or even just… what cops in the U.S. do to any minority.
Had a co-worker today try to be like “extra-legal executions just aren’t American” and I was like “welllll we sure seem to love doing them, especially against anyone with a skin color other than white.” Topic changed pretty quickly after that.
Or detention centers, prison and jail conditions have been absolutely disgusting in the US since forever.
I agree, the detention centers are abhorrent, but prison rape has been used as a fucking joke since I’ve been alive, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg. None of the jerk off politicians calling out these camps has done a fucking thing about the same shitty conditions that persist in their own districts to this very day.
detention centers, prison and jail
Private ones are a gold mine with the government handing people over as slaves.
I’ve got a folder on my computer documenting countless extra-legal executions by American law enforcement I could find. Videos, articles, documentaries, the whole shebang. Anyone shocked by this and saying it can’t happen here is being wilfully ignorant at this point.
If OP thinks those conversations haven’t been had, they are living in blissful ignorance.
I think the target audience for that tweet are the Obama worshipping, white, upper middle class, suburban Democrats. This country has done a lot of fucked up shit under Reagan, Clinton, W, Obama, Trump, Biden, and again now Trump. I’m not sure about HW Bush, but he use to head the CIA so…
The audience is really anyone who continues to feel even a scintilla of patriotism for this shithole.
Don’t confused patriotism with nationalism. Nationalists are rooting for ICE and Trump and all of those asshats. Nicole Good and Alex Pretti, and the many others out there still, are all Patriots.
Edit: I misspelled Alex Pretti’s name. My sincerest apologies.
As someone who knows the history of this country patriotism is barely distinguishable from nationalism.
So leave.
I would but there’s nowhere without a country to go to
You must become an astronaut. That’s all that left when you start thinkin’ I gotta get the hell out of here. Just need to create your own world with its own rules.
That’s the plan: become an astronaut, hollow out an asteroid with sunlight, and build an O’Neill cylinder inside.
“Have you tried just not being a mutant?”
Go where? It’s not like it was when Ellis Island was running. Anybody who immigrated through there would be an illegal immigrant today. Any Americans today whose parents or grandparents went through there are anchor babies who should be deported alongside the rest of their family under the current regime’s stance on immigration.
And it’s not any easier today to immigrate elsewhere. Unless you’re rich or have a degree that makes you a valuable commodity, most countries want nothing to do with you.
It is a meaningless distinction.
Worshipping Obama?
I seen you’ve made the common logical error of assuming the democrats worship their leaders. That’s something left wing and right wing extremists do in equal parts but everyone in between, is absolutely not worshipping any poltical leaders.
He was popular and his excellent oratory skills induced people that liked him to like him more personally
Just have to look at the country’s history. This is business as usual, it’s just now affecting the moderates.
You are talking about people who got lied to all their lives when they where kids.
There’s only so far one can claim ignorance as an excuse. I blame it on a mentality in the USA of people having such bad experience in public education that they “don’t want to learn no more.” The desire to question and expand one’s knowledge was ground away. As well it was easier to live in ignorance before the internet. Now it feels more of a choice.
These days? Sure. But back then it was a much different country. And a lot of solders came back as liberals, but according to lemmy they deserve to die anyway
Not all of lemmy does, but there’s some out spoken people I’ve seen I disagree with.
Most the people posting here sure seem to be.
They we’re not that stupid when they left. They chose team murder willingly, that’s not something you can just shed like so.
It’s the only way to have any kind of social mobility in the US. Do you realize how many lbgtq and minorities end up joining? This shit isn’t simple.
And that on top of all the lies and brainwashing
Ah, so murder is okay as long as you’re part of certain groups? Or is just being poor enough? Lower middle-class? Or is it a point system where you get enough and are excused so LGBT middle-class are still good people but a middle class straight man is a murderous monster?
You described most of lemmy. Not a person here has met a solder or had to deal with not having health care or not having any options of social mobility.
They want us to fight a revolution without anyone who can fight. And apparently Pretti deserved to die for helping fascists
Yes, the target audience is definitely not the actual fascists who are supporting the brownshirts and their actions.
Thank you for the knowledge. I wasn’t aware this concept existed, but it explains a lot.
deleted by creator
It works the same way with demographics as well.
Colonize a place and eventually you make allowances and permit some sort of “very strict” immigration from the colonized places. “The Goods Ones” and a few politicians that carrier water for you. But once you’ve broken the seal, it’s a slippery slope. Not too long after that you have “natives” who have squandered or never even had generational wealth that was the proceeds of colonialism seeing how they’ve been matched or out-classes by another group, and start to feel loss aversion.
