This does unfortunately happen multiple times per day. Sometimes it’s smaller incidents where the tram driver can get out and collapse the car’s mirror. Other times the owner of the car comes out of a nearby house after the tram used its bell extensively (like today) and moves the car. And then there are times when police needs to get involved to tow the car which often takes upwards of 1 hour.
The truly infuriating part is that if the tram damages a poorly parked car, the transportation company will have to pay the damages. Poorly parked vehicles never get fined and the owners will only need to pay if the car ends up getting towed.
Why do we accept that drivers sabotage a city’s public transport infrastructure like this?
The lack of a fine for that is insane.
It’s eatablished common law. Park your steam powered velocipede in a right of way and one can suck it.
The lack of “just fucking ram it” is insane.
This is mainly an enforcement problem. If the city simply towed every car that did this, this sort of shit would stop immediately. But of course nobody wants to hurt the precious little feefees of car drivers because they’re very very special little snowflakes.
It’d be even better for the tram to just push the car put of the way, and then hold the car owner responsible for any damage that results.
Agree. In plenty of big EU cities, the tram driver would just call a number, and the car gets towed in 15 minutes. We can’t expect everybody to obey the laws out of kindness to others. For some, enforcement in needed
15 minutes is a way too looooong time for this. A good network has a tram every 5-10 minutes, that’s already a big tram Stau and a lot of missed connections for passengers. There just shouldn’t be street side parking options right next to tram tracks.
I’m surprised there wouldn’t be vulture tow truck drivers looking out for these cars and waiting to tow immediately.
would it be a controversial opinion that those trams should be strong enough to ram and move those cars, the owner is then responsible to pay for the fines, damages to his own vehicle, and whatever damages the ramming has caused to the tram.
They most likely are, but they are also full of passengers.
I’m thinking slowly pushing it safely.
not too ram it at full speed. although that would be fun.
ACCELERATE TO RAMMING SPEED, ENSIGN!
And running over loose metal parts and carbon fiber is mechanically undesirable.
Bill the driver who parked on the way.
that’s what they are called!
And Mythbusters proved it can work: https://youtu.be/WK6NBsWOi7A
who wouldn’t want that in the middle of the city…
not being sarcastic, I do want that
It doesn’t need to fling the cars onto the tram. That might damage the tram.
Just nudge them out of the way with no concern for their vehicle.
And if the car damages something else on the side of the road, hold its owner responsible for those damages too.
If they didn’t want to be held responsible they shouldn’t have parked in a tram line 🤷♂️
I know in Melbourne at least, trams collide with cars pretty frequently. For some reason people think it’s a good idea to u-turn when they’re approaching. The trams rarely seem to be damaged. It’s not fun for passengers though.
Maybe the next World Tram Championships should add an event: the Car Toss. That would help people visualise the consequences of leaving vehicles too close to tracks.
The driver should be able to use the PA to announce “this is your driver, prepare for ramming speed, brace for impact”… But the trams should also be equipped with something that could key cars parked close to the tracks. That way nobody would chance it parking a little close.
I don’t mean like a machete, that would probably not go over well at the stops. Just something that would scratch any car coming with 5cm of the tram.
the scratching thing is just punitive, if someone parked in a safe distance then it’s fine, if they aren’t, then fuck em, ruin their car.
adding a device that would cause damage for the sake of it seems too extra.
and whenever the driver says “brace for impact” I’m sure all the passengers will clap and love it.
That’s actually a good idea. Put some retractable Houston swangers on that shit. People will give you a very wide birth
In the spirit of controversial opinions, wouldn’t those cars be the best targets for robbery?
You go in the night, break in, steal some shit, then in the morning the police come and move the car, theft is hard to solve as it is, the added confusion must be helpful for the robber.
Good idea. It should be legal to steal cars that are parked on the tracks.
The problem solves itself
not sure how it relates?
if park on the tram path you get your car hit by a tram and robbed?
more incentive not to park there.
more incentive not to park there.
Yes, that was my general idea, but also was an intrusive thought, there are better ways to discourage this behavior i think.
If I’m not mistaken, that’s the case in Brussels:
Trams ALWAYS have priority. Whatever happens, if a car collid with a tram, the car is at fault.A friend who used to live there told me its true even if the car is empty and the tram hit it… Repeteadly…Edit: see below comment, much more complete answer!
