I genuinely do not consider that to be controversial.
Fascists should be afraid for their safety, as a general rule. When they’re not, it’s a problem. As we can see now.
The controversy is not that you agree with this, it’s that some people don’t.
The controversy is coming when this list is contraband.
There’s a reason why they hide their faces and want to hide their identities … they know what they are doing is wrong. They’re gambling on the idea that if their fascist government stays in place, they’ll be rewarded … but if their fascist government fails, then they can go back to normal society if no one knows who they are.
If what they are doing is justified, moral and can be easily defended, then they would have no need to hide themselves.
Way more controversial that my tax dollars.oay people that are trying to conceal their identities…?
Like surely. I don’t see an argument between clandestine tax dollars thugs and a desire to clarify that clandestine bullshit.
You got it, if your job is to terrify and kidnap people, you should also be at least afraid for your life !
ICE agents arent fascists. They are americans who want a high paying job. Its an awful job and only barely worth it with a six figure salary. If people took more of a stand against working there, they would raise the wages until people want to.
In a way its a good thing these people are mostly doing it for money, which won’t much matter in a civil war.
You are clearly not paying attention to the crazy hiring spree ICE is doing, and the ads they’re posting to drive it, or the sort of people that they’re hiring, or their predominant beliefs.
Willful ignorance is a hell of a drug.
I know what they are doing, and I know the type of people working there. They are not unforgivable or unredeemable, as much as it makes you feel good to say so.
Lemmy and reddit both have a huge bias towards black and white thinking, which I think is shortsighted and immature.
If a fascist wants to become not a fascist, good for them, and yes, they should be embraced for turning their backs on that insanity.
That absolutely does not mean that fascists should be treated with kids gloves, or given the benefit of the doubt. Ever.
You get empathy when you walk away from that shit. Not before.
I simply dont think we should make them and their families scared to live in their homes. Thats not the point of all this, and its not going to change anyone’s mind.
I will not condone what ia being done but I’m also not going to condemn the people doing it.
It must be pointed out that a lot of the people doing it, especially recently, are racist, fascist assholes. So yeah, I’m absolutely going to condemn the people doing it. And I think your attempt to morally fence-sit on that topic is at best comically naïve, and at worst deeply disingenuous.
This dude is clearly ice.
Well you are entitled to your opinion after all. If you feel better for condemning them that good for you I guess.
Billionaires are just following the american dream, they found a high paying job is all. Its not their fault they did evil things along the way!
Come on y’all, let’s not pick on the poor fascists!
Are we talking about billionaires or ICE agents? ICE agents aren’t billionaires.
Were talking about fascists…
Might as well be talking about nothing then, because your definition of who is a fascist surely won’t match mine.
Do you have any comment about ICE agents or this post?
Yawn
This is how I know you’re debating in bad faith
I dont think you know what bad faith means. Its definitely not when you think someones contradicted themselves.
I asked who we were talking about again because this post and conversation is about ICE agents, not billionaires.
Unless there are some billionaires larping as ICE agents, then I dont see how thats relevant, and I dont care to start off on some tangent for no reason.
If you think I’m wrong though feel free to explain why.
No, because you’re debating in bad faith
Again, I dont think you understand the term. Bad faith isn’t someone you disagree with.
It’s a wonder these people can manage to post with their tongues wrapped so thoroughly around the boot.
ICE agents arent fascists.
How did you decide that? All polling disagrees with you, so what do you know that we don’t?
WELL IF THE POLLS SAY IT THEN IT MUST BE TRUE! FANTASTIC!
So when presented with reality instead of learning you revert to what your feelings tell you?
Are you implying polls accurately represent reality?
Yeah its unfortunate that people are susceptible to making actions against their own values. Fortunately people never stay the same and constantly grow and change.
Seems quite apologetic to somebody that would lock another living person in a cage.
Well I guess you just have never made a mistake in your life. Good for you, goodest boy/girl. I hope you get many pats on the head.
Real mature to minimize the act of irversibly ruining another human life as a “mistake”.
Well, I’m mocking you, and you are immature, so I think I hit the nail on the head actually.
When ICE is violently attacking civilians, there’s nothing controversial about naming and shaming the fascists involved.