Also works with foreign wars, as they require collaboration with a side in that war. Suddenly you have translators and local staff and spies and politicians and sudden spouses of soldiers, all legitimately asking for a taste of what they and their family suffered for (often quite a bit more than the foreign fighters, who sat in a tent directing things).
No, I yelled about what we did in Iraq too. A lot of us did. Listen to Ashes of the Wake by Lamb of God.
Unfortunately, you alone are not “most Americans”.
The 2008 election was most Americans and while it wasn’t solely about Iraq war it was resoundingly unpopular
Fascism is colonialism turned inward
Imperial boomerang.
Soldiers have way more trigger discipline than the gravy seals.
Yeah, that’s what I was going to say. There are lots of problems with the military, and there are also clear use of force guidelines. I’m not saying those are never violated, but they at least have them and more training.
Jonathan Ross was a soldier before he joined ICE.
Do you think its more likely that American soldiers have fantastic moral character and discipline or that American soldiers are not punished when they make mistakes?
Did you mean are punished?
I’m saying that an absence of records of punishing Americans for war crimes does not mean they don’t commit war crimes. I think its more likely that they aren’t punished at all, and if some are, its not reported.
Some of the best people I’ve ever met were Servicemembers… All of the worst people too. I’ve met some losers but some of the most high key bad people I’ve met were Servicemenbers…
I don’t have one of those. I have an ex-marine friend, who I chastised when he originally signed up I remember I joked “If you die in combat I’m going to kill you.” because he was basically my best friend at the time. He came from an extremely poor family.
He ended up (unwillingly) being assigned to being a MP, and ended up never shooting or bombing a soul. He was just agonizingly bored for hours and hours (He hoped for bar fights to break out just to fill the time). Hes now a union rep for a private security company and he hates all of his co-workers because he tells me they’re almost all [redacted] racist assholes (hes half black).
uhh im pretty sure everyday they just sat around base bored as fuck and jerking off. real life isnt a call of duty game people 😂
And yet more than a hundred thousand Afghani people died. I’m glad your trip was uneventful.
Shock and awe and civil unrest also took lives. The US gov’t at whole deservesbthe blame, and everyone in the military sure. But the indiscriminate murdering of civilians in the street was not common. US troops actually had rules of engagemrnt
You don’t have to murder civilians to humiliate, dehumanize and diminish them. You just have to disrespect them and show them they are powerless. Which both ICE and US military do.
Tell me you weren’t there without telling me 🙄
That’s not really accurate, the experience of an infantry soldier doing foot patrols in Afghanistan is completely different than someone who lived in a giant base in Iraq that had hiphop night and taco bell and never left it.
Can confirm, was a fobbit.
Most ICE officers start at the office, are their paycheck justified to you?
whataboutism
Poor reading comprehension.
why are u making fun of my wage
Ok this joke was actually funny lmao.
Easily proven true by endless apologia for US military members. When Russians do it, the are orc, when Americans do it, they were poor and needed healthcare.
It hadn’t occurred to me before your comment - they don’t want us to have Medicare For All because then the biggest and best benefit of going into military service would be available to every citizen. Or that’s surely one of the MANY horrible reasons they continue to fuck us on healthcare.
The military pipeline shuts down when good pay, housing, healthcare, etc. are provided to the proletariat.
It’s worse than that. Much like the corporate, “middle class” white collar structure depends on keeping people too indebted to ever really have power or freedom to negotiate for fairness, the military also depends on underpaying and overworking its people. They have to provide that same level of inadequacy, and then, make not getting it even more unbearable.
When you start to look at the math, a lot of the previously incomprehensible decisions of the government start to make sense. Why is abortion illegal? Because given free choice, poor people stop reproducing at levels needed to maintain the slave wage labor when they can’t afford the basic necessities to raise a family. Or more specifically, women do… you can find a willing sperm donor, but the mom gets told by society don’t have a baby you can’t afford, and does exactly that. And then they trot out a whole “God doesn’t like this” moral argument, all while happily looking the other way when it’s clear a bunch of their leaders party fucked kids on an offshore island.
My friend went into the military and, as he puts it, ‘swept sand in a sandstorm’ for most of his time there. His experience seemed to be mostly boredom. He wore a beard to hid his nega-chin and ended up working on AC units for the most part.
Let’s see, last time I checked Russia was releasing violent criminals to fight in Ukraine. You go ahead and find me a modern comparison from the U.S., I’ll wait.
Edit: violent criminals who rape new recruits, by the way — in the interest of clarity.
Let’s see, last time I checked Russia was releasing violent criminals to fight in Ukraine. You go ahead and find me a modern comparison from the U.S., I’ll wait.
