Its just a building. Just like a flag is just a piece of cloth. Whats a building matter in the face of systematic grift country wide? They’ll burn more of them till people wake the eff up.
nice
I checked a few articles about this. They’re all very short on facts and very long on emotional reactions. This is most definitely being used to discredit otherwise valid protest. Mostly by far-right-leaning outlets. I found only one article that speaks of masked individuals, refrains from blaming the protests and adds overall context, and it’s not in English.
This happened yesterday. It is now Sunday. I will withhold further judgement for a few days.
Two things can be true at once.
I wish people wouldn’t destroy priceless artifacts, buildings, and works of art as a means of protest. Destroying history in an act of passion makes no sense.
I still fully support the French and hope they guillotine some fucking billionaires and their collaborators. Everyone, everywhere is feeling the pinch and it’s heartening to see people fighting for justice.
A riot is the language of the unheard.
Though I agree that it’s sad these things are being destroyed, the people rioting were not being listened to. If the people in power care about these buildings but not your problems, then the only sensible solution is to make your problems affect these buildings.
The idea that a protest or march that inconveniences no one gets anything done has been largely disproven. I don’t live there, but according to articles I’ve read the schools have active mold and pest infestations and are visibly leaking. If the students are mandated to be in buildings that are unsafe then the government should as well. I don’t know know if this was an intentional act, or if it was just an agitator, but I am not going to shed a tear over the destruction of a building being used to protect officials who are unwilling to help the people they are serving, regardless of how irreplaceable the building may be.
I get all of that.
When peaceful action accomplishes nothing, people rightly (and smartly) turn to violence. I can’t blame the French for going all ‘Battle of Blair Mountain’ because these fat bastards in power aren’t doing their jobs.
Intentional or no, buildings like that are priceless and irreplaceable. I wish people had better sense, but poverty and oppression will rob people of good sense.
buildings like that are priceless and irreplaceable.
I get your meaning, but its also Arguable. realistically, it is replaceable. Humanity could rebuild it exactly the same inch by inch if they really wanted to. For not even all that much more than a replacement building. But they wont. Because of economics. So the “value” you speak of has a real actual price – the difference between replacement cost vs replacement-for-cheap cost.
Its destruction also has a meaning which also has value. It is a lasting monument to change-- to action-- to French character. And when a drab, cheap replacement building is put in its place you can bet they will have a picture n the lobby of what used to be there, and why it burned. They will be proud of burning it-- its their culture, and its laudable. It sure beats the Ameriucan passtime of sitting around voting ineffectively or else sitting around waiting for trump to burn the place to the ground so we can start over. I applaud them.
I still think they cant cook a steak right, but the french protesters are heroes in ways we are not, and they are people with some brass balls/ovaries.
Not to press the issue, but you seemed to suggest murder as a viable solution. In my opinion, destroying a building, regardless of it’s age or significance, is not as bad as murder. I get that we’re anti billionaires here, but would you legitimately have preferred that this crowd drag the wealthy out of their homes (likely damaging the homes in the process) and executing them in the street? Would that have seemed more like “good sense” to you?
It seems like we both agree it was time for something drastic, but you seem to suggest this was senseless rather than directed violence.
I’m not making a statement on murder specifically, but I’ll indulge this as an intellectual exercise.
I don’t think it’s a matter of opinion that violence against billionaires is a net good, and we’ve seen it empirically. Remember in 2025 when a health care CEO was murdered in the street in New York? That single act led to tens of thousands of health insurance claims being approved that otherwise would have been denied, potentially saving tens of thousands of lives. These were lives who PAID for a service, only to have it denied so the money could be pocketed.
Tens of thousands of lives that the law and billionaires saw fit to be murdered via private enterprise, to fatten wallets that are already sufficiently fat for their bearers’ permanent economic security.
Why should billionaires expect safety when they’ve created this state of violence for the poor and middle class?
