Biden should’ve dropped out sooner. The DNC should’ve had an election. Absolute refusal of any responsibility will only ensure nothing changes.
The Democratic Party is not coming to save us.
No one is coming to save us.
We can be saved only by doing the work to take care of each other, to protect each other, and to relate to each other as members of community.
In before Whataboutism comments stating things Harris would have done equally or worse to excuse not preventing Trump during the election.
But let’s be clear: if you didn’t prevent Trump during the election you are accountable for what is happening now.
Harris would have prevented Trump if she actually ran a campaign in line with her voters values.
I choose to blame the ones that are actually in charge of the party. Blaming nameless voters is scapegoating. The party needs to change, we need to demand it instead of giving them an easy excuse.
It was literally Hitler or not Hitler. That should’ve been the only campaign they needed to run. We all saw what happened during his first term and we all knew what he was planning for his second.
That should’ve been all the information needed and anyone who ignored that information is directly to blame for all of this.
Yup, and they literally still fucked it up lol
If by they you mean voters, then yes 💯
Congratulations, the Dems will continue to run corrupt centrist liberal candidates and your mindset is why
It should have been that, but Harris was campaigning heavily to the center and the center leaning right.
Fuck, they basically muzzled Tim Walz during the campaign. Did you notice how he was no longer allowed to call MAGA weird? I sure did.
Then there was the fact that Harris had to run on Biden’s full platform. I know that she personally disagreed with parts, the unpopular parts. She was never really allowed to say it during the campaign.
But really, I mostly blame that little shit Crooks, you either get it right, or you don’t do it at all. Trump used that survival to galvanize his base, and that’s what an election needs to be in this divided world. Don’t worry about the other side. We live in different realities and, they don’t often intersect. You have to focus completely on your own base as much as possible. They’re the one who will actually vote, if you can get them to care enough to do so.
Harris didn’t do that. And that’s why she lost.
She lost because not enough people voted for her. How people interpreted her vibe or whatever is secondary.
Not enough people voted for her, because of how people interpreted her vibe. That’s the point. You campaign to your base, or not at all.
Never try to reach across the aisle, it doesn’t work and drives away the base.
Look at the progressive candidates that have recently won by landslides. They campaigned to the base.
You mean the mayors of solid-blue large cities?
Yeah that was exciting but that’s not going to sell in Boise.
Progressives are consistently more popular in red states than centrist Democrats. I’m living in a deep red state in a rural area and have all my life. I talk to mouth-foaming reactionaries on a regular basis. The difference in our conversations about people like Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, and Kamala Harris versus people like Bernie Sanders, Zohran Mamdani, and AOC is extremely stark. They never have anything good to say about the former, but always preface their disapproval of the latter with “I agree with some of the stuff they say about [insert progressive policy proposal here], but I don’t think it’s realistic / I don’t agree on their ‘woke’ stuff.”
The centrist strategy of abandoning one’s own values to reach across the aisle to them comes across to conservatives as dishonest and shady (and they’re not wrong). They begrudgingly respect the progressive left for being uncompromising in their worldview, even if they disagree with it, and once you have someone’s respect they are more likely to meaningfully engage with your arguments. That’s how you change minds, and I’ve watched it happen on multiple occasions.
“She lost because she lost.” Why do you think this is helpful in any way?
It’s not scapegoating to state the simple fact that when people make a choice, they are responsible for it. Like the millions who voted for Trump, Stein, or stayed the fuck home. You can blame shitty campaigns too but I’m sick and tired of hearing how the voters are fucking blameless. Fuck that. Trump wouldn’t have ever even been on the ballot if our populace wasn’t dumber than a fucking brick. I am going to blame these dipshits and evil fucks for their actions and I absolutely should blame them.
It’s not scapegoating to state the simple fact that when people make a choice, they are responsible for it.
Like letting off your war criminals and putting them on pedestals? Seems like an snowball effect to allow your presidents to do anything they please?
Seems like you’re more responsible than you think for the state of things.
Try to make your presidents liable for their actions next time so you don’t have to whine about it on the internet when you don’t get your way?
We’re sick and tired of it too.
WHATABOUTWHATABOUT
Sorry your are tired of It. Your help would be most appreciated. As the saying goes, lead, follow, or get out of the way.
I feel like people blaming Harris, and those blaming the voters are talking past each other, and it isn’t at all productive. Just like China and the USA can both be bad, it isn’t an either/or situation.
