But the Democrats said they had to support genocide for the voters.
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Democrats can only win the election if they support the Israeli ethnic cleansing of Gaza and the West Bank
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The only reason Democrats lost the election was because far-left pro-Hamas single-issue voters handed it to Donald Trump by failing to vote for Kamala Harris
Listen, Donald Trump is the worst. The absolute worst. Therefore, Democrats should be allowed to endorse a genocide to win an election. Anyone who disagrees is basically Russian.
The only reason Democrats lost the election was because far-left pro-Hamas single-issue voters handed it to Donald Trump by failing to vote for Kamala Harris
And you definitely should not mention the part where Holocaust Harris still would’ve lost even if she received every single third-party vote, even including Libertarians who usually lean right. Blue MAGA is as hostile towards that basic fact as Red MAGA is towards… most basic facts.
EDIT: See? Downvotes for basic, verifiable math lol
Holocaust Harris still would’ve lost even if she received every single third-party vote
Obviously it wasn’t just the third party voters who betrayed her, but all the non-voters as well.
She ran the perfect campaign, but was stabbed in the back!
Maybe instead of promising “the most lethal fighting force in the world”, she should’ve promised it “in the galaxy”. Thinking big never hurts when it comes to imperialism.
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The sensible liberal centrist position to take is “a bit of genocide”. So instead of sending 35 billion in military aid, you send 20. It’s called realpolitik, and it’s the adult thing to do.
no fucking shit. idiots.
Wow! You mean that thing that a shitload of people were screaming warnings about has finally been heard? And only 18 months too late to do anything about it! At this rate, they might figure out that trump is a pedophile before he dies. I sure do have a lot of hope that future elections are gonna go well and totally not be ratfucked out in the open with no pushback of any actual consequence. I’m glad that there will be a stern letter threatening to file a lawsuit (that will never happen) due to armed CBP and ICE at the polls terrorizing BIPOC. Inspiring stuff, papa Schumer!
My surprised Pikachu meme died a while ago. Pretend I’m posting him here.
The report: everything we were screaming into the void from 2023 till 2024.
The report is moot other than the fact they trying to bury it because anyone with two twigs to run together knows the answer, knew it before it happened, knew it while it was happening, and knows it now.
Trump was easily beatable in 2024 and Dems blew it at every turn.
You want to see the roadmap for beating Trump?
Sort c/politics by controversial and read the top five threads of comments.
It’s all there in black and white, in no uncertain terms. And the shitlibs who insisted we take the worst strategy turns possible (and advocating for them in those threads)…they mostly jumped ship (santanko and squid being notable examples).
It’s also worth nothing how many voices who go their analysis at the time basically correct at the time it would have mattered, how many of them are banned from politics as a whole. There was a clear moderation effort made to cultivate a specific type of conversation here.
If genocide isn’t a red line then there are no red lines, every lib that voted for blue no matter who should be in the Hague along with the rest of the murderers
You really saved us all with your… not voting?
Man… how many bricks to the side of y’all’s head do we have to take to get you to understand that a) an election isn’t about individual choice, and b) telling people what to do with their votes is counter productive.
If you were doing in 2023/24 what you are doing now, with that comment: You’re why fascism won.
You aren’t part of the collective that got it right. You’re being the shit lib who handed the world to the fascists.
Saying something over and over doesn’t mean its true.
That said, I hate both the DNC and the non-voters. I can do both. If free will exists, then I can blame both. (I mean I don’t believe in free will, but on an emotional level fuck both anyway, I don’t owe either of them shit.)
You hated the DNC so much you voted for them and defend their actions tooth and nail?
I voted for them for tactical purposes. Both because at the time I cared about the well being of my fellow human beings and I care about my own well being. These days I’m not so sure I care about humans or even myself. I’m still grappling with the point of it all now that we’re doomed.
I understand that tactics aren’t likely your strong suit, so let me make it clear: I do not have to love the democrats as a party to vote for them. I just have to have a basic grip on reality that it was either them or fascism. Because its first past the post we are dealing with.
Well then tactically you fucked up lol
it was either them or fascism
Who do you think helped prop up and build the foundations for fascism? That’s what your tactics resulted in.
Saying something over and over doesn’t mean its true.
