Right. I spent the last several hours trying to get a mixed batch of Win10, Win11, and Win10-upgraded-from-8 computers to talk to a printer and had just about enough of this argument. If you want a pissing match of who can be the biggest dick, take it to Twitter.
Locked.
But like - use Linux?
My employer keeps saying I can’t do this
Oh easy. Just use Linux
Overthrow that guy, he is clearly unqualified. Power to the people.
There’s only so much incessant bitching I can hear about dark patterns, intrusive automatic updates, shoehorned-in and useless AI, zero user choice, planned obsolesence, and being blindsided by enshittification before I say “just try using the free thing that doesn’t have those problems”.
“I’ve tried nothing, and I’m all out of ideas.” If you have to for work or something, though, I totally get it and encourage the bitching.
They literally pointed out that a lot of the people saying this kind of stuff may genuinely be unskilled when it comes to computers in general.
Why is it “trying nothing” when the other option to get up to speed enough to use Linux is to basically be taking some college-level courses on the side of their every day life just to be able to use their device appropriately?
For people who aren’t tech savvy at all, “Ain’t nobody got the time for that!” is a completely fucking reasonable response to being told they need to go learn a bunch of shit about some subject they could give a rats ass about.
It’s like telling someone who has a law degree and works 50 hours a week at a law firm that if they want more control over their car they need to take some courses on automotive repair so they don’t have to deal with an annoying repair shop. As above, ain’t nobody got the time for that!
Literally every Linux nerd seems to forget that this is specialized knowledge that not everyone has dumped skill points into.
You don’t have to know much. It’d be like convincing somehow to learn to change a tire. Yeah you gotta figure it out for a sec, but it’s not a whole as master class or anything.
Accessibility point aside, just because I can’t speak on that not having had to use the features, people that don’t fix their own shit on Linux aren’t fixing their own shit on windows/iOS either, aside from the occasional flat tire. That was the point I was trying to make. Those who do their own troubleshooting will learn no problem.
Those who do their own troubleshooting will learn no problem.
That stance I can agree with, but I fundamentally do not agree that Linux is appropriate for the kind of people who don’t do their own troubleshooting. Because my point is that is specialized knowledge that not everyone has the time to give to, which is why a lot of people don’t troubleshoot their own shit, because they have spent their skill points elsewhere.
Trust me I have met lawyers and doctors who are fucking mystified by computers and don’t even want to get into learning the troubleshooting. That’s what they have IT departments for. Similarly, changing a tire might just be too much trouble for them and that’s why they pay other people to do it.
Yeah I get it, but windows isn’t ready for those users either. In my experience, I fuck with them just about the same. How I fuck with them is often different, but I still have to. In fact, I have to fuck with windows so much because it’s my job to do it, that’s my main driver for using Linux is so I don’t feel like I’m at home working when something fucks up.
I will say though, even if you disagree that theyre on par with each other as far as mundane fuckups go, Linux is and has been closing in super fast, and I’m pretty damn excited about it
But if Windows isn’t ready for those users either, why are people in this thread shitting all over them for not switching to something else they’re not ready for? They’ll complain either way when shit doesn’t work.
Not everyone knows how to, or is physically able to, cook food, but its pretty rare for people to get angry and offended if someone tries to suggest a recipe to them. People do that a lot with computers though.
In 2025, you (in the general sense, not @SnotFlickerman specifically) are not entitled to be unskilled and bitch about it. You are being made to care about how to properly deal with technology, because you cannot function in society without some baseline level of computer literacy.
Don’t like it? Go live in a fucking shack in the woods, like the Unabomber.
Yea, so this whole argument falls apart with all the easy beginner distros. They’re out of the box easy to use and require minimal computer skills beyond knowing your password, how to use a mouse, and how to use a keyboard. Drivers may not be perfect for everything like your gpu, but if you’re using a GPU you probably have enough vomputer skills to google why the driver ism’t working.
“Uh, I bought my computer from Alienware. I don’t know what a GPU is.”
We need some repair cafe type setup where linux nerds get to set up linux on people’s machines.
Nah, it will never work. Grandma Esthel is gonna get Arch Linux on her 20yo machine and everyone is gonna be unhappy still.I feel like so many people are basing their opinion of Linux on outdated ideas of what it can and can’t do.
There are distros that are incredibly fucking simple and stable. Easier and faster to set up than Windows.