I understand the frustration from both sides, and I’m also angry at all the dipshits who advocated for non-voting or voting third party in the face of obvious fascism, but I’m sick of seeing this same damn slap fight in every post. We should be focusing on the future, not bickering about the past. If we’re going to build a coalition to defeat fascism—which is desperately needed—we can’t spend our energy relitigating electoral failures, and castigating the disaffected.
Yes, Harris was a flawed candidate, running a misguided campaign. Yes, the people who didn’t vote for her are responsible for our current situation. We have to move on to what we’re going to do now.
Yep which is why we need to stop hearing about Harris.
I agree, and my comment probably ought to have been directed at OP. I just see you around a lot, and while I obviously empathize with your frustration, I think this line of argument is counterproductive.
I mean it probably is, and I probably could at least approach it more like you if I’m going to engage.
Why do you punch down instead of punching up?
You are clueless. And you literally commented about 20 times after this so far. Latest of which is you lying your ass off and pretending Harris would be doing basically the same shit as trump with ice. Laughably false. Go away.
if she actually ran a campaign in line with her voters values.
Yes. She was impure. Therefore we had to cast her out.
I won’t pat someone on the back who willingly covered themselves in filth and drove everyone away.
How hard is it to just tell Israel to fuck off. They couldn’t even pretend for a few months. Not to mention everything else (billionaires, healthcare, etc). Their whole campaign was basically a shrug with a trite “well what else are you going to do, we are all you have suckers”.
Sorry they didn’t tune the entirety of their election platform to your personal view of the world.
Anyway, you got what you wanted, why are you still bitching over a year later?
I wanted anyone but Trump, that’s why I still voted for Harris. I didn’t get what I wanted because supporting genocide and the 1% was more important to her and her party then what I wanted.
It’s also telling the language you use. Being against genocide is just a personal view that can be ignored? I guess with you being pro-Israel, the entire election was a win-win situation for you.
Sure comrade, I’m all for genocide. Your dumbass mod is spot on.
FFS.
You are the one rabidly defending a few who pushed it knowing it was deeply unpopular, even while knowing Trump was to be the consequence.
They fucked you too you know, they fucked all of us for a foreign genocidal state. Although I’m not sure if it’s all that foreign to you.
So you’d rather pave the way for the beacon or purity that is… Trump?
(/s)
I mean, he is honest…
He posted with a Bible, so that is rule 1 completed.
He doesn’t make idols, he is one and is made in the image of god, so good enough. (Rule 2)
I don’t think he can remember the name of the lord so that is rule 3.
Rule 4 is every day for him I think.
Rule 5: how better to honor a POS father than being a bigger POS?
Rule 6: He hasn’t killed anybody. (Personally)
Rule 7 is a tough one
Rule 8: Technically he is not stealing. If you make the rules you can just say you didn’t break them.
Rule 9: The white house is fairly sparse on neighbors so I will give this one a pass.
Rule 10: This is also a tough one, but I will go with that his brain is so mushy at that point that it is impossible for him to covet something.
/s of course for whoever needs it.
This is some serious fuck the /s commentary. Anyone who can see the sarcasm dripping from this comment needs to do some serious self reflection.
Eh, you’re obviously not capable of nuance. Just do yourself a favor and tell yourself Kamala lost due to racism or sexism. That way at least you won’t hurt your head thinking too hard.
The flame of democracy requires vigilance. Based on comments like yours I know democracy was a doomed failed experiment. We really deserve what’s coming to us
Your attitude is exactly the one that has brought us to the rise of Mein Orangutan, of demanding no more than whatever seems slightly more favorable than the worst case possible.
Advancing conditions for the base of the population would depend on much more than simply voting in national elections for the Democratic Party. In fact, it requires looking beyond the two-party machine, by organizing local campaigns, worker unions, and direct action.
Yeah, let’s blame lack of advertisement. World would be so much better if everyone advertised better.
And the administration that didn’t put a single one of these people in jail? Even after the fascists released a document that was basically titled “We’re Gonna Do a Fascism in 2025”?
Might that administration be… a little more accountable than the voters they failed to convince?
assigning blame is one thing and i dont think it matters at this point tbh but anyone who is firmly in the both parties/candidates are the same isnt fully there mentally. They can both be bad mind you but bad and fuck-off-terrible-WWIII-ARMAGEDDON are not the same MO.
People who support genocide are there mentally?
Definitely not but not condemning hard enough and actively getting a boner while thinking about all the nice real estate that is gonna be freed up after killing and displacing everyone is still different. I would just like to identify the lesser evil, choose the lesser evil, get the lesser evil and then criticize it and fight it until we can get an even lesser evil. Do that a few times and u might eventually arrive at something worth being called good.
