAL REAL hard about which of those two parties you’d rather have control and then GO FUCKING VOTE FOR THEM.
Then, to make yourself feel all nice inside, when your local/state elections come up, have a fucking blast voting for 3rd party candidates and I’ll be right there cheering you on. Because voting for 3rd parties in local/state elections FOR A LONG TIME is how you ONE DAY get a 3rd party that can maybe possibly win a federal election.
Psssst. We only have 3 months until the election. Ain’t gonna be a viable 3rd party by then. Ain’t gonna be one in 2028 either.
Hope this helped. I somehow doubt it did though.
Decades of liberals thinking they’re choosing a lesser evil and they’ve got to show for it is a greater evil
And this is consistent with how Bernie has voted over the years. If his vote doesn’t matter on a bill that will move things towards his goals but not enough, he votes no. However, if his vote is needed, he’ll vote yes because some progress is better than no progress.
And it is always amazing how people will claim to like Bernie but really don’t like it when this is pointed out.
Perfection is the enemy of the good. I understand that. I am also empathetic to the choice of those who sit out elections when they feel ignored. I don’t agree with it, but i understand.
Honestly though, we’re not even talking about perfection. We’re not even getting anyone that’s better that the stock, spineless, no-idea Democrat in a lot of places. I get why people sit out when all you hear is no big ideas other than, REPBULICAN IS BAD, VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO.
I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face.
Not voting is a moral endorsement of whoever wins no matter how bad they may be.
(For single non-transferrable votes like we usually have in the US this also applies to spoiling your ballot or voting for a vanity candidate.)
We’re not even getting anyone that’s better that the stock, spineless, no-idea Democrat in a lot of places.
Do you know what’s worse than stock, spinless, no-idea Democrats?
Fascist Republicans.
Do you know what happens when you sit out the vote?
You, as someone who might’ve voted Democrat, now are not. This increases the Republican vote.
You are enabling fascists.
People like me are frustrated by the spineless right-center Democrats as well, but I FUCKING VOTE BLUE TO PREVENT FASCISTS FROM TAKING OFFICE.
In the primary, vote progressive. Support progressives running for office! BE a fucking progressive running for office if you can. BUT WHEN YOUR CHOICE IS FASCISM OR NOT FASCISM FUCKING VOTE FOR NOT FASCISM OR YOU SUPPORT FASCISM. The general election is TOO FUCKING LATE and THAT is why you FUCKING VOTE BLUE IN THE GENERAL ELECTION NO MATTER WHO because they are better than the fucking fascist option.
Jesus fucking Christ it’s not that fucking hard.
Are they? When they vote in a “bipartisan” way and ensure the fascists get 90% of their way? Nah, I’ve done and defended the harm reduction for the past decade and a half now, constantly holding my nose to vote for the assholes only to get mostly fascist bullshit. Nothing like Democrats who voted to give ICE MORE MONEY!
Nah, I vote in every primary for who I want and if after I vote someone who’s going to run with a Republican, fuck them. I’ll take the quick burn to the ground vs only burning slightly slower, not like these milquetoast assholes are actively doing anything to prevent it, welcoming fascism coming anyways.
Nah, I’m over the bullshit Blue no matter bullshit for no-idea, do nothingings especially when it’s not reciprocated.
welcoming fascism coming anyways.
Yeah, obviously you are.
Look, you can whine about Democrats all you want. The reality is no 3rd party is going to win the presidency anytime even remotely soon. As in, even if a 3rd party actually started putting in effort (they aren’t) and Americans actually started showing support for that 3rd party on a local/state level, it would still probably take decades for that movement to gain enough traction to have a shot at the presidency.
So you WILL get Republicans or Democrats in control of our federal government for the foreseeable future, and likely the remainder of your life.
Sooooooooooooooo do the math. It’s really not that hard.
You get actual fascists. Or you get a milquetoast party that’s always better with our economy, doesn’t violate the fuck out of our Constitutional rights, doesn’t impose tariff taxes on us, doesn’t have masked goons executing Americans in the streets, occasionally does things like pass the ACA/Obamacare, forgive student loans, bolster social support programs, doesn’t threaten our allies and cozy up to dictators, etc etc etc etc etc etc.
More power to you if you want to vote 3rd party in local/state elections. But if you can’t adult up and vote for the FAR, FAR better option when it comes to a presidential election, then you’re straight garbage. Period.
