• Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        2 hours ago

        It’s two different arguments. Individually there are many people who see women having it better then themselves and of course they will be upset when society is saying they don’t. Empathy here is understanding both sides have some valid points. Men do have a lot of problems in society. An entire generation left behind because many social programs focused only on boosting women while forgetting men. Telling those men to suck it up or that they’re wrong isn’t the answer. It’s only going to radicalize sides. Both sides should be addressed.

  • Cruel@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    8
    ·
    edit-2
    15 hours ago

    Women have equality and a generally preferable status in Western society. I sure as hell wish I was a woman. My sexual assault would’ve been taken seriously, police would be less suspicious and hostile toward me, better education opportunities, better financial support.

    Focusing on their issues is comparable to an egalitarian focusing on issues that affect white people. I’m sure everyone here would question that, right?

    • ReluctantMuskrat@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      13 hours ago

      As a guy that was falsely accused of domestic violence and rape, I experienced firsthand the huge difference in how such accusations are viewed. I was assumed guilty, especially by law enforcement, the legal community and friends, neighbors and coworkers I wasn’t close with. It was tough, and embarrassing too.

      That said, I fully understand that I was the odd case. Far more women genuinely experience sexual assuault and abuse by men and struggle to get the support they need than men that experience what I did… the difference is orders of magnitude. Just because I experienced some unequal treatment based on my gender doesn’t change the fact that women disproportionately suffer greatly at the hands of men and awareness and change is needed.

      My personal experience doesn’t diminish the vastly greater numbers of women that suffer worse.

  • MithranArkanere@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    67
    ·
    1 day ago

    Feminism isn’t just about women.
    Toxic masculinity isn’t caused just by men.
    Black Lives Matter isn’t just about black lives.
    “Believe women” isn’t about blindly believing what women say. “Christian charity” is the least charitable thing in the world.
    “Defund the police” and “abolish the police” aren’t about eliminating police forces and letting crime run rampant.
    AI is anything but intelligent.
    “Global Warming” sounds tame for what’s actually happening: “climate disruption” and “climate catastrophe”. A bunch of countries with “communist” or “democratic” in their names are anything but.

    Words are stupid. Slogans are lazy. People lie.

    Which is why I like the lyrics of ‘Enjoy the Silence’ so much.

    • ameancow@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      31
      ·
      edit-2
      1 day ago

      Every single line item in your comment became ammunition for foreign agents to get into our culture over the last 20 years and just escalate the FUCK out of both sides of each idea there.

      It was directly from the KGB handbook written over 50 years ago, that if you infiltrate a nation’s culture and just amplify the most radical takes of both sides of every issue, it will create so much chaos and completely destabilize a culture so that people tune out and stop trusting each other or any news story they read. This has the effect of making the population just default to whatever state media they see and stop caring about social issues entirely. It’s been shocking seeing how effectively it’s played out in the US.

      I watched it happen, I was on the frontlines, managing a few social sites and moderating a huge subreddit about relationships. It was a creeping infection at first, but eventually it was like Helm’s Deep, but instead of orcs outside, it was astroturfers, crybullies, sea lions, and the entire goddamn ZOO of bad-actors and subversive chuds. For every horrible, shit-mouthed incel ranting about how women need to be put in cages, there was also some delusional, insane “feminist” screaming about how all men are rapists and men should never be left alone with children.

      I gave up the fight, reddit banned me for being an involved human, but it continues to this day, getting worse by the day.

        • ameancow@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          3 hours ago

          while the techniques were pioneered and written down by the KGB, I’m not even saying the blame lay on Russia alone. There are a lot of forces adopting this tactic, both foreign and domestic.

          Wait 'til you learn about Twitter.

      • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        11
        ·
        21 hours ago

        I watched it happen because I saw it happening and read the (too few) news reports that pointed out that it was indeed happening.

        But it’s like climate change. It seems to go in one ear and out the other for the vast majority of the population.