Denying reality over and over again doesn’t make you right and the perspective you are espousing was the dominant narrative up until the elective. That individually voters just needed to “do better”. You want to blame voters; you need them to win elections. Explain to me how you plan on getting back the 6% of Democratic voters you lost using your approach? You blamed them for failure before the contest was even run and they didn’t show up for you. Now what? How does your analysis change their minds into showing up?
What you are doing is the same thing petroleum companies did around recycling in the 90s. By believing this is some negotiation of individual choice, you are obscuring the fact that the Democrats structurally undermined their own ability to stop fascism. Blaming the individual is why fascism won.
You want to blame voters; you need them to win elections. Explain to me how you plan on getting back the 6% of Democratic voters you lost using your approach?
I don’t need to win shit anymore. I don’t care, its obviously a fool’s errand to give a shit. The 2024 US election taught me that. All worrying about politics does is hurt me and waste my time with fools.
You blamed them for failure before the contest was even run and they didn’t show up for you. Now what? How does your analysis change their minds into showing up?
All that’s left is rot, so I’m going to pick through the garbage and hope to find some gems before we all drown in shit. My analysis is just based on brutal reality. They did not show up “for themselves” as well. Its not just me they’ve hurt. Leopards are eating faces, and not all the owners of those faces are “shitlibs” and MAGA, some of them are protestors who didn’t vote.
There is no means for me to change people’s minds on voting so you don’t need worry about me trying. I just want people to understand that the very virtue obsessed moral framework they are using to make their decision to not vote has hurt them. Its doomed them. I want them to feel bad about it because in so far that someone can deserve to feel bad about it, they definitely should.
What you are doing is the same thing petroleum companies did around recycling in the 90s. By believing this is some negotiation of individual choice, you are obscuring the fact that the Democrats structurally undermined their own ability to stop fascism. Blaming the individual is why fascism won.
No its not. In a purely rational sense, I don’t really blame anyone. Free will doesn’t actually exist.
But within the context of people I can like, dislike, or hate as the emotional creature that I am: I definitely can fucking loathe multiple groups at the same time and feel catharsis at their suffering.
I think you are still operating under the delusion that this second Trump term is something we will escape from, but the thing is, bad times don’t create good times. They create more bad times. We are in the gravity well of a metaphorical political and environmental black hole, and you are in denial.
The dems will win in 2028, and it wont matter much, other than we’ll get some sweet painkillers as we pass into oblivion. Because the GOP will win in 2032. Or society will completely collapse. Or the globe will roast all of our food and we’ll all starve. There are not much in the way of good things to look forward to.
I don’t need to win shit anymore. I don’t care,
Great. Then just keep it all to yourself then. All bottled up deep inside so you don’t hand the fascists another victory.
You really saved us with your… supporting genocide?
I voted third party
My absolute favorite downvoted comment. Will frame it for posterity
Good comment.
I guess the millions starving because USAID got cut isn’t a red line.
Or all the undocumented immigrants in the US getting rounded up into camps, some whisked away to who knows where, also isn’t a red line.
Or women losing their bodily autonomy on the first go around, due to SCOTUS being cemented as conservative for the rest of our lives.
Or trans people fearing for their lives and being unable to flee the US because their passport will get scrutinized.
Or virtually all environmental regulations in the US getting cut so now we contribute more intensely to our cooking planet.
All of this is not only not a redline, its preferable. Because the shitlibs must be punished, right?
I don’t think I will ever understand you. I don’t even know if you’re real. What are you trying to accomplish?
The sole purpose of USAID was for regime change and the illusion of aid needed caused by US actions
Dems had 50 years and multiple opportunities to protect women’s rights and did nothing but raise money off that fear.
The first 2 months of Bidens war in Gaza released the equivalent of 275k tons of burning coal, not so concerned about the environmental pact of that.
Edit sp
I’m sure now that USAID is shut down the regime change will stop. The millions of starving people clearly were a necessary sacrifice.
When it’s US actions that were causing them to starve, yes
They were a necessary sacrifice? Wait you are going to need to elaborate.
They wouldn’t be starving if the US stayed out of their politics. The US creates the circumstances to destabilize their economies, overthrow their governments then come in with USAID to assist as if they didn’t cause the problem.