I’ll take the quick burn to the ground
This is a profoundly immature statement. I promise you if a quick burn to the ground actually happened you would regret it. You are not prepared to live in a collapsed nation. I promise you.
Dems are lying, cheating, censorial, and, worst of all - stupid. They gotta earn votes. The calling everyone else Nazis shtick is over
You are correct.
But the people you are trying to address are children throwing a tantrum who want what they want and nothing else. So they’ll absolutely not vote or vote for a 3rd party candidate for president that literally cannot win and, thus, help Republican fascists take control.
They do not care about the welfare of their nation (or any other nation). They care about their own self-satisfaction.
I’m also tired of trying to reach them by pretending that the only reason I vote Democrat is to prevent fascist Republicans from taking control. It’s a strategy to try to plead with these idiots using a single, very important point. Keep the fascists out. But I’ve been alive for long enough to know that Dems are always better regarding our economy. They don’t collect Constitutional violations like trading cards. They do things like pass the ACA/Obamacare and try to eliminate student debt. They vote to bolster social support programs.
I’m tired of pretending Dems are better just because they aren’t Republicans. They definitely aren’t perfect, but they get shit done and they have a track record to prove it. Most Americans, and especially the type that don’t vote or vote 3rd party, are too goddamn lazy to do their homework to discover this truth about the Democrat party.
Dems are already infinitely better than Republicans. The Democrat party just needs to be reformed to be pushed in a more progressive direction, which is totally possible since we just witnessed conservatives reforming the Republican party in the worst way possible over the last decade.
Ah yes everyone in the other political party is literally Hitler. Convenient
Found the fascist.
J’accuse!
Lol. Someone’s been in a coma for a number of years now. Welcome back.
When a fascist authoritarian rises and takes control of a party and all that party’s voters and all that party’s members of Congress bend the knee for A FUCKING DECADE through all sorts of absurd bullshit, including relentless Constitutional violations then yes, they’re ALL FUCKING FASCISTS.
Glad to have you back. You’ve got some catching up to do.
Fascist authoritarians don’t have their names taken off of public buildings by courts.
deleted by creator
My experience with the Obama/Bernie/Trump voter isn’t that they have some nuanced understanding of politics that must be studied. They’re just extremely responsive to a charismatic performance.
Obama/Bernie/Trump voters are very fringe, despite the media’s attempts to suggest otherwise. There were more Clinton voters who went Republican when Obama won the primary in 2008.
For a while now the Ds have been owned by corpos. They support the establishment and that stance is as far left as center right, and many times far less left than that’s. A lot of D candidates have R policies with some lip service to left ideology. The governor of MI was caught saying she didn’t care what the people wanted about data centers, she’ll make a deal to build them anyway. Gavin Newsom is positioning himself as a presidential candidate and he’s about as corpo establishment as someone can get. So when the choice is a corporate owned candidate thats either far right or center right, its not really a choice. I won’t vote blue no matter who b/c that just enables and empowers Ds to continue acting like they currently are.
Vote in the leftists in the primaries, and vote for harm reduction in the general. Any other strategy being peddled is either poor strategy, or a campaign designed to keep people from voting.
Democratic socialists have won several big races recently because people actually bothered to vote in the fucking primary instead of just bitching about it while refusing to vote against literal fascists.
Vote in the leftists in the primaries, and vote for harm reduction in the general.
Sometimes harm reduction means voting for a good primary candidate, watching them lose, and staying home in the general because the alternative is a liberal-coded fascist.
Democratic socialists have won several big races recently because people actually bothered to vote in the fucking primary
Turnout swells when candidates run on positions that voters support. The DemSocs didn’t win because people just happened to vote in larger numbers. More people voted because DemSocs were loud, proud, socially active, and adapt at getting people excited to support them.
When that energy goes away, Democrats lose long term. When institutional liberals try to smear and undercut DemSocs, they Dick Cheney their own base of support.
Not voting is by far the absolute stupidest voting strategy of all time.
Ragebait more believably, please
Both parties play this game. They scream at their base “It’s US or SOMEONE WORSE!” and then 40 years later you’ve got Hillary Clinton losing to Donald Trump.
Voting out of hysteria is exactly how you get people like Trump in office.
Not voting is actually what got us here. The dems didnt have time to hold a primary because biden refused to secede, so the people didnt get to vote for a candidate, they were forced into voting for kamala.