        • ameancow@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          edit-2
          20 hours ago

          The fact that our species has a glaring weakness in identifying abstract threats, while at the same time we’re developing tools capable of performing the most abstract possible attacks on our free-will and agency, makes me feel a tad uncomfy about the near term future.

  • Lumisal@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    42
    ·
    edit-2
    1 day ago

    How to get the point across a bit better while also pointing out the guy actually doesn’t care.

  • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    11
    ·
    edit-2
    22 hours ago

    And the girl is the reason why feminists have such a bad reputation

    Just don’t be a dick and treat everyone equal and with respect and we’ll be fine.

    Now watch the down votes come in because I said that everyone should be treated equal and with respect and that the girl was wrong.

    • Matriks404@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      2 hours ago

      I remember being banned on some subreddit back then for saying that. Apparently it’s racist, lol.

      That said, all of these movements on social media are really stupid, and if you interact with a person in real world, it seems that most of the issues disappear, aside from some individuals doing very bad things, but that’s what law is for.

      The truth is, capitalists are just trying to divide us, and it’s like most people are really blind, and don’t see that, which is crazy to me.

      • guy@piefed.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        35 minutes ago

        Well yeah I guess. It’s the same as the point of this comic, disregarding systemic issues for a group with whataboutism of the rest

    • buddascrayon@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      25
      ·
      24 hours ago

      Once upon a time I objected to the Black Lives Matter moniker. I didn’t disagree with the message that black people need to be counted more than they were. I have always thought that I counted black people as equals to everyone, so I just subconsciously completed the sentence by adding the word “more” in my head. Thinking to myself “oh, they have a terrible branding issue because everyone who reads the phrase Black Lives Matter will automatically just think they mean Black Lives Matter More”. But ultimately that wasn’t the problem. It wasn’t the phrase that was the issue.

      What was the real problem was the inherent racism that had be ingrained into my consciousness by untold years of media and politics that continually make black people out to be lazy selfish useless people who only want a handout. (See Ronald Reagan’s speech about the “welfare queen”. Hint, he wasn’t talking about a white woman.)

      In the end the problem I had with the phrase “Black Lives Matter” wasn’t their fault for picking a bad phrase. It was, in fact, me and my own preconceived notions of what a black person is and should be. All based on how society has portrayed them my entire life.

      So now I very loudly say “BLACK LIVES MATTER”. And more people need to embrace this instead of trying to logic it out of existence with the pointless platitude “well ackchually all lives matter” like some snivelling little child with an inferiority complex. Because yes all lives should matter but in our fucked up society black lives usually don’t.

      • Lumisal@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        10
        ·
        21 hours ago

        I mean, the phrase wasn’t good either, hence why you also ended up thinking that.

        Black Lives Also Matter would have been much better, as it alludes that there is enough prejudice that society must be reminded, and the acronym is BLAM, which could be used as onomatopoeia invoking gun shots, which directly ties to the causes original protests against the police. It also sounds more of a plea for help than it does an aggressive simple statement - which considering the movement aimed to be peaceful, is the kind of sound you’d want.

        The truth is these kinds of things heavily rely on optics, and BLM was a very bad choice of slogan. People forget even the whole Rosa Parks thing was carefully orchestrated for a reason - you need good causes, good figures, and good slogans for rallying support.

        BLM is so bad I wonder if the push to use it was some kind of counter psy-op to then push things like All Lives Matter to help discredit it, because I swear I heard the BLAM acronym being used as well in the beginning. I would imagine such authorities would have learned well how to discredit such movements ever since the days and success of the Civil Rights era.

        • reptar@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          20 hours ago

          I like Black Lives Matter because on its face it is a “no duh” statement (for most…)

          To me, it is pointing out the absurd disconnect between what (almost) everybody believes without question and the actual state of society and policing in particular. There’s something stronger to “we matter” vs “we matter too”, but I’m struggling to put it into words. For some reason, I feel like BLAM or something similar loses some impact.

          But that’s just in my head; as far as the success of a movement, you’re probably right. Also, if it was BLAM from the start, maybe I wouldn’t dislike it.