I hear you, but in a lot of these cases the people with complaints are not competent. Anyone who has worked helpdesk or adjacent has seen boatloads of 'em. Imagine I’m an oldie or fool or even grew up without electrical power and I barely know how a computer works. I don’t really want to work with them and I think turning the monitor on and off is a reboot. Windows is horrible with all this bloat and AI and so much confusing shit but usability-wise it makes some sense I guess. I could do with a change but I can’t do anything confusing or outside of my limited range. I’m probably not installing a good distro. I am not partitioning a drive. I am not creating a bootable USB. What do I do?
The only option here is to have them go out on a limb and buy a machine online pre-installed with Linux or have someone else set it up, right?
What do I do?
Not literally, of course. But if you don’t have the baseline level of skill to exist in a technological society without being absolutely reamed by predatory corporations and other scammers and also refuse help to learn how to defend yourself, at some point that’s a “you” problem and you deserve to fucking lose.
While I agree with the “fuck 'em” attitude to a certain extent I’m not sure that should apply to the entire gradient of differently abled. A lot of people who are mentally infirm have to continue to work in this hellscape and may have real roadblocks preventing learning about 'puters and the interweb and there’s not a whole lot of resources anyway for people who don’t live in the city. But yeah I don’t expect a magic answer. Your GIF might actually be the best way haha.
Boomerism is not a mental illness they just don’t understand computers
I have a fundamental problem with this attitude. If you recognize there’s a problem, and the problem disturbs you, and you CAN fix it, why not fix it? It’s not world hunger, it’s a computer for God’s sakes. Maybe I don’t want to hear people complain about problems that are 100% within their control and refuse to fix it.
Not about GNU/Linux. Just my thoughts on complaining about simple problems with easy solutions.
Edit: typo
Literally read the post and just decided to ignore the two examples huh?
If you recognize there’s a problem, and the problem disturbs you, and you CAN fix it, why not fix it?
Because if the fix for any particular problem is to learn a new OS, that’s a steep cost for things that can just be minor annoyances. If you’re in Lemmy, chances are you’re comfortable with nerdy shit, and not everyone is.
On top of that, Linux has its own quirks, so it’s not a panacea. There’s no easy way for me to change scroll speed on a track pad in fedora/gnome, for example.
”Linux is only free if your time is worthless” springs to mind.
Sunk cost though. You spent the time learning Windows. At least Linux is far more likely to be an enduring skill that won’t try to monetise your time investment by trying to balance enshittifying your experience the perfect amount just enough that you don’t jump ship.
With that attitude, nothing is free. And the “free” in free and open-source means free as in free speech, not as in free beer. Your comment is also generally disrespectful to the people who invest actual time into creating the software that you rely on everyday and take for granted. FOSS software is deployed all over the world and there is no software environment that does not make use of it in some form, not even MS Windows. So you think the time of the people who put their skills to use for the betterment of computing overall is worthless? You guys do not even begin to understand how many resources and how much thought is expended by strangers for your comfort.
Relax, it’s just a joke almost as old as Linux itself.
I installed Mint on my MIL computer. I did not have to spend time teaching her anything. People are able to switch from Windows to Apple no problem but for some reason Linux is
learn a new OS, that’s a steep cost
But using Linux is not a solution, that is the whole point of the post. Why can’t you read?
I CAN NOT install a different OS on my work computer because I do not manage them and NONE of our company software works on Linux.
I’d get more use out of it if I just smash my computer with a brick than if I switched the OS to Linux.
If enough people bring it up to their work, then the policy can be re-evaluated.
I take it to the next level and rant at our CEO about it. We’ve actually saved a good amount of money with Linux.
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This is the level of delusion the average Linux evangelist operates at.
Thinking you should leave an abusive boyfriend / girlfriend is delusional now?
Shh, just let them complain about their boyfriend.
This brings back bad memories lol
You mean from just now? Otherwise I don’t get the reference
Thinking its as simple as “Just leave your boyfriend” is pretty fucking delusional, yeah.
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are you saying ms is not invading users’ privacy by scanning all their files, contents included, it possible? while also removing more and more control options over how the system runs
I feel like they’re saying that what you described doesn’t equate to do getting hit in the face by your boyfriend, which is subjective.
its_a_metaphore.avi
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Did Lemmy just compare using a computer to domestic abuse… really…
That’s some out of touch bullshit. These are not comparable on any level. I get this is a meme section for Linux, but it’s some out of touch bullshit.
Isn’t Microsoft slowly pushing its fist into your ass?
I’d just like to point out that not only are you minimizing the harm of domestic abuse with this comparison, but you are now doubling down on it.
I am not.
If you are hurt you should get help.