Just so you know, I wasn’t attempting to attribute anything to you unnecessarily. I was mainly going off this from your original comment, which might have been hyperbolic:
hope they guillotine some fucking billionaires and their collaborators
I totally agree with the “no justice no peace” argument, I just was trying to understand why you were suggesting it wasn’t “good sense” to make the legislators scared by attacking their place of work and instead attacking the billionaires. Obviously billionaires are a huge problem, but they are mostly a symptom of a broken political and economic system that does not hold them to account. The issues the protesters seem to have are mostly related to school funding. Billionaires, to my knowledge, cannot personally decide to fund the construction of public schools and increase teacher salaries. They can certainly lobby to have that done, but they are not directly able to change that. Maybe things are really different in France, but the people who can actually make the change now are the officials currently working in government. Scaring THEM into either raising taxes or somehow finding the budget to fix schools seems like the most immediate way to fix the problem. Sure, billionaires may be paying them off, but if they’re worried that these people are going to burn your home next, they’re more likely to do what they want than what the billionaires want. Maybe if you suggested attacking the government officials it would feel different, but the actual problem can be solved by the government so I feel like that is a great place to start. It seemed like you thought it was stupid to attack a government building, but it makes sense to me. Attacking billionaires seems like attacking the symptom of the problem, where the problem is actually that the government no longer works for the people. It may be because they are being bribed, but then the solution seems to be to make the government fear the people again. Don’t get me wrong, I am not defending billionaires, but it seems like the wrong outlet in this case.
The healthcare situation you described improved because the billionaires had direct control over those decisions. Mind you, some people were still not helped, but the issue was with the actions of private companies not the government. If we took it out on officials standing in the way of M4A, think of the lives that could be saved there.
Even though the riot has been questionable in terms of goals and it’s character, it’s been insanely funny to see liberals going mask off everywhere because property damage, especially on reddit and twitter. Really shows where their priorities lie
Must be nice to live in a world where you don’t need to worry about where the money is going to come from to rebuild a building that was burned down.
Here in the real world, we understand the fallacies around broken windows, we know that resources used to fix the damage are resources that won’t be used for making things better. Instead of building housing for the homeless (or anything else you could imagine that would make people’s lives better) they will need to spend resources to rebuild their town hall instead.
This is an action that hurts government services, but I guess you’re pretending it’s some kind of socialist victory to do that?
There’s a significant probability that there was foreign influence involved. Foreign actors seeking to make life worse for people in countries they consider to be their adversaries are always pushing people to burn things down. The end result is whatever movement does this loses all credibility and things get a little worse in the target country.
Nobody in France benefits from this action.
Anyone using the word liberal as a slur is either a nazi or a different kind of nazi. In any case, extremely blockable.
Referring to people who hold liberal positions politically (i.e. pro-market, pro-democracy, pro-private property) as liberals is a slur? Did you just look at my name and immediately assumed the worst without thinking about what I wrote for even a second?
Edit: Judging you from your other comments, you’re literally one of those people lol
https://lemmy.world/comment/26395350
To them right wing just means conservationists? Which is odd as they are against nazis who are right wing and who were most definitely not conservationists
Just read interesting interview about the situation (in Spanish and probably paywalled).
TLDR: Macron in a Lame duck president now. Next presidential elections are in May and he can’t run again. He doesn’t have the time or mandate to start major reforms now.
France has the biggest debt in EU. They have the 3rd highest debt-to-GDP after Italy and Greece. They have worse debt-to-GDP ratio than Spain now.
While people are destroying private and public property causing billions in damages there is simply no one who will listen to them. There’s no money in the budget to simply increase funding for education or lower gasoline prices, the debt is already overwhelming them. No one knows who will win the next elections so the current government has little interest in starting major reforms now. All they can do is to send police to the streets and try to control the situation (which they are failing to do, clearly).
The protests have very little chance to achieve anything. Macron will be out in May so how can he even promise anything to the protesters? The protests are mostly pointless. They will most likely just polarize the vote before elections pushing people to support the extremes.
I hope you can well imagine how Le Pen, Trump and Putin are opening champagne bottles about these riots. These rioters couldn’t shoot better in their own knees and causing a critical situation for the entire EU and for themselves - it increases economical instability, because potential investors will step back, rendering any solution more difficult, and it increases the chance that Le Pen will win the next election - a loss for Ukraine, a loss of freedom, an increase of imbalance and instability for the entire EU.
Sorry, but everybody supporting these riots - protests are something different - is IMHO an enemy of the EU, a supporter of the three above mentioned people and their agenda.
The money is there, it just goes into the few already deepest pockets in the world.