Oh you edited in some more.
Dems had 50 years and multiple opportunities to protect women’s rights and did nothing but raise money off that fear.
Yeah I hate the dems too.
The first 2 months of Bidens was in Gaza released the equivalent of 275k tons of burning coal, not so concerned about the environmental pact of that.
I promise you that the environmental impact of Gaza being turned into glass is dwarfed by the invasion of Ukraine and like, everything else going on globally. You live in a stupid bubble where everything bad that exists is because of zionism and Israel and their genocide of Palestinians. If cared enough I’d bet money.
And every non-voter who’s “high road” they dichtomously make fun of Obama for has allowed more genocide is what, better? The choices were some genocide or more genocide, avoiding the choice is just a choice for more genocide. Trolley on way to kill 5 people do you pull the lever to kill 1 or don’t pull the lever and let it kill 5. Unsurprising that people will blame you for not pulling the lever and you’re upset that people did try and pull the lever.
You are litterally doing the thing that handed the country to fascists: you are a fascist enabler.
If you continue to blame voters instead of those in power, you are supporting fascism, and we should ALL collectively recognize you as a fascist.
Yeah, fuck me for thinking vote for the lesser evil and work towards better rather than let the greater evil win and then??? How dare I desire not to worry about gestapo throwing me in a hole for my skin color while I fight for better. Instead of fighting for better im just fighting to survive. Fucks sake.
Yeah, fuck me for thinking vote for the lesser evil and work towards better
Yeah. Fuck you for that. Thinking like that blew the fucking election and handed the country to fascists. Thats what we’re saying. Accepting or advocating for lesser evil loses elections time and again. If you were advocating for that approach in 2023/4, the fascism is on you.
Its the entire point we’ve been making since 2023.
Reminder that there are more then two choices on every ballot in every county. If you don’t bother using them because you really think “your team” should win, then you don’t really have any business participating in democracy.
Sure, that sounds good to say in theory, but I’m sure you’re aware that a First Past the Post voting system kinda makes a third party effectively a wasted vote. Normally I’d support a third party absolutely, but in the last election, a vote that wasn’t for Dems was, unfortunately, a vote for Trump and I’m having a hard time believing you’re actually so dense as to not understand that
You will never get to vote for change if you always accept what you are given. Every single election since I started paying attention to politics has been “the most important election in my lifetime.” So with your thinking there is never a time to vote for your values, only the values Capitalists have enshrined in both candidates by choosing which candidates of both parties are “electable.”
Lesser evil never leads towards better, it leads to worse. A small acceptable amount of evil allows for a larger evil the next time. 50+ years if that shit and here we are
Lesser evil never leads towards better, it leads to worse.
Even more so with a greater evil.
Nobody is saying “settle for the lesser evil”. They are saying it’s easier to fight for progress against the lesser evil than the greater evil.
Small, acceptable amounts of evil allows for a larger amount of evil the next time. If you compound that over decades, you have our current situation. You can’t vote your way out of our current situation.
Yes but they should probably blame the guy that tied people to the track in the first place. I think most see it as scapegoating. Politicians dictate their own policies and you have to be very vocal about the ones that suck to be heard over the corporate money. Blaming voters gets you zilch in terms of change.
I’m going to blame the guy who tied six people to the tracks as well as the guy that didn’t pull the lever. I’m going to blame the guy who tied them to the tracks a lot more, but I can blame both.
I disagree. I don’t think we should support genocide at all, full stop, period. But I guess some folks are okay with a little genocide, as a treat
You mean some folks are okay with more genocide, as long as they pretend not doing the bare minimum to reduce the account of genocide absolves them of responsibility.
Their tactic of “We not as bad as X” doesn’t work anymore. The compromising position is to compromise yourself. Never again.
All the crummy neo-lib takes makes me regret having voted for it to begin with. I compromised myself for the sake of damage control and I’m furious about it. I consider a neo-liberal as no better than MAGAt because when the mask comes off, they aren’t.
We’ve seen the mask of humanity fall off, and we’re asked not to believe what we’ve seen with our own eyes. It’s absolutely disgusting. I’ve seen liberals call not wanting to support an actual genocide a purity test. I’ve seen them refer to billions in military aid for a genocide “not perfect” (the implication being “good enough for me”).