          • squaresinger@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            17 hours ago

            The reason why “we matter” is stronger than “we matter too” is because it doesn’t reference the other and thus is a purely one-sided thing, which can totally be read as “we matter more”.

            I’m not sure though if that’s a good thing, depending on what’s the goal.

            Any minority movement always has to keep in mind that it’s the majority that decides. Suffragettes did not take voting rights by force. They got voting rights because they managed to find enough allies in the male population that they were given voting rights.

            Black slaves didn’t end slavery themselves. They managed to find enough allies that would be willing to fight and die in a civil war to give them their freedom.

            And a group consisting of roughly 12% of a country’s population will not take the country by force and change laws by themselves.

            “Black lives matter” is an incredibly polarizing statement that causes opposition (as evidenced e.g. by “Blue lives matter”, which totally has the implied “more” attached). It’s comparatively easy to say “No, the life of a black suspect does not matter more than the life of a police officer”, if you already lean in that direction. It’s a good slogan if you want to polarize and divide.

            “Black lives matter too” is a statement that’s really hard to disagree with, because of course black lives matter too, unless you are a hard-core white supremacist.

            So if the goal is to get the majority on your side and actually cause change, I think “Black lives matter too” would have been the better slogan.

            • Lumisal@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              16 hours ago

              Agree.

              But “Black Lives Matter Too” abbreviates to BLMT which kinda sound like a sandwich 😅

              BLAM conveys the same meaning but the acronym does double duty.

              • squaresinger@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                edit-2
                7 hours ago

                “Black lives also matter” works just as well, that’s right, no contest there.

                And you are right, BLAM sounds way better than both BLM and BLMT.

    • GladiusB@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      21 hours ago

      It’s implied in “black lives matter” that all lives matter. They are merely pointing out that their lives are not being treated as they matter when police officers are choking them out for 20 bucks.

      • ChapulinColorado@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        16 hours ago

        All lives matter people: All houses matter!

        Others: But that one is on fire… shouldn’t the firefighters work on it first?

        All lives matter people: No! All houses matter and that one is mine!!!

        Short comparison that kind of gets the point across. I think it was from some comedy show like John Stewart or John Oliver and the like.

  • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    93
    ·
    edit-2
    2 days ago

    This is what I don’t get about the manosphere movement.

    Young guys watch these influencers being abrasive macho dorks, talking exactly like this. They somehow combine that “dorky, petty semantic minutia” argument style with being aggressively condescending and being a macho jerk, all at once. I’m a pretty isolated guy, yet it’s amazing how grating it is to me.

    And men watching these influencers conclude that… other people will appreciate that?

    • drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      20 hours ago

      Because the other side tells you that you suck and your problems are not real.

      If you are a boy and you look around one side blaming you for all of societies ills and the other simply is not what aide are you going to gravitate to?

    • kingofras@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      1 day ago

      Things are already equal. Toxic masculinity comes from toxic femininity. Toxic femininity comes from toxic masculinity. It’s been like that forever, but we raised the living standard enough so now we can argue about this with our excess spare time.

      Also, it is another way of divide and conquer to make sure that we keep fighting each other and not the billionaire class who needs to be defeated if you want to have a world in 20 years from now.

      The quantum head fuck Is that men and women have always been equal in a weird way and at the same time equality can never be achieved because giving birth was given to one of the two sexes and not the other.

      When it comes to class warfare, equality can be achieved.

      Because while intelligence and skill and talent may not be equally distributed, the right to live is.

      • 5too@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        3 hours ago

        The problems with deciding things are “equal-ish” have already been well addressed, so I just want to point out - just because the billionaire class might use a topic as a wedge issue against us doesn’t excuse us from working to fix it.

        They might be setting fire to houses as a distraction, but the houses are still on fire. The people inside can’t wait for us to find and deal with whoever hired the arsonists.

        • kingofras@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          2 hours ago

          I completely agree with you, and that’s a great analogy.

          Cartoons like this post aren’t helping the firemen and women though. And if it isn’t helping them, who is it helping?

