Since I dont see it mentioned, the company is
iLife
iLife makes vacuums that map your house and can be remote controlled
Just so we are clear. You should all up your name and shame game.
For real. It’s wild how often people don’t just straight up call out bad corps.
All modern robot vacuums do this. Amazon and Zillow actually buy that data too.
o7 thank you for your service
At first I thought ”Well, duh!”, but the manufacturer having a remote kill switch when he network blocked his vacuum from sharing his home map data with them, as well as unprotected root access when connecting to the vacuum… urgh.
The engineer says he stopped the device from broadcasting data, though kept the other network traffic — like firmware updates — running like usual. The vacuum kept cleaning for a few days after, until early one morning when it refused to boot up.
After reverse engineering the vacuum, a painstaking process which included reprinting the devices’ circuit boards and testing its sensors, he found something horrifying: Android Debug Bridge, a program for installing and debugging apps on devices, was “wide open” to the world. “In seconds, I had full root access. No hacks, no exploits. Just plug and play,” Narayanan said.
All crappy IoT devices ever made. They aren’t used in bot nets all the time because hackers like the challenge of hacking them so much. Security simply isn’t a priority.
The ‘S’ on IoT stands for security!
There isn’t an s in IoT silly.
I keep seeing you everywhere and the only reason I won’t block you is because of your username brightening my day every time I see it. Curse you!
When that is the light in your day…
Is it just me, or is having ADB exposed physically not that big a deal?
Tend to agree, security is always the goal but if someone is in my house hacking my vacuum, I have bigger issues. The no-notice remote kill is the bigger issue to me.
The much bigger concern is that the pathway used to send the remote kill command could very easily be utilized by nefarious actors.
To do what, wear out one section of carpet faster than the rest of your house?
If a hacker can get into the device remotely it can be an entry point to your home network.
It is not good. But in most cases just adb doesnt grand root access. That’s just bad.
NO! It’syour device, you should have root! The fact that the manufacturer gives their product owners root is a good thing, not bad!
I will die on this fucking hill.
I agree with you. But granting root straight from adb with 0 auth is not good.
But on this threat model? Why would it not be good?
It has to physically accessed on the PCB itself from what I gather.
There are 2 “threats” from what I see:
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someone at the distribution facility pops it open and has the know how to install malware on it (very very unlikely)
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someone breaks into your home unnoticed and has the time to carefully take apart your vacuum and upload pre-prepared malware instead of just sticking an IP camera somewhere. If this actually happens, the owner has much much bigger problems and the vacuum is the least of their worries.
The homeowner is the other person that can access it and it is a big feature in that case.
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At first I thought ”Well, duh!”
There was an ARS article years ago about it…
At this point, if you buy a smart thing you have to know it’s spyware.
My home assistant isn’t spying on me. My Zwave devices are not spying.
I wish I was so naïve
Home Assistant is open source and self-hosted and doesn’t require internet to operate. The z-wave devices connect directly to the device running Home Assistant. If you want Home Assistant to be private it absolutely can be.
Wait till you find out what your wifi can do.
Was referring to this sort of bullshit. https://www.xfinity.com/hub/smart-home/wifi-motion
Port Scanning blocker was eye opening to how many websites just wanted to check in on me.
So how are they port scanning yiubif your behind a firewall.
Your browser is the trojan here. Install the plugin ‘Port Authority’. Then browse to ebay or IMDB for a demo.
aw he got in my head
Sure “can” do but isn’t.
In case anyone’s interested, there’s actually open-source self-hosted robot vacuum firmware for select models
This is great, but outside the security aspects of things. What else can this firmware do that I can’t with say, the roborock? Am I giving up functions?
I literally just installed this last weekend, so the docs are still pretty fresh in my mind. I still recommend you go read through that site to get the full picture and make your own informed decision, but here’s my tl:dr.
Valetudo, first and foremost, is intended to enable select models of vacuum robots to operate cloud-free. It’s not intended (nor is it feasible) to offer feature-parity with the manufacturers’ firmware/apps/cloud services. But in my limited experience, the only feature my robot is missing after installing valetudo is the ability to live-stream video from the onboard camera, which isn’t a big deal at all for me (and is something that the dev specifically won’t support). Everything else works flawlessly so far. It also allows you to configure just about anything the robot supports configurability for, like pathing algorithm adjustments, obstacle avoidance sensitivity adjustments, and a whole host of other things. I’m not sure if the manufacturer’s app even allows that level of configurability (because I never installed it), but I definitely feel like I have full control over my robot, and it functions flawlessly at performing its job of keeping my floors clean.
I think the biggest thing to be aware of is the rooting/installation process may require some soldering (not of the robot, just some through-hole soldering on a separate breakout board to make connecting to the robot’s debug port more foolproof), and requires comfortability in a Linux terminal. If those things aren’t in your wheelhouse, I’d say this project probably isn’t for you.
Thanks. That answers my question. I already blocked my vacuum from phoning home through my pfsense. So I am mostly there. Flashing seems like extra steps for the same results.
Yeah if your vacuum does enough for you with its Internet access restricted, then there’s probably no good reason to install valetudo. I chose to install it on mine because 1. paranoia, 2. I don’t have a good firewall solution set up yet, and 3. a lot of features on my vacuum are disabled if it can’t phone home, but valetudo re-enables those features.
Unfortunately you’ll have to do your own research, I only know this exists and have never used it because my vacuum is incompatible.
“Someone — or something — had remotely issued a kill command,” he wrote.
“I reversed the script change and rebooted the device,” he wrote. “It came back to life instantly. They hadn’t merely incorporated a remote control feature. They had used it to permanently disable my device.”