Now, finally, American fascism is turning inward. They finally feel even just 1% of the violence they’ve been meting out on the rest of the world for decades, under every single president since Eisenhower. They deserve all of it, and more.
Yeah, I often think about that post that goes something like, “Donald Trump has done more damage to the American Empire and its propaganda machine than the last few decades of leftist organizing.”
I don’t like it. But I’m not sure it’s wrong either lmao
Theuniparty requires unconditional support for Israel
Republicans support Israel. Democrats support Israel. Republicans are worse. Therefore, you must support Israel or the Republicans win.
No, shut up. We will not cancel your student debt. We will not expand Medicare or Medicaid ever again. In fact, we’re rolling back all those COVID extensions Trump signed, because we need to focus on the national debt. Progressive policies are TOO EXPENSIVE. And now I’m sending Israel another $10B to fight ISIS or Hamas or whatever, idk anymore.
If you keep complaining, I’m going to assume you’re one of those Bernie Sanders Chinese Communist bot accounts.
The dissent was widely known and broadcast — they chose their line. And it will cost us decades if not generations.
yep, I think the centrists think of it as a single lost election that they can just have a do over on next cycle. Many of the dem base voters they imagine will come back are third party for life now. People take supporting genocide pretty personally. Many on here like finitebanjo and givesomefucks want to pretend the DNC dems never supported genocide. But they did, and still do. Theres no take backsies or do overs on that.
I like to point out that Democrats had anti-LGBT+ beliefs, feelings, and I’m certain passed legislation for it then started backing off when it became hot button relevant. Which is good, but they are not the innocent poster boys/girls they like to make themselves out to be.
So we’re just saying things now huh
Don’t pretend or white wash it, even Democrats were anti-LGBT+.
They still are, we all saw how Harris threw trans under the bus
Ya I’m stil on the if your trans thats fine doesn’t bother anyone.
But the keep your son off my natural daughter’s team. Is an opinion a lot of people have and to pretend that’s not turning away voters is huge. And trying to force it will continue to equal losses
Downvote me all you want, I know I am right, you deep down know I’m right. And the majority of Americans are right
You can take your “both sides equally bad” and shove it you worthless scumbag.
Nope, because they’re the same side.
…Useless centrists whining about the outcomes of their own bad ideas as they steer the party off cliff after cliff. You know who saw Harris’s loss coming in the last election Halfsaleman? Everyone. Everyone but centrists like yourself as you cheerfully pulled the voting lever to support what you claim without proof was support for a “lesser, kinder, gentler” genocide. We’re all here in trumpland because of people like yourself.
You are delusional or a liar and your painting me as a centrist is cope or hollow propaganda. Eat shit.
Provide evidence of statement. Watch them try to disagree with their very eyes. Orwellian as hell with the neo-libs in this post.
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The comment you were responding to.
I like to point out that Democrats had anti-LGBT+ beliefs, feelings
The video proves objectively that was true. Same with genocide today. The party doesn’t get to skate by ignoring genocide anymore. They must change or they will continue to lose. If you continue to vote for their continued support of genocide, it means you support genocide.
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Ya, no shit.
Why would anyone waste their time studying something that’s blatantly obvious?
Can someone conduct a study to confirm that hot is hot and cold is cold?
Next up: Dems working on secret report found Epstein and Trump were friends!
Not just friends! Best friends! Besties!
Yup, all those folks withheld their votes, and now Gaza is saved!
What state was going to turn if all green party voters voted Harris?
Because you can’t name one, I’ll proceed to the next point: it’s the job of the party to court votes. That’s it. They don’t have another job. And when they fail in doing that, they’ve failed in their job.
A party blaming voters is like a sailor blaming the sea. The sea just is what it is. There is nothing any sailor or captain, or person looking from land can do to change the manner of the sea.
The voters are the way they are. You can hate the way that they are, you can wish they were different than how they are, but that doesn’t not change them. We told you this in 2023. You ignored us and told us that “the voters just needed to suck it up and vote this way”. But the voters didn’t, because that’s not how voters work. And by resisting calls for the party to change, you are doing the work of setting us up for further failure.
If you are blaming voters, an amorphous blob over which neither you, nor I, nor anyone else has control of: you are a saboteur of the effort to stop fascism.