Or prosecuting. I hope they get their comeuppance.
If your police cover their faces, they are not doing good work.
Police have never existed to serve the populace, they solely exist to protect the capital of the wealthy.
Police are a Status Quo maintenence force. The status quo fucking sucks.
But that’s on a different level than being allowed to cover your face while destroying lives and saying it is justified because occasionally you enforce laws
Define “never”. Never in as in never in the history of 21st century America? Pretty tame assertion. Never in the anthropological sense? That would be completely farcical.
Does this guy even know a time before 2010?
Uh… WTF are you smoking? You got any references to back up that pompous retort, or are you banking on the confidence of your palm alone to carry that wet fart aloft?
The whole masked officers thing really got me wondering how society would respond to a Batman like figure. I don’t think I realized bofore the ICE raids how absolutely horrible the concept of masked superheros was for a free society, even after consuming some media that tried to focus on this issue, like the Watchmen.
Et tu, Phoenix Jones?
Ah, I wasn’t even really thinking of Phoenix, but excellent reference, and he sounds like such a mess. To be fair though, most of what I know about the dude is from “The Superhero Complex” podcast.
I feel like a lot of people knew who Phoenix was though, and so he was at least accountable for his actions in most cases. ICE appears to be acting in a way to purposely avoid accountability.
Bandits
“I want to publicly shame them into resigning, because they don’t wear masks for safety. They wear them because they know their neighbors won’t invite them to dinner anymore, that their children or their children’s friends’ parents won’t want them at a baseball game. They care about their personal lives, but not about their safety,” Skinner said in a telephone interview with EL PAÍS from the Netherlands, where he lives.
This is the way.
They are literally covering their faces because they are afraid on the public. They are normal people just like you and I. They need money to support their family just like you and I. Focusing on individual agents is wasteful and cruel.
If a civil war comes, people will need to be able to say they were wrong and switch sides, which means that ICE agents will in fact help save the country.
Being bigoted is not helpful.
If a civil war comes we need to know who isn’t trustworthy in leadership. This is a list of those people.
Your misuse of the word “bigoted” is disgraceful. These people chose to lock up other humans in cages to be shipped to countries with worse cages.
They can support their families by getting a real job and not being a class traitor.
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Are we talking about ICE agents or leaders? I could have sworn this post was about the people on the ground who aren’t giving orders but taking them. I would hold leaders to a different standard.
Both shouldn’t be in any leadership capacity. As they have failed to recognize the value of human life and they would likely do it again.
All americans to some extent devalue human life. The entire economy is based on it. Whether you are ignorant of that fact or not makes a big difference. This is not an individual problem, it is a societal one. We won’t fix anything unless we treat each other like humans and communicate with each other in good faith.
People will have to live with the mistakes of their past, just like anyone else, but they should not be labelled as unredeemable or unforgivable.
Then the economy is broken. It is in fact a societal problem. Money shouldn’t exist and every human need should be freely offered and labor should traded for this opportunity. We wount fixes this until capitalism falls. We wount stop devaluing human life and we won’t treat eachother like humans as long as “the economy” exists.
People have to live with the mistake of their past but society shouldn’t not be able to take it into account. This is how we got Epstein, Jerry Sandusky, Harvey Weinstein, and Donald Trump.
If I read you correctly, you are saying we need a civil war and social breakdown to get rid of capitalism. I might agree with that, but if thats true then why doxx ICE agents? How is that helping the downfall of capitalism?
It’s like you never paid any attention to what we did to the rank and file Nazis…
Did you? What do you think happened to them when the war ended?
A lot of prison time. If not the end of a noose.
PoWs had an awful time after the war, but for those who weren’t captured, simply being a nazi was not a crime and most were not tried unless they had committed specific war crimes.
So no, those who were just following orders were not punished for it.
If ignorance is bliss, you must be an angel.
No I just live in reality, not in lemmy echo chambers.
Closet fascist detected. It sounds like you’re one of the people needing doxxing, tbh. You are defending MASKED, unidentified assailants who are kidnapping random people, including citizens, off the streets, to be imprisoned in another country under 3rd world standards. GTFO of here, fascist !