Lol I cracked. Thank you for sharing
In Belgium it works like this: If the tram could seemingly pass, but the tram driver was mistaken, then the car owner + insurance has to pay the tram company for the damage/delay/towing. If the tram driver has to stop and wait for the car to get towed, then the car owner + their insurance have to pay for towing costs + the tram delay. In theory anyway: I don’t know hard the enforcement is, maybe they only try to go after delay costs if they are significant.
Dutch article with 2 examples, first one with car at fault, 2nd one with bus at fault: https://mijnverkeersongeval.be/nl/faq_categories/aansprakelijkheid/bijzondere-gevallen/tram
Big fine + towed car. Even those car brains will learn.
and stop paying for damages ffs that’s crazy
Expensive tow, impound or seize car, big fine, jail
They’ll learn a lot faster. Tow trucks will start to line up to tow cars too.
One of the few good uses I saw of privatisation was private tow trucks working for the State - I’ve lived in a couple of countries in Europe and never saw faster towing of vehicles irregularly parked than in Britain were that service had been privatised.
Virtually speaking the tow trucks were pretty much lined up to tow cars.
Probably helps if the Law makes sure the towing fees are high and the costs for the damage from towing are on the car owner.
Ontario has this on the 401 highway in Toronto. The trucks park and wait. As soon as a car breaks down they rush out to get the tow. 1k to be towed off the road, then milage. Its mandated somewhere.
I’ve heard biker gangs are big in this business. Not sure why.
AchBremen.txt
This is particularly bad in this German city, the city state even won a court case that allows on-curb parking, because the city is too afraid of car owners and too little of pedestrians, wheelchair users and bicycle riders.
The sound of the bell makes me so angry.
Sometimes, the tram passengers group up and move small cars out of the tracks manually.
Try Munich. It’s insane.
I mean not so much the tram block parking but the way the whole city is run. BMW, the IAA, the public transport… Ugh.
Having visited Munich I don’t doubt your frustration but by god I’d kill to have that public transport. You even had a lot of bike lanes.
Yes, it’s there and mostly OK. But:
- it’s (very) expensive
- has many issues during rush hour (overcrowded, late, canceled leading to more of the former issues)
- out of rush hour fine but eg on weekends out of service leading to timely unreasonable replacement traffic (eg 1:20 instead of 20 min one way)
What I am trying to say is if you need to be reliable (and who doesn’t?) you still need to have a car or motorcycle to use ad-hoc. And it’ll be cheaper. And also, depending on route, yes but still - often quicker. Although there will be people saying their route is fine and this all looks made up I am speaking from decades of living here now and once you have to change vehicle in public transport it will be an issue to do that daily.
We really need to get rid of BMW commuting with their >6000 (?) cars daily and bump the already (in winter totally) overcrowded public transport.
Did I mention that I had lots of infections when I commuted by public transport?
Disclaimer: all of this is firsthand experience and I subjectively have nothing against BMW or the public transport in general.
The fact that the drivers aren’t fined is what’s most wild to me. Where I live they fine the everliving fuck out of you if you park somewhere you’re not supposed to.
This right here is the answer. These car drivers need absolutely punishing fines if they get in the way of the tram.
One word: Tramdozer
The transportation company is not responsible if passengers break the windows of the car and flatten their tires. I guess doing this a couple of times and the newspapers reporting crazy team users destroying cars on the path of the train will fix the issue.
if the tram damages a poorly parked car, the transportation company will have to pay the damages. Poorly parked vehicles never get fined and the owners will only need to pay if the car ends up getting towed.
THAT is exactly the problem.
The politicians made sure the Law was set-up to benefit car owners and screw the rest, similarly to how drivers will get a mere fine when they kill somebody with their car whilst distracted (say, looking at their mobile phones) in situations which if they didn’t do it behind the wheel of a car would be treated as involuntary homicide (what Americans call manslaughter) and carry a jail sentence, because they didn’t have due care and attention whilst controlling a dangerous piece of machinery.