It is politically illiterate to blame voters. When the sailors in board tell the captain “don’t go that way, there are rocks”, and the captain says "well the rocks better move, whose fault is it that the rocks didn’t move?
Libs would rather try to get millions of ordinary people to give up their most fundamental moral principles than ask one powerful person to exhibit basic human decency. They essentially treat politicians like gods, to be followed unconditionally. No form of democracy could ever work with such a submissive populace.
That’s if you take what they say at face value, anyway. The reality is a lot of them don’t want to pressure politicians about things like the genocide of foreigners because they don’t genuinely care. They just have to pretend to for rhetorical reasons to appease leftists. If a politician disagrees with them on something they actually care about, they may suddenly find their misplaced spines. Hard to say how many are like that, as opposed to the ones who are genuinely spineless.
You can’t expect the people who blindly vote for their favorite color to actually understand what an election is, let alone want to win an election.
They don’t care what happens in the oval office as long as it’s blue. Like how Biden didn’t actually stop the cages on the border, they just ignored it until Trump was in office. And then they pretend to care again as they say all Latinos are guilty of what the DNC chose to ignore.
Let’s not overlook Biden as a senator voting for increased police funding as well as making federal student loan debt harder to discharge while also being more predatory. Politically he’s still highly conservative just not AS conservative. At this point any point of conservatism is beyond reprehensible to me.
I won’t overlook it, neither did the people in the 2020 primaries before Biden was forced into the front runner, with the woman who called him out on his racist policies impacting her as a child as the VP pick.
The options were Gaza destroyed but worst or Gaza destroyed but at least it was a Democrat instead. Not lesser evils when it’s still reprehensibly evil.
It wasn’t gonna get saved by the people that claimed there was no genocide and actively funding it
100% this. It’s all so tiresome to listen to those types, too. They really do think they are so very self-righteous and better than the “neoliberal shills”, etc. 🙄
If Harris wanted to win the election, they needed to listen to us and capitulate. It’s not more complicated than that. We gave the roadmap, we were informed, and the post mortems show us to have been right the entire time.
Harris ran a losing campaign. That’s an objective fact. We have a path to winning the election. Internet wide, apologists for Democrats chose to ban us, silence us, and wag their finger. Butt they didn’t have right of it. Their calculations were wrong.
We were litterally begging Harris to just fucking lie to us about her position on Gaza. Just fucking signal that she’d do something, anything to push back on Israel. She couldn’t even muster the most mediocre of efforts.
Then they lost the election.
And here’s the issue, and I’ve outlined this ad nauseum, and I’ll continue to do so until everyone understands: you don’t control the electorate.
You don’t have a choice in what people think or how they behave. And there are no functional mechanisms to move populations of people to whatever you think they “should” believe or how you think they should act. Moving populations is a decadal, generational project.
There is one path to winning elections: understand the electorate, and then move candidates into adopting those positions. You can’t shame, badger, or otherwise abuse voters into voting how you want them to. It doesn’t work. It doesn’t if you don’t like it. Trying to do so is counterproductive.
Sorry, you didn’t instantly say you’d vote for no matter who they appoint without the consent of the voters, so you’re going to banned and ignored now.
Vote Blue No Matter Who! Even if they actively harm their own campaign, pledge to have a stronger border than Trump, actively enable genocide, and fail to keep promises that got voters engaged.
Bit weird how Darwin keeps ignoring you every time you prove him wrong. Even when pinged, he doesn’t reply to you. I’m sure there’s nothing weird about that.
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world You said you never actually got any response from leftists. Here’s one. Why didn’t you answer it?
^ Well, I’m not sure if this is an actual question in good faith given this is coming from a banned account.
But, to answer it - I’m not sure if I said I never get response from leftists. Hell, I consider myself and many I affiliate with a leftist (despite all the arguments in bad faith that tend to kick off by calling everyone with even a slight disagreement a “shitlib” or a “neoliberal shill” and so on). If I said that, I didn’t mean it - what I meant is that I see less of them (online) since the election.
I have enough of the type of unapologetic unhelpful bad-faith types of “leftists” in my personal life even if all the online trolls/bots really did disappear immediately after the election.