If Trump was doing it for real estate, what was Biden doing it for? Money? Blackmail? Just for fun?
not condemning hard enough
Fyi, they weren’t condemning them at all, not even a little. They actively enabled.
Is excusing and shrugging off genocide the lesser evil for you right now? How hard is it to say that the dems were in the wrong? They literally need to hear it and loudly.
Fyi, they weren’t condemning them at all, not even a little. They actively enabled.
This is a complete lie. If you’re not aware of it, you’re an idiot. But you’re not an idiot, are you. You know very well you’re telling a gross lie to advance your narrative.
They funded it and sent weapons while it was happening. They never once condemned it.
For anyone wondering, Optional already has had many comment removed for genocide denial. He is actively on the side of Israel.
Edit: They did condemn it, I guess it was hard to hear over all the weapon packages they were sending at the same time, and all the “Israel has a right to defend itself”. Good thing optional had a list of links ready.
More lies eh. Well, enjoy then.
Just some food for thought: US President Joe Biden has condemned Israel’s killing of seven humanitarian aid workers in Gaza. Saying he was “outraged and heartbroken”, he accused Israel of not doing enough to protect aid …
Biden condemns ‘totally unacceptable’ death of American
Biden’s antisemitism czar condemns Israel, not antisemites
Biden Embraces Then Condemns Israel
Biden scolds Israel over settlement plan
Biden’s Historic Executive Order Imposes Israeli Sanctions
Biden criticises ‘most extreme’ ministers in Israeli government
They never once condemned it.
Bullshit. Again.
Good thing optional had a list of links ready.
Optional did a 5 second web search. Because optional’s so goddamned wily.
But let’s be clear: if you didn’t prevent Trump during the election you are accountable for what is happening now.
Voting for Kamala would just delay the fascism by another 4 years of regular neoliberal decay and less overt imperialist genocide. I mean, I’d have voted for her too if I was in the US, but blaming people who didn’t vote hard enough is counterproductive.
You can’t shame people into choosing the lesser evil neoliberalism again. And even if you did (kinda like what happened in 2020), it will just enable the dems to become even worse, because it shows them that they can win by pointing at trump, while increasingly doing the same shit he’s doing (because it’s ultimately beneficial for their donors).
You need to build something which is not owned by the billionaires, which actually inspires people by promising and building real solutions, showing real improvements in their quality of life, and then they will show up.
If you aren’t part of PSL or some other socialist/communist/anarchist org trying to dismantle the oligarchy, you are not part of the solution. This is not to say you are to blame, the blame lies squarely on the ruling class deciding that fascism is worth it because it will increase the rate of profit, everything else be damned.
But we’re so pure and true and intelligent, it is absolutely our mandate to prevent progress in America by disrupting voting for Democrats or any progressive candidate!
Just because that always and inevitably leads us to the kind of gunfire turdcircus we’ve got again is not our fault at all! They caused it themselves by being insufficiently pure and true!
Bourgeoise!!! Stalin did nothing wrong!
Stop punching down.
If Harris had won (and I’m not convinced she didn’t) the RepubliKKKans would have continued to successfully bang their same old tired drum to the beats of their biggest hits - racism, xenophobia, homophobia, trans phobia, misogyny, fear in general, scary woke nonsense, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, and the carrot on a stick forever promising to make things better for the middle class while actually trying to eliminate them. It’s painful af to live through but they have to self-destruct. And it’s happening. Now.
Yeah nobody wanted her but under her it at least world have been more.of the same boring bullshit, not this end times bullshit
Sure she would have been better. But still a blue maga. Did I vote for her? Yes.
But I wanted Bernie.
Same.
Hell is debating with neoliberal losers forever about what could have been.
I’m glad your hell is just people pointing out that this entire administation owes their entire ability to sic paramilitary warmongering fascists on the populace to your apathy and inability to unravel the simplest logical quandaries.
Meanwhile, people are being rounded up by the modern SS and citizens are being executed in the street. Why don’t you just delete your comment, and then stay home, and do nothing, just like the last election.
Who was in charge for the decades of rising wealth inequality and corporate power that fascism was a reaction to?
Who keeps failing to show up at primaries and vote in a more progressive candidate, and then bitches about how the candidate selected doesn’t represent them and then lets literally-hitler-2.0 have a second fucking term?