I once heard (not really sure if it’s true, but damn I would love if it was) about how in Switzerland they had this car tow which was simply a big grab claw - similar to those in junkyards - that just grabbed irregularly park cars from above to put it in the tow truck and, well, any damage to the vehicle was the responsability of the car owner for having parked the car like that
Have something like that and this problem you’re describing (in, judging by the picture, Bremen in Germany) would solve itself within a month as news travelled of car owners doing this shit and getting their car trashed. Then again, German mainstream politicians absolutelly are in the pockets of the car industry (all it takes is to look at how the handling of the Emissions Scandal was basically “blame some random Engineer”, or check which companies get the most subsidies in Germany), so don’t expect pro-people legilstation if it goes against the interests of the car lobby.
what Americans call manslaughter
Yes and no. We use homicide too, but homicide just means one person was killed by another person. That’s used more in medical situations or law enforcement reports. Manslaughter is a legal term and comes in when the state/courts are doing the whole charging part. Then there’s the whole manslaughter vs murder that trips people up too since those are both legal terms. I believe the main difference between them is intent.
That’s the impression I had.
My impression having lived in a couple of places in Europe (including Britain) is that legally speaking what the American Legal System understands as “Manslaughter” is in European legal systems called “Involuntary Killing”, “Involuntary Homicide” or even “Involuntary Murder” (this latter is is confusing when talking to Americans because, if I undestand it correctly, in the American Legal System “Murder” cannot be involuntary as it explicitly means a purposeful killing) or the equivalent in the local language.
Anyways, my point is that people who kill other people not on purpose but as a result of being careless when they are in control of something which can easilly kill if not handled with due care and attention, if they do it whilst driving seldom if ever get charged with a charge of killing somebody due to not being as carefull as they are legally mandated to be, but instead usually just get traffic violating charge which is usually just a fine.
Gotta fine that shit, that is unacceptable, wtf. Weak af.
I assume the spot is clearly labeled for no parking? Just station a tow truck by the offending spot. Someone parks there they get an insta-tow. Word will get around quick enough.
Yeah tow truckers live for this sort of gig, multiple tows per day, while basically hanging out
That’s only in countries where tow trucking of irregularly parked cars has been privatised.
In my own home country - Portugal - it has to be a police tow truck, so parking is naturally a complete total shit show (for example: parking on top of sidewalks is, literally and with no exageration, the norm).
That’s not how this works in Germany. You cannot simply tow cars as you please as a tow truck operator, you need to be called in by the police.
Nope, this is an official parking spot. The guy just parked recklessly and is sticking out too much. But of course you need to have parking spots in this street as to not inconvenience drivers one bit.
Wait, how is the vehicle on rails responsible for hitting anything that isn’t moving?
If the problem is that widespread, couldn’t you hire someone to patrol this track all day with a tow truck and promptly tow away any offenders, financing the operation with the fines that are incurred?
I think the issue is that you can only bill the drivers for the towing plus any costs caused by it. The towing company will not get paid extra for patrolling the area and the 1 hour delay is usually caused by the police that needs to arrive and make the decision to have the car towed.
Yeah that’s the issue, right? No way to enforce it.
The city needs to implement fines for this behavior. If the behavior doesn’t stop, then have a contract with some local towing agency that gives them a larger fine (say, double) for a 5 minute response time (passed on in full to the person being towed), plus a retainer paid for with the fines.
The city could solve this if they wanted to.
There are a lot of legal challenges to solve for this kind of stuff, as far as I know they’re trying to do two things right now:
- they mark the parking spots with blue dots to indicate when a vehicle is sticking out too much (in trial runs this reduced issues significantly) but even that appears to be hard to implement legally
- the transportation company wants to be able to tow the offending vehicles themselves. They already have emergency response vehicles to repair damaged trams and power lines, they could easily add one or two tow trucks to their fleet
And yes they should definitely introduce fines that go far beyond the ridiculously low fines for regular parking offenses in Germany which are like 15€.
Is there any reason the transportation company couldn’t just move the car out of the way? Any legal blocker to just solving the issue without having to issue fines etc?
I don’t know about the specifics but a friend who is a tram driver said that they always need to call the police first. This might be a legal thing or just company policy
Yeah, probably a liability thing. Seems dumb, trams shouldn’t be second class citizens.
I’m surprised it’s not possible for the tram company to sue them for the full costs of the delay: that being a tram line hence the trams not being able to pass a stuck tram, this would add up to just about all the losses of all trams stuck due to this.
Something based on the average ticket price per-passenger, the average number of passengers taken in during such a time period in those lines were the trains were stuck and the length of time period of the stoppage, would add up to way more that €15.