There is nothing normal about what ICE agents are doing. If they had a shred of humanity, they wouldn’t carry out such heinous acts.
Thats a lot of assumptions about why they are doing what they are.
What is being assumed?
That if they were human they wouldnt do what they are doing. At least you are more honest than most in this thread by actually saying out loud that you think ICE agents aren’t people.
If they weren’t nazis, they wouldn’t do nazi shit.
Cool, I’d like for them to be able to learn to not be Nazis anymore. Its nice that you grew up in a way that made it obvious, but some won’t learn until way later in life.
When did I say that? Quote me.
Thats how I interpreted what you said, its not a quote. Reread your own post if you would like.
humanity: noun, meaning humaneness or benevolence. Similar to compassion.
So yes, I do think a lack of humanity is a problem ICE agents exhibit.
Throwing away your humility means you don’t get treated as such. Simple as that.
Cool I’ll just wait for you to make an unforgivable mistake and then decide you are an “other” who doesnt deserve basic human rights. Fantastic value system you have there.
Which protected class are we being bigoted against?
I’m not here to argue legality.
Most of the people here are bigoted against ICE agents, and most of the people here are proud of that. I’m not expecting you to agree with me, if that helps.
You’re here to defend nazis.
I’m here trying to remind people that their fellow citizens are far more similar than they are different, and we should treat each other with dignity and respect. I dont see how anything else helps. Doxxing people and their families, especially when the site is hosted by some random person on the internet, is shortsighted and cruel. I dont approve of citizens being cruel to each other whether its ice agents or regular people.
The lack of understanding and empathy in this country is a huge part of the problem.
You can’t be bigoted against a job. It’s not like you are born as an ICE agent and it’s just who you are. It’s an active choice to start kidnapping children, not something innate like being black or gay.
Sure you can. I hate car mechanics. Untrustworthy fucks. Lazy assholes. Cause new problems just to charge me with. If I see a mechanic on the street, I spit on them. They know to stay away from me by now though.
I really dont think its so hard to be bigoted in a bunch of ways. Maybe I’m using an inaccurate word though?
You’re an ice agent aren’t you?
Nope, I could use the money but its against my values to work there.
BINGO !! I’m pretty sure you nailed it. That guy oozes fascism!
(hyperbole for emphasis) hey guys, they were normal people like you and I. They’re just supporting their families! - You when talking about the workers at Dachau and Auschwitz
They were people, but let’s not pretend they were innocent. Shame is a great motivator, and would influence many ICE agents to stop what they’re doing, or at least behave better, I would argue.
Letting law enforcement conceal their identity is some literal fascist shit - that’s not hyperbole.
The rest of the world (where I’m from) is looking on with extreme concern.
Yeah things are rough, and then they won’t be and people will need to be able to move on.
If I was in another country though, I’m sure I would dismiss americans humanity too.
then they won’t be and people will need to be able to move on
Wtf are you advocating for here?
That law enforcement shouldn’t face repercussions if they’re breaking the law (or violating generally accepted human rights)?
No, ICE agents covering up their face, so they don’t have to face consequences, shouldn’t be able to just move on after the fact.
Are you allergic to the concept of accountability?
It’s absolutely bizarre that you are arguing for the humanity of Americans, when that’s not your position. Your argument is for the “humanity” of those within law enforcement wanting no consequences for their actions.
It’s very naive to think this isn’t troubling for EVERYONE in the US, not just the alleged foreigners (who, in many cases, are completely legally in your country and have done nothing wrong).
The US is a imperial nation, so I have every right to comment on your politics, as a vassal of the US.
Bruh, as much as I’d like to see you cry about how the leopards ate your face (when you inevitably face the consequences of this slide into fascism), I’d much rather see the US have some semblance of sanity. Because we’re just standing here with our pants down, entirely at your military’s mercy (Australia).
It’s about time we diversify our security partners, holy balls.
Read a book, learn some history, you made be troubled when you do.
They are normal people. Fine. Granted. If normal people realize their mistakes, recognize the harm done, and actively work to fix it, then that is an option in a good society. But they must put forth the effort to do so. They cannot skate by and return to mundane life with a simple apology. Don’t infantilize these adults who have made decisions and used their agency for evil. You seem to want to pardon them long before any of them have faced real consequences. Stop making excuses. They have to be dragged into the light first in order to face the society they are hurting. How else do you expect that to happen?