I knew someone will say this…
The money is there but you can’t divert it without changing the tax system and passing a new budget. Those are the major reforms I mentioned that lame duck president will not do. Without them they would just be adding to their massive debt.
They’ve just passed an amendment allowing tax-free gifts of up to €100,000 to one’s children. It’s a new handout for the rich, paid for by taxpayers, voted just the day before these protests.
It’s funny how they never have a problem pushing things forward in one direction. Maybe we should stop coming up with excuses for why they can’t do it in the other.
Yes, politicians often use lame duck period to pass unpopular laws, they don’t have to worry about winning elections anymore. It’s completely different than changing the entire system. They have 0 interest in doing it and other parties have 0 interest in helping them do it.
They don’t have to change the entire system, just close loopholes they themselves opened, the same way they opened that one. They have no excuse, and we don’t have to provide one for them.
I agree that there is a larger problem at play here.
changing the tax system
It seems to me that the comment you’re replying to said that.
both of those changes have a big political cost. but if Macron can’t run for presidency anymore, he is in the best position to make those decisions, so that the next party doesn’t have to bear the political costs
That’s some fantasy politics you’re playing there. First, big reforms like that are not done in a matter of months, specially in the middle of an election campaign. Second, Macron is not going to make reforms the left wants, why would he? He could look for some compromise but why would other parties help him do any reforms now if they are so close from taking over and doing the reforms they actually want to see? Third, Macron’s party has zero interest in helping the next government with anything. Macron created the system he wanted to have, why would he help his rivals dismantle it now?
Funnily enough, France is also the country that spends the most money in the world in social services. So what do the rioters want, end to that?
Keep going guys, lead the way and hopefully the rest of the world follows.
That went so great the last time.
(For people unaware of the history of the French Revolution: it didn’t go so great)
It actually improved a lot of things on the long term. We don’t have to rent land to a lord for example like British do today. But I don’t mind you to love being slave to lords and rich people. Freedom and equality is a tough road, not for everyone.
Surely if you’re renting land to a Lord, or any other person, that would be a welcome income stream?
Sure, that might be true. A bit like free market capitalism improves a lot of things in the long term, even though it might locally sometimes cause some pain.
Just like free market capitalism improves a lot of things in the long term
its the opposite, only short term. Definitely not the long term.
Uhm, what? Capitalism is pretty good at inducing rapid growth but is inherently unsustainable. Unlimited growth is a fairytale
I don’t know, everyone looks like they are having a pretty great time, living in the moment and not a cell phone in sight
Yeah, initially it sure went pretty great for the side that was on the winning side of the revolution. Agree on you there.
What happened soon afterwards, though?
What did happen?
What always tends to happen after a country’s leadership has been decapitated by its people. The wrong people filled the power vacuum.
Within a few years, they were at war with almost every other country in Europe. Jacobins with their leader Robespierre ran a reign of terror a year until he himself was guillotined. Civil war in the Vendee (about 150 000 - 200 000 dead). All kinds of crushing of revolts in several large cities.
Generally speaking: horrible chaos everywhere, marking the first instance of leftist terrorism after a successful revolution. This would happen several times in other countries that went the same route. Of course, both leftism and the modern concept of terrorism were invented around that place and time.
Cherry on top: Napoleon, one of Europe’s worst dictators of the 1800s century rose to power as a direct consequence of the revolution and how badly its aftermath was handled.
You were almost credible until you said “leftism and the modern concept of terrorism were invented by the French revolutionaries” lmao
Since I did not say that, are you declaring in a needlessly complicated way that I’m credible?
Oh well, I suppose we should all get on our knees for the billionaires then.
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You do you.
I mean, yeah, the other monarchies probably didn’t take too kindly to their own being killed off, but it brought in the First French Republic, that’s a pretty good thing. I believe Marat was stabbed in his bath and Robespierre was shot ending the Reign of Terror and bringing in the White Terror, so it had it’s rocky moments.
This should be a tripping through time post!
Protesting is fine. Destroying beautiful places like this is a serious loss
You have no idea what protest is about then. When you have nothing and capital is entirely owned by someone else, you can burn your city and lose nothing. Peaceful protests are by definition useless and only Americans think it works.
Peaceful protests are by definition useless and only Americans think it works.