    • FishFace@piefed.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      ·
      1 day ago

      If feminists are allowed to be egalitarian but focus on issues which harm women, others (whatever label they have) can be egalitarian with a different focus. But it needs to be real equality, not a deflection, like the person in the comic.

      Where it goes wrong is in telling people they can’t focus on specific issues close to their heart, or in telling people that since legal equality has largely been achieved somewhere there’s nothing else to do.

      “All lives matter” was an obvious reaction to a slogan which, to all but existing allies, seemed to be excluding something obvious. BLM people saw rampant violence against black people as evidence that society didn’t think black lives mattered. But that’s not something that comes through when it’s distilled to a slogan.

      The UK currently has an “end violence against women and girls” campaign even though men are more often victims of violence. There are reasons to focus on violence against women, but there are also reasons to focus on other things… there is room for nuance here.

    • AmbitiousProcess (they/them)@piefed.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      38
      ·
      1 day ago

      It’s like saying “I want everyone to be equal” and saying both men and women should be given a 10% pay raise to account for the gender pay gap.

      Sure, you raised women’s wages to cover the gap… but now the gap remains because you also increased men’s by the same amount.

      • Michal@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        20
        ·
        1 day ago

        That’s false. If you want to make everyone equal, you close the pay gap.

        To me, egalitarianism is making sure neither group is treated unfarly, so they should both receive the same pay for the same work, but also the same punishment for the same crime, etc.

      • ThirdConsul@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        1 day ago

        The only wage gap we should be focusing on now is the gap between ultra rich capitalists and the worker class.

        Anything else we can worry after we take care of that dumpster fire.

    • Mr.Chewy@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 day ago

      “So you are a (rule) bender! You traitor, I devoted my life to you!”

      (attacks the blood bender since that’s a great idea)

  • Avicenna@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    21
    ·
    edit-2
    1 day ago

    If a particular group of people (be it gender wise, race wise or whatever) are being treated unequally, it sounds like a retarded stupid board game to try to point this out without actually using this group’s name.

          • frog_brawler@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            1 day ago

            If the word isn’t being used in reference to people with mental disabilities it’s not the problematic context.

            • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              17 hours ago

              That’s not how it works. I’m sorry you disagree with English, but people are able to be hurt but words not pointed directly at them.

            • DrivebyHaiku@lemmy.ca
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              10
              ·
              edit-2
              1 day ago

              If you are using a word to refer to a person as belonging to any group with the intent to label that person as lesser or some kind of failure state of being then you are by extention calling anyone being part of that group as being something people wouldn’t want to be. You are implying members of the group are inferior.

              Examples :

              Calling someone “gay” in a way to mean “uncool”. You are implying that a person should never want to be gay. That being gay - is bad. Inferior to being straight.

              “You ____ like a girl!” Your underlying premise is that being female is a failure state. You should be angry at being compared to something who lesser than you. This could apply to looks, ability, mannerisms etc. Hence it implies being a woman is a failure state as opposed to being a man.

              Calling someone “the R-slur” when you mean something like “asinine”, “idiotic”, “mean” or “silly” you are implying those groups are failure states of being who those behaviours can be appended to as an expectation. That is a slur This sentiment is the same if you were to change the word you used but the specific history of this specific word as a slur is based on it’s once widespread use in context of being a synonym for “stupid” . Now it is less widespread but as the comic that spurred this conversation shows- it is still being used in the context of being a failure state. Intent makes the slur. If people didn’t use the word to refer to people in a way that was supposed to make them sit up and be indignant they are being compared to a disabled person it never would have become a slur. Since parlance never popularized the other use of the word as a verb “to stop or hinder” and the use of this one as a slur is still active it is far too early to attempt to “reclaim” this one.

              You can argue “well a new word will just gain slur status!” and the answer is no. The problem stops when you realize the underlying problem is intent the lesson is understood and society stops creating new slurs by implying inferiority through context. English is vast. Use a word without the connotation of belonging to a specific group and you stop the underlying problem.