In short, he said, the company that made the device had “the power to remotely disable devices, and used it against me for blocking their data collection… Whether it was intentional punishment or automated enforcement of ‘compliance,’ the result was the same: a consumer device had turned on its owner.”
Treasonous malware.
If he blocked the data collection how did it get the kill command?
iLife A11 smart vacuum
Well, yes, that’s what those cheap “smart” devices do. Or does anyone think cheap smart would fit into that device? Rule of thumb: if a device needs internet access, it is spying on you.
!homeassistant@lemmy.world on a isolated vLAN is my goal for “Smart” devices.
Yes, but some devices simply don’t work without calling home, or have 99% of their brain in a cloud. For those cases, the vLAN does not help.
Then don’t buy those devices. If you have any excuse as to why you “can’t do that”, then there’s zero point in complaining. I’m not saying your complaints are invalid, and companies should be held accountable and criticised. But as long as people buy privacy violating products, companies will continue to violate privacy.
valetudo.cloud/
Thankfully there are groups to replace boards or flash some devices. I need to keep better bookmarks to plug them.
There’s a version of every device that doesn’t phone home. I switched to HomeAssistant a couple years ago now, and I think all of my stuff is finally local as of a few months ago, including my robot vacuum.
I remember about news of some Israeli intelligence operatives who jogged around their HQ only to be outed by their tracks on Strava.
Yeah, I read about iRobot gathering and selling info about apartments like 10 years ago. People still alarmed by this are simply ignorant.
Ignorant of what?
Ignorant of how smart vacuums work and how all connected devices are used to gather personal information that can be sold for profit.
I know very well why I installed valetudo before I even started my new vac for the first time 😁
I received a Tikom vacuum as a gift and was so sad to see I couldn’t installed Valetudo.
On the plus side, it works with no connection and so it’s only slightly less covenient to just…press the button on the vacuum itself when I take my dog for a walk. Gotta dump the tray from last time anyway
This article just screams rage-bait. Not that I am against making people aware of this kind of privacy invasion, but the authors did not bother to do any fact checking.
Firstly, they mention that the vacuum was “transmitting logs and telemetry that [the guy] had never consented to share”. If you set up an app with the robot vacuum company, I’m pretty sure you’ll get a rather long terms and services document that you just skip past, because who bothers reading that?
Secondly, the ADB part is rather weird. The person probably tried to install Valetudo on it? Otherwise, I have no clue what they tried to say with “reprinting the devices’ circuit boards”. I doubt that this guy was able to reverse engineer an entire circuit board, but was surprised when seeing that ADB is enabled? This is what makes some devices rather straight forward to install custom firmware that block all the cloud shenanigans, so I’m not sure why they’re painting this as a horrifying thing. Of course, you’re broadcasting your map data to the manufacturer so that you can use their shitty app.
The part saying that it had full root access and a kill-switch is a bit worse, but still… It doesn’t have to be like this. Shout-out to the people working on the Valetudo project. If you’re interested in getting a privacy-friendly robot vacuum, have a look at their website. It requires some know-how, but once it’s done, you know for sure you don’t need to worry about a 3rd party spying on you.
I am assuming the individual described in the article is based in the US, but nevertheless, many countries do not allow spying, fraud and criminality as long as you have a TOS that says you are allowed to do so.
This is a very provincial manner of thinking and shows how deeply tolerance of corruption and criminality dominates the American mind.
Same with the kill switch, it is essentially a fraudulent scheme, a criminal activity.
If you have a robot vacuum, and the robot vacuum makes a persistent map (as opposed to the older “dumber” models that just bounce around randomly), they all send that map back to some remote server. In fact, most of those robots won’t even enable the mapping feature unless they’re connected to the Internet (which is absolute bullshit considering most of those robots generate, process, and store that map locally, so there’s literally no reason to send it off somewhere).
So your options are to just use the robot without ever connecting it to the Internet and be happy with the reduced featureset, root the robot and install Valetudo on it, or just vacuum manually. But until manufacturers are forced to let us actually own the smart devices they sell is, under no circumstances should you ever let one touch the Internet.
Am I too dumb to understand why sending cartographer data is wrong?
His model is iLife A11 that has Lidar. He probably has an app that is used to control robot and shows cleaning progression. Vac 100% Lidar’d his entire home and sent data to create map in the app.
How in the fuck he thinks it is getting that map? If his ass so smart to find a killswitch and reverse it, how come he doesn’t grasp that map data is sent to a server though which he ca use vac app? Like in what world is it not obvious?
Not even gonna discuss about TOS he signed, or that it is general cheap brand cheap but super smart model for it’s price.
Unless some FOSS firmware and software is installed, that thing most certainly will ping back home every chance it gets.
Sidenote: My TV now is offline cause when it kept calling home (ove 60% of my pi-holes querries of all time was TV), it would freeze due to pi-hole block. Once set offline - issue is gone. I also know my robo vac is pinging, but at the same time if I block it, I’ll lose app controls which I wont do. Sadly, my vac doesn’t support Valetudo.
I think yes, to your first question. Couldn’t it just crunch the lidardata locally to feed into cartographer, I don’t understand why you don’t understand that this is the issue.
afaik the lidar data is crunched locally, then sent to the remote server for easy consumption
when those vacuums are flashed with valetudo, they can still make the map with lidar without internet connection
Exactly. So it’s pure surreptitious data exfiltration. They only reason they send the data back is because they can, and there is value for them.
I used to be on a mailing list where American companies offered money to people in the third world for menial manual tasks. Like sending pictures of random crap from different angles and such. One time I got an email offering 4 of these things and $100 and all I had to do was put one of them in my home and use it for a week and give the other 3 away. Goes without saying they’re clearly a privacy nightmare.