That’s not a debatable matter, friend, you already did it. You compared bad software to domestic abuse, which minimizes domestic abuse to the intensity of someone using Windows
How this same conversation can sound to non-technical folks:
“my boyfriend left his dirty socks in the living room AGAIN.”
“Well maybe you should switch boyfriends”
“…what?”
Blissful ignorance.
Are we really going to start enlightened centrist memes over Linux?
I say this as someone who daily drives Linux on their framework laptop, who self hosts jellyfin, home assistant, searxng, ollama, etc.
For a lot of folks, their lives don’t revolve around computers. I know that folks on Lemmy tend to skew more towards that computer lifecycle, but we gotta recognize that we’re out of the norm in that regard.
So what? I’m tired of shit aimed at the lowest common denominator and won’t comment as if I need to appeal to or be understood by those who can’t be bothered to learn a bit about things that play a major role in society.
They are tired of hearing about linux? Well I’m tired of hearing about whining about windows, plus I blame their inattention for enablong the enshitification in the first place because windows would be much better if more people were willing to look at alternative options. A lot of shit would be better if that were the case.
Though usually I don’t bother engaging at all and only really engage when there’s pushback saying it’s hard (I found it less effort overall than installing windows and getting it to a state where I don’t hate interacting with it so much), or these kind of arguments that imply because it’s not as accessible a lot of people, it shouldn’t be brought up or something?
“you are constantly complaining to me about your boyfriend and he doesn’t seem to listen to you. Why are you still with him?”
It’s the nail in the head all over again
The fediverse is definitely a “I use Linux, please clap” kinda crowd.
Whereas Windows is the clap.
More like the “if you use STILL use windows don’t bitch about it because weve all been there and are over it” community. Like i dont know what it is with windows users that you all wanna have your obesity support group and complain about your problems to everyone but then get pissed off when people say exercise and eat less. Thats not even a good example because theres plenty of reasons beyond a persons control why they might be obese. But i bet even the people with thyroid issues get annoyed when the guy who eats ten cheeseburgers says “my knees hurt all the time and nothing helps”
I don’t use Windows.
For real tho
Your comment also made me realise just how many posts I have seen complaining about non-linux users not using Linux, but how few I have seen complaining about using windows or w/e. Was the same on reddit and the same here now.
Yeah, I have had several people automatically assume I use Windows, and I don’t as my daily machine. I couldn’t give two flips about MS, really.
I don’t even dislike Linux. But a lot of these users here, man, just woof. A lot of these folks will point fingers and say Mac people are all Mac zombies and that’s bad, but then turn around and kiss that grainy photo of Linus Torvalds where he’s standing in front of an old, shitty computer.
Found the windows user
Nope.
I use Arch by the way
Don’t care, use Linux.
It’s the ethical choice.
Don’t put yourself in the learned helplessness box
Imagine using Linux and it isn’t Hannah Montana Linux.
I can’t even.
I want to see someone install HML and upgrade it to 24.04, including crossgrading to x64, just to see how much of it survives
The gall of you, thinking it’s possible to improve upon perfection.
Oh it’s perfect as long as you never try to connect it to the Internet
Hannah Montana Linux IS the internet
People trying to shame us encouraging people switching to a OS that respects our privacy from the shit show Microsoft has become makes me roll my eyes every single time.
We pass so much of our time in front of a screen. Why not do it while retaining our freedom as much as we can? Sure, if you must use it for work, it is what it is, but Linux is definitely something worth learning using no matter what your technical level is.
If you can navigate through Windows with some degree of confidence, you absolutely can use Linux effectively. You can go full GUI no problem if you want to.
Linux is so easy nowaday. Yeah, some niche things might require some digging around, but that’s nothing compared to the bullshit you have to accept from Microsoft.
If it’s not for work, I’m sorry but use Linux or stop bitching. The correct answer will always be don’t use the trojan OS.
I learned more in 3 years of using Linux than I did in 20 of using windows about how pcs work
Ill shame you all because most of you come off as complete pricks about it. Its very rarely presented as an answer, and more of a boast. Like using linux makes you a big brain, and using windows makes you a dumb dumb. Theres a hostility in the exchange. An implied superiority, or in some cases, and outright stated superiority.
See also, people who say “Just buy a Toyota” whenever anyone complains about their car. Because no one ever had any issues with a Toyota in the history of the brand…
If it’s not for work, I’m sorry but use Linux or stop bitching.
You really think anyone is listening to you anymore after saying that?
Boss told me I couldn’t use EndeavourOS because “it doesn’t work with M$ InTune”.