              • Malfeasant@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                21 hours ago

                I think you have it backwards - calling someone a slur doesn’t make the negative association, society as a whole has already decided those traits are negative, and as a result, we use them as slurs. Stopping people from using hurtful words does not fix the problem, I think it lets some people self-righteously think they’re helping, but it doesn’t really do anything.

                We’ve seen that happen with using “gay” as an insult - society has shifted over the years, so that being gay is no longer seen as a bad thing (at least not so much so as it was in the 90s, we still have some room for improvement…) therefore it has lost its power as an insult. Somebody calls me gay today, I don’t really care - it’s inaccurate, but it doesn’t hurt me any. And because it doesn’t hurt me, they’re not going to use it as an insult, because that’s what they’re going for, and it’s not effective.

                But certain classes of people will always be looked down on, so those traits will always be used as insults. If society makes it unacceptable to use those words, assholes will continue to use them when they think they can get away with it, or find new words. Think of how many words there are for “mentally deficient”. Many of those words were the clinical term for specific disabilities until they fell out of favor after being used as insults. Stupid is one, as is idiot, moron… The only real difference is recency.

                • 5too@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  3 hours ago

                  We’ve seen that happen with using “gay” as an insult - society has shifted over the years, so that being gay is no longer seen as a bad thing

                  I don’t remember that “just happening”… I remember prominent members of the homosexual community deciding to reclaim the word “gay”, and then working to bring the more neutral connotations into the mainstream - and that effort is still ongoing.

                  The people targeted by the slur had to have the resources and ability to change public perception before that could happen, and it took a considerable, concerted effort. It did not just “shift”, and that process is not equally available to every target of a slur.

                • DrivebyHaiku@lemmy.ca
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  17 hours ago

                  Slurs have a couple of different ways of coming about. Calling someone “gay” in the context of being uncool or unmanly was one whete the attitude shifted but consider that because of underlying attitude of homophobia became more appearant to the average listener in the attempt to use it in context of a slur. Once something reflects the small mindedness of the speaker more than insults the listener it does lose it’s power.

                  Now consider something you said about the disability community :

                  But certain classes of people will always be looked down on, so those traits will always be used as insults

                  There is a very large body of disability advocacy that is involved in fighting for a social attitude where this is not the case. In fact it hasn’t always been the case. Our concept of “normal” is historically more recent than you would think and people with mental disabilities in the English world were not really considered a distinct class. You are taking for granted that the disability community will be considered inferior by the wider population because you cannot imagine a state otherwise. That is ableism my friend and it doesn’t change unless you look it in the face and recognize it for what it is.

                  A fundamental thing lacking in your understanding of slurs is your insistance that their existence is a full negative for the community that they are levied against. It is more useful to look at the designation of slurs almost more as a form of technology those communities use both as a form of self advocacy to spread awareness of underlying prejudices and to identify individuals and groups who hold them particular opposition or threat. They aren’t just about “getting upset” or giving people an avenue to press buttons.

                  Consider the “N-slur” in light of it being a technology. Those who use it are either :

                  • Identifying themselves as a member of the ‘in’ group and using it as a means of solidarity.

                  • Identifying themselves as an individual that believes they have “the right” to use the slur companionably thus often identifying themselves as a problem who at best doesn’t quite understand the assignment or at worst believes they can make unilateral decisions as part of a group to which they do not belong presenting a threat

                  • Identifying themselves as a legitimate threat by using the word with the full weight of it’s oppressive and derogatory context.

                  This is legitimately words as weapons of war. A technique hit upon by modern civil rights movements as a means of fighting back. The meeting place of sociology and etymology where people started looking at words beyond strict meaning. What you are attempting to do is disarm a community making use of this but in reality you are identifying yourself using this tech as the second form of threat. The one that treats advocacy as a lost cause because the idea of implicit inferiority is so ingrained you can’t see the paternalism.

              • frog_brawler@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 day ago

                LMAO, ok so I don’t need a lecture. We’re not talking about using “gay” as a pejorative. That’s not the same word that’s being discussed here. Nor are we talking about using femininity as a negative state.