I don’t have to play your stupid games. The vast majority of Russian soldiers are/were not convicts but either people who voluntarily joined their country’s army to make a living like your friend did or civilians who were drafted/conscripted. Most of them also did not kill or rape anyone like your friend. They probably would say they swept snow in a snowstorm instead.
Yet they still enable Russia’s attack on Ukraine. So did your friend with regards to USA’s attacks on Iraq, Afghanistan etc. Your friend is not better than them because he is your friend nor because he is American.
You mean my friend who was only ever in stationed in Texas?
Yeah you sure are good at determining my ‘stupid games’, you really got me there buddy. At least I know what to tag you.
You mean my friend who was only ever in stationed in Texas?
There certainly exists Russian military personnel that did not serve outside Russia. I bet you would not consider them as innocent as your friend.
Yeah you sure are good at determining my ‘stupid games’, you really got me there buddy. At least I know what to tag you.
Tag me a Russian shillbot if it makes you feel better.
I bet you would not consider them as innocent as your friend.
Why would you assume this?
Beyond which, to hate the U.S. military for their crimes one must hate the Russian military for theirs — lest they make themselves out to be a hypocrite. I don’t care if you want to call out the U.S. military, do not act like the Russians are guiltless or somehow deserving of compassion. I will feel no more compassion for them than I will U.S. soldiers in the event of an invasion of Canada or Greenland.
I never acted as if the Russians are guiltless for invading Ukraine, it’s you that’s acting as if Americans are guiltless for invading Iraq. That said both peoples are still human.
Care to explain why you disregard the invasion of Iraq that’s already happened and focus on a hypothetical invasion of Canada or Greenland?
Your friend is by your own logic then as innocent of the killing in that war is Putin is of the killing in Ukraine. He hasn’t shot anyone, just like your friend.
There is simply no fucking way you’re trying to say a grunt has as much responsibility as the dictator. I simply cannot entertain this lmao
Those are your words. If you think Putin is a murderer your friend is a murderer. Deal with it, friend of murderers.
You are braindead
The plural of anecdote is NOT data.
I’m not the one trying to suggest bums working on AC units in the states shoulder the same responsibility as hired guns and professional soldiers.
Theres a lot of rape going on in the us military too. Youll find lots of testemony about these crimes being silenced and unpunished, with a bit of research.
https://www.protectourdefenders.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MSA-Fact-Sheet-2021.pdf
You can say its different. Yes, i agree. But the us doesnt really have any moral high ground as your comment seems to suggest.
Oh rape isn’t the only problem I have with the Russia military, but I’m not about to provide an essay for you.
They surely have tons of horrible problems. But you seem to want to hold on to a feeling of moral superiority relative to the russians for some reason… which is just not real.
You double standards and cope, the American way
Orcmerica
The military is a social program.
They need the poors to fight their wars and work on their factory floors.
some of us grew up the children of natives and/or minorities
welcome to the party I guess
Ask a black person that has grown up in the USA, ask how free they have felt before even all this. I had one break it down for me and it started the trek to changing my view of the USA as well as political positioning. We’ve always been like this from inception, just it’s hitting close to home now the moderate is feeling the pain.
Nice to finally see other Americans waking the fuck up and realizing that this is what we’ve been doing to the rest of the world since the fucking inception.
I’ve been shouting it from the rooftops since I was young but boomers and gen x always wagged their finger at me “Don’t talk about that…”
“The Universal Soldier,” all about a soldier’s responsibility in the continuation of war, is one of my favorite protest songs from the 60s (though I am more familiar with Donovan’s version).
Maybe we can add some verses to this one?
… And he’s fighting for the fascists…
The Universal Soldier
Buffy Sainte-Marie
He’s five feet two and he’s six feet four
He fights with missiles and with spears
He’s all of 31 and he’s only 17
He’s been a soldier for a thousand yearsHe’s a Catholic, a Hindu, an atheist, a Jain,
a Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew
and he knows he shouldn’t kill
and he knows he always will
kill you for me my friend and me for youAnd he’s fighting for Canada,
he’s fighting for France,
he’s fighting for the USA,
and he’s fighting for the Russians
and he’s fighting for Japan,
and he thinks we’ll put an end to war this wayAnd he’s fighting for Democracy
and fighting for the Reds
He says it’s for the peace of all
He’s the one who must decide
who’s to live and who’s to die
and he never sees the writing on the wallsBut without him how would Hitler have condemned him at Dachau
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He’s the one who gives his body
as a weapon to a war
and without him all this killing can’t go onHe’s the universal soldier and he
really is to blame
His orders come from far away no more
They come from him, and you, and me
and brothers can’t you see
this is not the way we put an end to war.Grew up in a cult that refuses to do any military (JW), so at least one benefit I guess in that I was never brought up to venerate the military, or even any living person.