We need to publish home addresses, make them scared.
So there actually is a federal (felony) law against that, but not against sharing their names: 18 U.S. Code § 119. This is the most a website could legally get away with, at least for US Citizens. It may not apply to Ice List’s designer (Edit: Who is Irish and living in the Netherlands, which I believe is part of 14 Eyes), but I am not a lawyer.
Another amendment to make when we’re in power
We, the proletariat, will probably never be in power in the US
Is someone really an immigration agent when they spend no time providing immigration services to the public?
Most of these people seem to be isolation and deportation agents.
Controversial to whom exactly?
The ICE agents on that list, as well as the ones scared of being on future lists.
☝️
I wonder how kidnappy the kidnappers would be if they faced justice.
when this is over they should all go to jail. fuck em.
but I’m already pissed knowing that if democrats ever get back on power, they will do nothing, doubt they’ll even reduce ICE’s funding.
Yes, it’ll all be about “unity” and “healing”.
Note that even in Germany post WW II, where a real effort was made and at least the official line was uncompromising, the large majority of Nazis and their ideas in politics, society, law, industry GOs and NGOs died slowly of old age over the next 50 years. Without that effort, even a future Democratic president (if even possible) would just be a waiting game for the next Trump.
nothing heals a nation like not having any fascists.
If they’ve done nothing wrong then there’s no reason to hide.
Tennessee Rep. Marsha Blackburn wants the identities of federal officials carrying out President Donald Trump’s deportation campaign to remain secret for security reasons. To that end, she introduced the Protecting Law Enforcement from Doxxing Act, which would make it illegal to publish the name of a federal law enforcement officer with the intent to obstruct a criminal investigation or immigration operation. Skinner, for his part, has proposed the opposite: to publish as many names of the officers and their collaborators as possible.
This list is for future prosecutions, and as such doesn’t run afoul of this proposed law.
So we are already at the point where ice agents will be put in prison?
They’re certianly afraid of it. The situation is not nearly as rigged as they want you to believe, that’s why they’re trying so hard to make it so
I just won’t blame the ICE agents for it, I’ll blame those that make decisions that lead to bad outcomes. This website doxxing ICE is a waste of time and energy. In my opinion its stepping backwards as well.
You don’t blame the ice agents for assaulting and kidnapping people?
No because they have been convinced they are being good citizens by doing it. They aren’t evil people being evil for shits and giggles. I will allow them the chance to redeem themselves and I will offer them forgiveness when the time comes, just like I would anyone else.
Internet purity tests just dont work out in real life. People dont live mistake free lives, nor do they ever stop learning.
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No because they have been convinced they are being good citizens by doing it. Honestly, fuck you, germ !
I appreciate the Mac Miller reference.
In case you missed it:
I see extremely poorly trained and confused ICE agents. They seem somewhat scared as it goes on too. Every person in that video is a victim of what’s going on with american leadership.
with the intent to obstruct a criminal investigation or immigration operation.
Intent is often one of the hardest things to prove in court cases anyway, often requiring additional sources of information to assess state of mind (mens rhea). At least, in a society where law matters. That said, if we assume US law matters at all (which you should never assume considering its historical actions), the stated goal of the site is for future prosecutions, as you’ve said and I agree.
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It’s a cruel twist of fate that the only ICE agent who doesn’t hide their face is Kristi Noem.
She has hidden her face behind a plastic mask permanently sewn on
It’s about time. The only government employee that should have their identities held in secrecy are CIA agents. The rest can f-off and every single US taxpayer should know who is on the damn payroll. Fuck the US version of the RSHA and NKVD.
CIA agents aren’t government employees.
Or so you’ve led to believe.
A lot of the confusion comes from the fact that the FBI refers to is personnel as agents, whereas “agent” means something entirely different to the CIA.
CIA agents aren’t employees of the CIA, but are people in other positions that are being used by the CIA. This can include informants, spies, etc.
It’s like a Sunshine List for dickheads
They are fed workers there’s no reason to be secretive.