Get the fuck out of here with these bottom of the barrel useless fucking questions. Did you vote to stop trump, or did you stand-by on a “principle” that was not up for consideration during the election?
Fucking. Morons.
I voted to stop Trump at every opportunity and voted for progressives up and down the ballot for years. I spent the last few years pissed at so many easy to avoid Democrat blunders; pissed because I knew they would be responsible for losing the liberal democracy they lied about caring for. They deserved to lose their races, but none of us plebs deserve what that has brought upon both us and the world.
What pisses me off most about people like you is you don’t try for any long term solutions. You double down on the short term goal of voting for weak candidates with unpopular approaches because you believe that is all you can do. You complain about nonvoters without ever questioning if maybe Democratic voters also dropped the ball in not demanding long term systemic stability.
I voted to stop Trump at every opportunity and voted for progressives up and down the ballot for years.
Cool. I’m not pissed at you. Go about your day in peace.
What pisses me off most about people like you is you don’t try for any long term solutions.
You don’t know fucking shit about me.
I know you blame non voters more than Democrats, which is all I needed to know. Even if you don’t think you do, where you send your ire tells the story.
I know that when given the choice between Hitler and not Hitler, they threw up their hands and didn’t make a fucking choice, despite knowing full well what the consequences were.
For me, it’s living in a failed country, suffering through the daily consequences of decades of neoliberalism (aka soft imperialism), followed by fascism. It’s having to argue for basic civil rights with most of the people in my life only to have a whole other group of people argue that their actions brought fascism now to avoid worse fascism later. Wow, what a brilliant plan. Let’s hear more about how accelerating our problems is going to fix them. We could’ve had 4 more years of neoliberalism and continued to let the progressive caucus grow. But sure, death and destruction is better… Somehow…
people argue that their actions brought fascism now to avoid worse fascism later.
See, now that’s interesting. There was only one major organized movement around a policy change during the election, and it wasn’t about the timing of implementing fascism.
And it lost, as the policy did not change.
Even today the losing party is taking the Whig party strategy of trying to avoid the issue. The Whigs famously failed as a party and ultimately allowed Slavery to spiral as an issue until America Civil Warred over it.
That’s silly.
You won’t get to debate it forever. Just until the purity of your ideology leads you to a starve to death in a gulag.
People with the position you’re arguing with, usually come from some sort of privilege, and they just don’t understand what it is to have it truly bad. They usually experience some sort of advercity and prosecution, and they, as humans often do, believe that that was bad and it can’t be worse, so when they sacrifice people on altar of endless purity checks, they don’t think of it as an act of cruelty, because they believe that they sacrifice people faiths akin to bad arguments on twitter, not being shot in the face by a paramilitary member.
The same centrist Dems who willingly sacrificed the Palestinians and are now proposing that minority groups in the US be sacrificed as well. And they’re certainly not proposing abolishing or cutting ICE’s funding. Kamala and her clique perform regular electoral calculus where they figure out what minority group is worth throwing into the woodchipper to appeal to more middle aged suburban white people.
You can look for excuses all you want, but you had choices, not great, and terrifyingly bad, and you chose one that is worse, and as a consequence of that, a bunch of evil happens that could be avoided. And at this point it doesn’t matter how not great the other choice was.
You have myopia and are incapable of planning long term.
In order to plan long term you need your short term plans figured out first.
Hard to think about vacation plans, if you’re actively bleeding out, because you had a choice of relatively shitty travel agent, and a murderer with a knife, and you went with murderer because the agent tried to push pretty bad vacation to you, and now you are lying in a parking lot being stabbed, by a murderer with a knife, who explicitly wanted to murder you with a knife.
But this metaphor aside, if your long term plans involved electing Trump, those were the shiftiest plans ever regardless, long term or not.
No, I think hell is when you’re stripped of human rights because some winner on the Internet spent months helping to elect administration that helps both you and said winner. One level of that hell is being shot in the face, while said winner continues to blame everyone else for what’s ultimately his decision.
Never forget US foreign policy is uniparty.
Imperialist atrocities are excusable when they are ordered by someone claiming to be queer friendly.
Some may, but more and more are turning away from the liberals.
I know, but the context is a pretense that liberal politicians are benevolent.
Weird how there always seems to be bipartisan support on pro-corporate issues, huh?
deleted by creator
This is a widely accepted paradigm in the Global South, where the majority of humankind calls home.
My daughter dates a rich nepo baby. He loves Trump because he’s made a lot of money. Fascism is great for the rich.
Sorry about your daughter.