Hell no? Nonviolence—properly planned, properly utilized nonviolence in the appropriate conditions—does work. The classic (good) examples here are Gandhi and MLK, but they’re are far from the only ones. What doesn’t work is American style cargo cult “protests” that reproduce the appearance of protest without having an actual theory of victory. This article does a great job explaining this.
2 examples that only worked thanks to being the alternative to other violent movements. Gandhi in particular also got a lot of people killed in his “peaceful” crusade, and did nothing about it.
I mean diversity of tactics is important; in practice many successful movements are going to have violent and peaceful wings (or one wing that does both, e.g. the US labor movement), both of which meaningfully contribute to the end result. That doesn’t mean the peaceful wing is useless or toothless; peaceful movements have options for escalation up to and including a general strike.
Go burn the mansions of the billionaires then, sink their yachts. Why burn down your own history? It’s like shooting yourself in the foot because you are mad. How the hell does that change anything?
In our defense, Americans are only TAUGHT that peaceful protest is the only viable way.
Our schools don’t teach about the Battle of Blair Mountain, or Haymarket Square, or the Deacons for Defense, etc. etc. etc.
Do not fuck with your citizens then
Still don’ doesn’t excuse it
I mean ultimately destroying useful government property doesn’t punish the government, because it’s going to be rebuilt/replaced out of taxpayer money.
You really don’t understand the French.
If they raise taxes because of this, the next one will burn as well.
Yup. They aren’t the smartest.
The French definitely have guts, but you’re overselling it. They keep protesting yet the retirement age keeps going up, for instance.
Burn down a office tower or something then, not a beautiful historic building.
This is the main point. The French do not fuck around.
A group of masked protesters who had torched a police car outside the town hall were seen breaking windows and entering the building to set a fire, according to witnesses.
I can hear it now, “The extreme left hate free speech and like to burn things.”
No false flags needed here. wp:Reichstag fire.
It doesn’t even need to be false flag. All it takes are a few pumped up idiots who use the protest as a pretext for getting thrills and dopamine kicks out of chaos and destruction.
My kid’s school burned down during a protest in a suburb (not in France). The perpetrators were youth from more affluent parts of the city, kicked up on drugs they used the protests and travelled all across the city to try to set fire to preschools, schools and residences.
Yep.
and I forgot to mention the possibility that they might have been/might be agent provocateurs, however unwitting they might be in their vandalism and arson.
Jesus fuck you guys are insane.
This seems like a bit of a dramatic response to the comment, unless I’m misreading your meaning here.
Literal terrorists. But people here on Lemmy still see those looters and rioters as heroes. Absolutely beyond me. They destroy public and private properties of normal people and yet people here on Lemmy celebrate those deeds. Absolutely revolting. Wonder whether y’all still would be cheering if it were ur store or car or whatever that got destroyed by those “protestors”. No mercy against those lawless rioters.
You would have called for the execution of the people that got the US weekends and the 8 hour work day, wouldn’t you?
Wtf no?? I’m not condemning the peaceful protestors, I am only condemning those who riot and loot; those people have no interest whatsoever in the actual cause. They use those protests solely as a pretence for looting.
Jesus Christ, the extrapolation y’all guys on Lemmy do is really its very own form of insanity. Y’all really can only think in black and whites, as in two polar opposites where no middleground exists.
The protests to get the American workers their protections were anything but peaceful. You should crack a history book once in a while.
You literally divided the protestors into the peaceful ones and rioters, who you call literal terrorists, and have the gall to accuse other people about black and white world views? Surely there are a lot of groups between then in a movement this big? Your worker rights don’t come from the people who just sat around peacefully until the people in power got so bored they gave them their rights, most of modern conveniences arrived here with a body count.
Perhaps a bit of nuance would do you good as well?
Wtf no?? I’m not condemning the peaceful protestors, I am only condemning those who riot and loot;
were US weekends and 8 hour work days achieved by peaceful protestors?
Were US weekends and 8 hour work days achieved by arbitrarily destroying public and private property and lootings like the world is about go down?
Seriously the lack of condemnation of the haphazard violence and destruction here on Lemmy is utterly appalling.
Several shops in the centre of Limoges were also looted.
Just a group of thugs at this point.
yeah cry acab now, what a bunch of fuckheads
ACAB!
Wow 😟