If youre correct and emotional voting is a rampant issue, kamala would have won in a landslide.In reality, people dont vote or arent excited to vote for the status quo, or are convinced by people like you to not vote.
Voting for the second most evil person is infinitely better than idly watching the most evil person win by default.
Not voting is actually what got us here.
All three Trump elections saw record high turnout.
And how does electing Republicans improve things? Because not voting Dem in the general results in Republicans being elected. And THAT sends the message that the party should cater more to those who do vote, which swings the party to the right.
And how does electing Republicans improve things?
It’s a false choice when your only options are fascists.
Consider Jim Justice, for instance.
And this is why the left always loses.
laughs in Michigan Senate
El-Sayed is a Democrat, is he not?
Nice to have enough privelege to not care about the difference between corrupt politician and a clear eyed fascist. I guess you believe you and your family is safe from the icetapo, your financial situation is good enough to survive anything, and your house wouldn’t be bombed.
Enjoy this feeling while you can.
No. I won’t. I’m paying attention to the people left of center. Fuck dems.
You can influence the Dems to move to the left, or you can help the fascists. Those are the real choices.
The only pressure we have is our vote. Voting for them anyway is how we got here in the first place.
No, not voting for them is how the GOP is as strong and fascist as it is.
A third party winning is literally impossible. Anything other than a vote for the Democrats in the genral election is effectively half a vote for the Republicans.
Anyone telling others to vote 3rd party is either a fucking idiot or is intentionally trying to water down the anti-fascist vote. Either way, shut the hell up. We need to stop the motherfuckers currently in power, and you’re making that harder.
it’s funny everybody that says a third party can’t win never explains why.
They aren’t in the debates. They aren’t in the news. They frequently aren’t in the ballot.
Bernie has achieved what he has by caucusing as a Democrat. He joined the Democratic Party for both his Presidential campaigns.
Third parties are spoilers. That’s it.
If 1% of the Florida voters who voted for the Green party in 2000 had instead voted for Gore, Bush would never have been President and the world would be in a much better place.
Dems when you hold your nose and vote blue no matter who:
The VBNMW crowd gave us Fetterman, Simena, Manchin, and Trump.
No, the “I’m voting for rando-3rd party” or “I’m sending a message by not voting” folks got us Trump. And specifically people like you encouraged it, so your opinion here is either completely wrong, or disinformation on purpose.
Guys Momela herself has come here to shame us for not voting for her twice. while she failed to capture 20 yr olds and lost in a post-covid blowout to Donald fucking Trump. Now we’re cooked.
Imagine getting utterly dog-walked by a senile pedophile and blaming the people who did vote for you.
Not sure what you’re even saying. The blame isn’t for the people who actually voted D come November, but the 3rd party voters, or “protest voters”. Unfortunately, with the way the US voting system works, a vote for a 3rd party come Election Day is absolutely a throw away vote.
Word maybe the democrats will listen when I say I won’t vote for genocide. I mean I have the power to win them the election, they should listen right
They will learn nothing, their failures are always someone elses fault
Hope you’re enjoying Trump then with that mindset. Thanks!
If your only two options are genocide, then your country deserves to burn.
Nobody who “abstained in protest” were ever going to vote anyway. That’s not a thing serious people do, those aren’t a voting demographic, it’s just a cope unserious people say to explain why they haven’t gotten their ID to vote or done the bare minimum to register.
DNC people blaming their losses on that are just trying to distract from how their strategy to resist fascism for the last 15 years has been to run aging, Republican-lite, Obama cabinet members and expect the new onslaught of Maga to just compromise with them. They don’t change, they don’t reflect, they don’t reach out to young people, they just capitulate the the worst humans alive and then they blame their own base when they lose to those humans.
Every 3rd party vote could have gone to the trump in blackface candidate and she still would have lost.
The DNC gave us Trump both times
Removed by mod
“Don’t bring me problems. Bring me solutions.”
Thank GOD for this! I was WORRIED, with all the Democrat Leaders NOT endorsing OR supporting Progressive WINNERS, that we ABANDONED our BLUE no matter WHO Mantra! THANK you Bernie for Bringing it back in case a REPUBLICAN wins the Democrat Primaries!
Could everyone please stop typing like Trump having his nightly 3am toilet aneurysm on socials? It’s not cute or funny anymore, it’s been a thing for over a decade.
I don’t think cute or funny was the aim there.
I meant cute like cheeky, not cute like adorable