So I said if I could make an old unused laptop work with that setup, maybe the company could turn that into a pilot system and we could be more sexy to new developers we want to hire.
Boss said why not. IT said sure, here’s your laptop, have fun.
A few months later, a couple of devs have switched to Linux. Some have kept Windows. Some didn’t care because they have Macs. Everyone’s happy, we have more options, and everyone can choose what they subjectively feel is the best tool for the job - which is what professionals do instead of fighting.
And we actually hired a new dev who uses Linux.
Boss told me I couldn’t use EndeavourOS because “it doesn’t work with M$ InTune”.
That’s technically not true, it will work but with the caveat that Intune will show the device as non-compliant for the OS itself. If the OS version isn’t included in any of the applied policies then it shouldn’t matter.
You’re right, but I did manage to make the device show up as a compliant Linux laptop in their Intune UI, and that was all that mattered to them.
They don’t care that you have to make Intune think the distro is Ubuntu when it’s in fact EndeavourOS. Some necktie people were satisfied with the result and devs can now use Linux. Après moi, le déluge.
The necktie people’s understanding of tech is probably limited to “green good red bad” while looking at spreadsheets. It’s better if they don’t know about whatever wizardry you performed.
Ok, now I’m actually curious how you managed to do that. Please do tell!
Do you have a few minutes to talk about our lord and saviour, Linus Torvalds?
Allow me to interject for a moment to talk about our holy father Richard Stallman…
Recite the GPL in its entirety over a bag of Fritos a la the Eucharist. The Fritos will transsubstantiate into that thing he ate off his foot that one time.
Perhaps you’d be more interested to meet our dapper mascot…
Xenia?
Curse you, filthy heretic!
If i have to listen to people complain, then they can listen to the rational and obvious solution to their problem. It doesn’t add anything of value you say? What value is there in your complaining? If i have to hear you bitch about something thats easily avoidable im gonna call yout out for it. It goes both ways.
There is more value in complaining than there is in giving dumb “solutions”.
Dumb “solutions” don’t solve anything ever.
Complaining at least can lead to GOOD solutions.
As someone who switched to linux relatively recently… It’s not a dumb solution at all. It’s THE solution.
ok so a couple things for the people in this thread:
- sometimes, when people complain, they don’t want advice. they just want to vent their frustration. that’s ok. your advice is just gonna come off as annoying, especially
- if they’ve heard it a billion times already. and trust me, if you’re on the fediverse and complain about windows or macos, you’ve heard “just use linux lol” before.
- holy shit stop doing victim blaming. this goes for everything btw. like. stop. “lol your fault for using windows” shut up. if you’re already doing victim blaming for trivial stuff, i don’t trust you for when much more serious problems arise.
You’re not a victim for using windows, you’re a consumer. “I cant stop using windows because i have stockholm syndrome don’t blame me” is like the most unhinged take ive heard so far and is super disrespectful to anyone whos actually been a victim of just about anything.
I would like to imagine you say these same things every single time grocery store packaging gets a little bit smaller.
Huh? I think I would just go for the better, cheaper (free?) alternative
Farmers markets?
What I’m suggesting is that if we’re going to pretend that consumers are never victims of company practices, then emeralddawn specifically should never, ever, ever complain about shrinkflation. Or $80 video games, as far as I’m concerned.
But who knows. Perhaps they don’t.
These are decent points, but if you would use Linux you would not have these problems! You would have different problems, but somehow blame others, like why didn’t make X decent drivers for Linux, or why am I still forced to use Teams…
My takeaway from point 1 is to rephrase my advice as a complaint:
“Man, it sucks you have that problem with Windows. I’ve been struggling with a computer problem of my own actually. I’ve been getting really down down thinking about all the Windows users out there who just have no clue about how the power of Linux could change their lives for the better”
This makes you sound like a Jehova’s witness.
The main problem is that linux people are politically linux people, their morals and identity are strongly attached to their OS choice, and they have no social skills.
You can advocate for linux to windows people all you like, you just can’t be annoying. A lot of linux people are really fucking annoying.
This makes you sound like a Jehova’s witness.
Idk if that’s a valid comparison… being a Jehovah’s witness doesn’t save you a penny in software licensing costs
The comparison is the door-to-door evangelism, i.e., it’s really easy to tell that that phrasing has an ulterior motive. Kinda like how “Netflix and chill” does not mean “let’s watch Netflix.”
They’re just saying it sounds like them, not that it’s the same thing. They believe they’re saving your soul.
If I have to see you whining about windows, you have to see me shilling for linux.
/s
This but without the /s
Don’t give me the solution waaaah!