Yeah I would have much preferred Maduro being conveniently couped instead of captured.
Everything automatically improves when the CIA gets told to be more clandestine and the president can just deny all involvement, along with her diehard supporters who insist she would have also saved Gaza.
She promised to continue what Biden was doing, which included continuing to run ICE, so no, not “not a single one.”
Such stupid binary thinking to think ICE under her or Biden is the same as ICE under Trump.
ICE records show Biden admin plans could give Trump a head start on deportations
President Biden Signs Anti-Immigrant Spending Bill Reaching Trump-Era Highs
Biden’s Emergency Funding Proposal Seeks $14 Billion for Immigration System From Congress
Keep in mind, these democratic moves to bolster ICE were happening while the right was blatantly telegraphing their moves to immediately weaponize ICE once they took power. Project 2025 came out and promised to use ICE to plunder and abuse Americans. Biden and team then spent the next 4 years not only failing to prepare for Trump, but preemptively strengthening the mechanisms Trunp would eventually use to carry out project 2025. The democrats are controlled opposition.
Sure, maybe we wouldnt be seeing this intense of immigration enforcement if Kamala were in charge, but if she were, she’d be working behind the scenes to ensure the right had all the tools they needed when the time was right.
The democrats are controlled opposition and the American electoral system is kabuki theater.
Yeah there it is again, binary thinking. There’s no point in discussing with ml so ciao.
If they didn’t say “not a single one,” then I couldn’t break their argument with a very simple example of how that’s not true. Maybe we instead recognize that it wouldn’t be at the same pace of acceleration, but she had no interest in dismantling ICE as far as she stated. Even if she kept it at the same level as before means she’d’ve been keeping it at the level that Trump left it with.
You didn’t break their argument, you put this as stupid binary thinking. And you continue it here! So ciao.
I love how you use “binary thinking” just because someone has used it on you and you still don’t know exactly what it means
“having principles”
And she was fully on board with more military bloat, you being poor, and kids being genocided.
But Blue MAGA is okay with this stuff as long as a person doesn’t say any naughty words.
Just to clarify because the upvote ratio seems a bit too high.
Both parties are locking you in a system where your only decision is who’s boots to lick. Both are fascist and America is the biggest terrorist state maybe in the history of humanity.
Licking boots is fun when they are worn by someone claiming to be queer friendly.
My personal favorite:
Seriously, this is getting old. I have a fat collection of comments on this and c/Politics from 2+ years ago saying Biden was gonna flop long before Harris added fuel to the dumpster fire.
This thread even has the classic “regardless if you didn’t vote against Trump, its 100% you’re fault that we’re in this situation”
Yeah definitely my fault Harris’s campaign staff banned my local democrat state legislator from attending the DNC, and basically told a substantial voter base to fuck off.
Can’t wait for the next horrendous candidate they’ll run with in 2028. Probably Newsom.
LOL if you think Kamala wouldn’t have also taken an “America First” policy approach you’re deluding yourself. It just would have been less overt. It’s always been America First Fuck Everyone Else. Always.
American Oligarchy First Fuck Everyone Else. FTFY.
She would not have dismantled United for Ukraine, which has been a humanitarian travesty in the United States.
The ice thing would still be happening for sure. She made that clear during her campaign. The difference is when a dem does wrong libs stop showing up to the protests that we organize and tell us “atleast its not trump!” “stop dividing the left” etc.
Under a Democrat, ICE would stick a rainbow flag on their vests next to the POLICE patches.
Perhaps an intimate NYT piece about an ICE agent of Somali descent after the recent tragedy in Minneapolis with the closing lines:
The work we do is important, and is an integral part of our freedom and security. Eat Fresh.
Really makes you feel like you’re part of something!
The ICE thing probably wouldn’t be as bad or as blatant (no public executions on the street). But still pretty bad, and more organized.
The Venezuela thing would also be happening but with different justifications and different methods (probably a coup of some kind, orchestrated by supplying local reactionaries with weapons and suitcases of cash).
The Epstein files would still be full of ████████ except you wouldn’t be able to just copy-paste the text to get the unredacted version.
Gaza would probably be exactly the same TBH. So would Sudan.
The main differences would be in some (token or otherwise) support for renewables and academia, slightly less deregulation and tax breaks for billionaires, and of course all the institutional imperialism/soft power stuff (international orgs, NATO/Greenland, etc).
I would post electoral reform videos, but that time has passed us by. Enjoy jerking yourselves off to all the bad things you think disenfranchised people deserve, blue MAGA.