                The “R” word originally meant “to slow” or to hold back progress. That’s what it meant before the medical community misappropriated the term for individuals with intellectual disabilities. At some point after that, the word changed into an informal pejorative and then became taboo. At this point, there’s very viable uses of the word that correlate with politics and perspectives that are counter-progressive.

                • DrivebyHaiku@lemmy.ca
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  23 hours ago

                  You appearantly do need the lecture because you are not listening. There are plenty of words you can use without using one that, misappropriated or not, was and still is used to describe the disability community and is now primarily linked to that understanding.

                  Your statement of “well words are fine if they aren’t used at the people who they are meant for” is inherently incorrect, hence the examples each is an example of using the word in a disrespectful or phobic context. What you are proposing is using a word linked through current pejorative use to the disability community to be expanded to not just be used in the context of “stupid” but to now mean essentially “facist” because… Why? You particularly like the word?

                  That’s not better.

            • samus12345@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              ·
              edit-2
              1 day ago

              So if someone uses the N word slur for black people to refer to non-black people they dislike, it’s okay?

              • frog_brawler@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 day ago

                Well, it never was used as a term for “people that are disliked.” Regardless, it depends on intent and context, more often than the alternative, probably not… but etymologically speaking, it should (and needs to) change as a purposeful and intentional way to de-power the current general understanding of the word.

                Society as a whole cannot collectively agree on nuance. That’s the problem with a lot of this. Words that started off neutral became harmful over time due to context and etymology. The N word didn’t originally have a racial connotation. It gained one over time and was assigned through racism.

                • samus12345@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  6
                  ·
                  1 day ago

                  Well, it never was used as a term for “people that are disliked.”

                  Bullshit. You’ve never heard kids online use it an an insult toward anyone regardless of race? Or Pewdiepie using it as a general insult? It absolutely happens.

                  Regardless, you don’t get to decide if an insult is offensive to a particular group. You can certainly keep using it after knowing it is, but you’ll be an asshole for doing so.

        • Deceptichum@quokk.auOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          ·
          edit-2
          1 day ago

          In typical usage, retard (pronounced /ˈɹiː.tɑːɹd/, REE-tard) is an ableist slur for someone who is considered stupid, slow to understand, or ineffective in some way as a comparison to stereotypical traits perceived in those with intellectual disability. The adjective retarded is used in the same way, for something or someone considered very foolish or stupid. The word is sometimes censored and referred to as the euphemistic “r‑word” or “r‑slur” ‎ ‎ Retard was previously used as a medical term.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retard_(pejorative)

          • frog_brawler@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            10
            ·
            1 day ago

            Yea, and from the same wiki article:

            The word retard dates as far back as 1426. It stems from the Latin verb retardare, meaning “to hinder” or “make slow”.

            Much like today’s socially acceptable terms idiot and moron, which are also defined as some sort of mental disability, when the term retard is being used in its pejorative form, it is usually not being directed at people with intellectual disabilities. Instead, people use the term when teasing their friends or as a general insult.

          • samus12345@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            edit-2
            24 hours ago

            Retard was previously used as a medical term.

            As was idiot, cretin, moron, and imbecile, which suffered similar misuse.

          • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            24 hours ago

            In typical usage

            so you agree it is a multifaceted word that requires contextual definition in order to be used properly.

            The noun retard is recorded from 1788 in the sense “retardation, delay;” from 1970 in the offensive meaning “retarded person,” originally American English, with accent on first syllable. Other words used for “one who is mentally retarded” include retardate (1956, from Latin retardatus), and U.S. newspapers 1950s-60s often used retardee (1950).

            https://www.etymonline.com/word/retarded

            It’s unfair to judge a word that has over 500 years of use on the last 70 years of history.

            • 5too@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              3 hours ago

              It’s unfair to judge a word that has over 500 years of use on the last 70 years of history.

              A bridge that has stood for 500 years can be considered unusable today due to recent developments.