I’ve had the conversation enough times and it’s nearly always done in bad faith and delusion. I’ve had it so many times that I could practically write out their responses anyway, so I don’t really see it going anywhere. In any case, I’m sure I’ll have it IRL soon enough as I have enough associates of the tankie archetype. It’s weird how much of the Murc’s Law media and reactionary centrist tropes they have adopted, that’s for sure…if I didn’t experience this kind of thing IRL, I’m not sure I’d even be convinced that all of these online characters were not just a form of online agent provocateur. I believe that at least some of the online people legitimately hold their views.
Sorry you don’t want to win, if you wish to keep Republicans elected, you can just swap party affiliation. You clearly don’t care about what Democrats want, only their corporate donors from the military-industrial complex.
Vote blue no matter who, liberal!
Gaza is saved! For Trumps new golf resort!
Who could have predicted supporting mass murder would look bad?
Huh. Maybe next time we tell them “supporting mass murder is bad even if the other side does it too” they’ll listen.
They won’t. They would rather lose and be controlled opposition. But one can hope for change.
The only thing to blame for her defeat is the American republican voters who are too fucking stupid and selfish to not be complete assholes. There is always things one could have done better, not having done perfect is just reality.
There’s not being perfect and there’s supporting a genocide. She deserves the blame
So just like Trump? Harris isn’t the one planning on profiting from real estate development in the gaza ffs. That’s who Republicans voted for.
Doesn’t really matter what happens after if the original goal is the mass murder and elimination of a culture. If I was Palestinian I would’ve sat out the election. Its easy to complain when no one you actually know was being bombed in an open air prison.
Americans are complaining about ICE arresting children and shooting citizens but thats been happening in Palestine for decades.
One of the two options will get chosen. Abstaining only increases the chance the worse of the options for you is more likely. Being a single issue voter and not voting if that single issue isn’t what you want is irresponsible to yourself. Whoever wins will affect your life in a myriad of ways beyond that single issue and throwing away your influence over that, as small as it may be, is simply foolish. If you aren’t also participating in the systems that choose the candidates, nevermind finding and supporting politicians who do reflect your values, you’re doing a disservice to yourself.
There is no worse option than a genocide. And last I checked there was no primary last election. This was about the presidential election.
You folks who try to shame Arabs/Muslims for sitting out the last election get on my nerves. Refusing the false choice of youre ppls extermination and likening it to single issue voting spits on their struggle. Its the equivalent of telling a black person in 1968 that not voting Nixon because hes a massive racist makes them foolish single issue voters.
The issue and the demographic of the voter are immaterial. If you refuse to vote based on one issue then you give up your influence over all the other issues as well. You don’t have to like it or think it’s just, or fair, or right. It’s about whether you will use the political power you do have to influence the things that will affect you or not.
Being Arab or Muslim or black or white or Christian or athiest or young or old, or anything else, doesn’t matter in regard to whether you use the power you have or not.
Your diseased “lesser evil” dogma is how we got to the point where supporting the modern-day holocaust is framed as “not having done perfect”.
Choosing the lesser of two evils is life. Welcome to it. You don’t always get to choose your options and mitigating the worst is a responsibility. Trump was easily the worst, and also supports the genocide. But Republicans couldn’t seem to figure that out. Apparently just like you.
Weird, I didn’t choose either evil but I’m still alive.
Yes, I meant you risked death…
You said “choosing the lesser of two evils is life”. And yet I lived without doing so. Almost like it’s not an inevitable aspect of life. Almost like you cling to that narrative as a cognitive tool, something to contextualize your actions as inevitable and unavoidable in order to avoid the guilt you’re rightfully due for endorsing genocidaires to run the most powerful military our species has ever known.
Anyway, leftists are apparently such a powerful segment of the electorate that you blame us for Democrats losing. You know what that’s called in politics? Leverage. We can make you lose, according to your own narrative. Guess you better start listening to our demands unless you want to keep losing. We’re in charge, after all. You just said so.
“What do you mean by life, then?” Is what you could have asked but instead you wrote two paragraphs arguing against the strawman you created for yourself to play with. I won’t get in the way, keep playing with yourself.
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“No, it is the children who are wrong”
Children are stupid and ignorant, so yes, often wrong.