              The word clearly isn’t having the effect you say you want. The solution isn’t to bemoan the poor treatment of the word - the solution is to change the word you use.

              You have many options - be creative!

              • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                46 minutes ago

                more analogies that have no other purpose but to oversimplify and confuse the topic. I can’t fault you though, if this is the best way you can understand language. you tried your best after all.

                if the intent of the speaker is misunderstood by the listener it’s the listeners fault for misinterpreting and failing to understand contextual intonation.

                simply put, the speaker speaks and the listener listens. intent is conveyed through our words and their meaning. if the listener misinterprets the meaning based on context given, it’s the listeners fault.

                have you observed that when listening to the speech of someone who is classically educated that their vocabulary seems to be endlessly descriptive and their intent often lost on the uneducated masses? that those with higher education are often ostracized or mocked because they are perceived as “thinking they’re better”.

                that’s because the uneducated masses fail to understand the meaning of the words they speak. the peasants fail to understand the nobility of the spoken word. they simply use common to communicate with their simpleminded friends and neighbors.

                I’m sure at this point you have clearly understood my intent of this comment.

                if not, read a book.

        • Avicenna@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          1 day ago

          Yea this is a slippery slope though, you can play this game with every word and easily turn it into a discussion in bad faith. English, not being my mother tongue, when I think of the word “retarded”, I automatically think of the word as related to describing foolish and stupid actions. But I do also know, on a higher level, that it actually is a medical term. So I am not against this correction (I would for instance be more careful at not be using the anologous word in my language in such a sentence).

          • SourGumGum@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            1 day ago

            Retarded is an outdated medical term, we use terminology such as intellectual disability these days because of the stigma behind the R word.

            • Avicenna@programming.dev
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              1 day ago

              Agreed, in its core the problem lies in people’s inclination to be ableist. Whether or not making people conscious of usage of ableist terminology in sentences is helpful to this problem, I am not really sure. But I am also not against it.

                • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  23 hours ago

                  though I’m disappointed that you believe the history of language is irrelevant, I’m happy you feel that way!

                  in the original comment, they used it in a way to describe a board game, not against a person or people.

                  so no issue, right?

      • Avicenna@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        ok I suppose stupid does not necessarily isolate a group of people as it is a general adjective, otherwise we are a bit out of luck because it is also very hard to describe something strongly unpleasent without using such adjectives

        • EightLeggedFreak@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          1 day ago

          Most of the time, whenever I see folks using the slur, I feel the word “asinine” would work just as well.

          Other words that normally fit are: ludicrous, brainless, or downright silly.

          • Malfeasant@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 day ago

            But sometimes you want to convey the backwardness, or that something is a product of a past that should be let go… is it still a slur if you’re not using it as a slur? Kind of like cracker, if you’re using it to refer to a white person it’s a slur, but nobody is going to stop you from calling a saltine or a cheese-it a cracker because that’s what they are… Or do we have to call them mass produced unleavened bread products?

            • EightLeggedFreak@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              1 day ago

              Antiquated or barbaric (amongst others, language is diverse) are words that may express what you’re feeling. Of course, words have multiple meanings and those meanings change over time. Moron was used to describe a deficient intellectual capacity in a medical sense as well, however while an insult, it hasn’t adopted the slur title (maybe it has in some circles idfk). FR clothing is an example where the word is using the same definition as the insult, but describing a physical property instead of an abstract one.

              At the end of the day, I usually try to avoid language and actions that are hurtful. With that being said, you can’t satisfy everyone, thus everyone has their own decisions on what values they wish to uphold.

  • Golden@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    43
    ·
    edit-2
    1 day ago

    Hippy, politically correct, feminist, SJW, woke…

    It doesn’t matter how many times you rebrand ~not being an awful person~ people will always make goodness the enemy

      • 5too@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        3 hours ago

        Somehow whenever people bemoaned “social justice warriors”, I always pictured Lex Luthor slandering Superman.

        • Tattorack@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          2 hours ago

          Except Superman is the role model that SJWs imagine themselves to be, while holding not a single one of Superman’s qualities.