Been a long time Debian user but with the recent AI decision I am planning on moving on so anyone have an anti-AI recommendations? I understand its being used in the kernel as well but are there any distros taking a full anti-AI approach to the parts of the code they control?

Since folks seem a little confused on what I am referring to here is the mailing list page regarding the use of gen ai without disclosure vote: https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2026/08/msg00360.html

Phoronix article on it: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Debian-Votes-Responsible-AI-Use

  • Optional@lemmy.world
    27·
    2 months ago

    Maybe this is the push you need to . . . Yes, maybe it’s time for . . . FreeBSD.

    Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

    • WorkingPie@feddit.onlineOPEnglish
      12·
      2 months ago

      I’ve been tempted to give it a go a few times. Mainly for fun tbh. Appreciate the recommendation!

      • korthrun@piefed.socialEnglish
        1·
        2 months ago

        I believe that there is now LLM generated code in the Linux kernel, so BSD is probably going to be where this path leads you. Solaris or AIX maybe ;p

    • neidu3@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      4·
      2 months ago

      I’ve been meaning to revisit FreeBSD for a while, I just haven’t gotten around to it.

      I used FreeBSD extensively from versi9n 3.3 to 5something and barely touched linux back then. Only reason why I moved to linux was the larger community.

      Then suddenly Linux became a good desktop OS without much hazzle at all, so it replaced both desktop and server-side use for me.

      How is FreeBSD as a desktop OS these days? I vaguely remember compiling xfree86 from /usr/ports some 25 years ago, and dicking around with monitor sync rates to get Gnome to display properly.

      • Optional@lemmy.world
        1·
        2 months ago

        To be honest that was sort of my story too - played around 15-20 years ago with it, then Debian (and the rest) Got Good and I just haven’t gone back.

        Maybe I was just talking to myself.

        Hmm.

    • morto@piefed.socialEnglish
      2·
      2 months ago

      In purely utilitarian terms, are there any interesting differences in using freebsd or other bsds instead of linux?

      • Optional@lemmy.world
        4·
        2 months ago

        Well, back in the day the guy who was really into it would bug out his eyes at you and go “Oh YES! There’s . . . “ and he’d immediately list two or three huge differences and then downshift to a bunch of reasons why that’s better™ and then you’d go home and not remember a single one very well.

        These days I don’t really know. Is there a little red devil in the house?

      • provectus@lemmy.mlEnglish
        2·
        2 months ago

        NetBSD is more portable than Linux and supports a lot of CPU architectures. OpenBSD is secure by default. I think the BSD’S have jails, which are better containers, but I do not know much about it.

        For desktop daily use, it only matters if you really want that Unix taste.

  • kbal@fedia.io
    17·
    2 months ago

    Damn it I was just asking myself the same question. I don’t expect it to be easy to find one that’s anywhere near as good as Debian but without that one problem. I think a lot of them won’t have any firm policies yet.

  • ikidd@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    14·
    2 months ago

    More performative bullshit. Debian will get along just fine, maybe with fewer bugs if the LKML and Greg KH is to be believed.

    Downvote away, as you haul out your phones to ask ChatJippity where to go for dinner tonight.

  • hexagonwin@lemmy.today
    14·
    2 months ago

    i wouldn’t say they’re “embracing AI” or ‘sloppified’… but anyway.

    i think slackware isn’t using llm stuff for development. it’s my daily/fav distro. but it’s quite different from debian.

  • BJW@lemmus.orgEnglish
    13·
    2 months ago

    This shit’s hilarious. It’s like boycotting companies where they’ve voted to allow people to breathe oxygen.

    Everything will have AI in the future, and it’s impossible to discern when it was used. Attempting to ban it is hilarious because it can’t be enforced since it’s undetectable, so the ban is completely ineffective. It’s just pandering to luddites.

    At least it’s amusing to watch.

    • ExperimentalGuy@programming.dev
      22·
      2 months ago

      Nothing wrong with being a Luddite, the movement was originally for workers rights and not removing thousands of years of handed down artisan craft that was being industrialized. We both know technologies like this are being used to concentrate wealth. I’m personally not against AI as long as its used in moderation, but insulting those who want to boycott because they see the harms of wide scale usage is simply ignorant, much like your comparison to the Luddite movement.

      • Taldan@lemmy.world
        4·
        2 months ago

        I’m against AI when it replaces human art, or substantially degrades quality

        I don’t see code at art, and AI code sufficiently reviewed by a human isn’t bad quality. Saying that as a dev myself

        AI code with sufficient review is good enough for Torvalds, good enough for me

        That being said, I hate AI websites. They all look so generic. Claude especially really has a style it uses every damn time. Web design is at least partially art, and AI sucks at it

      • BJW@lemmus.orgEnglish
        3·
        2 months ago

        Okay, then, Neo-Luddite/technophobe. Specifically, the people who are opposed to the technology for sake of being opposed.

        I personally believe that governments should implement an AI tax, so that the technology created with the combination of everyone’s contributions actually benefits everyone. However, whether that happens or not, the technology isn’t going anywhere. And it’s not detectable. So being in opposition to it is pointless.

        They should oppose data centers, or specific uses of AI (such as for military purposes) but a blanket opposition to the technology itself? It’s moronic.

    • some_random_nick@lemmy.world
      14·
      2 months ago

      Did you really compare using AI to breathing fucking oxygen? We will see if AI will be everywhere once the money runs dry and subscriptions increase hundredfold to compensate for the costs.

      • liking625@lemmy.world
        5·
        2 months ago

        I agree, but is it ever going to conpletely dissapear? I understand and loathe how big corps are pushing their bubbles to maximize profits and run with the money, I am for forbidding massive datacenters and everything that will just make all of us and the planet worse, but once all that passes and the dust settles, llm and such are tools, are they going to dissapear? I myself see them as a tool, as a hammer, not to be used for cooking, laundry and such, but a tool nonetheless, is banning the whole thing realistic? Perhaps I am missing much info here though.

      • BJW@lemmus.orgEnglish
        2·
        2 months ago

        I did. It’s going to be ubiquitous. I know the majority of Lemmy wishes it wasn’t, but wishing doesn’t change anything.

        Every single of the involved companies could go bankrupt and it wouldn’t change a thing. I mean, I have several different models on my phone, depending on my planned usage, and things are just starting to gain momentum.

    • ATS1312@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      10·
      2 months ago

      As a person who agrees with you:

      Can you at least try to be convincing instead of coming off like an asshole?

      • BJW@lemmus.orgEnglish
        2·
        2 months ago

        I would, but I’ve spent months being belittled by people on Lemmy insisting I’m wrong. Only those people with that attitude would be offended by my tone, so it seems appropriate, no?

      • BJW@lemmus.orgEnglish
        1·
        2 months ago

        I can name reasons for every single one of these devices to have AI that would make them better. You lack imagination.

        Here’s a few:

        Toaster - it can determine the heat and duration needed for the bread/bagel based on the thickness and density, without needing to manually guess the settings

        Fridge - aware of the contents so it can set the thermostat at the ideal temperature range, even better if it’s in control of internal flaps to automatically compartmentalize the contents for optimal storage

        Toothbrush - able to scan your teeth while you better and inform you if your brushing was adequate or if you missed any plaque, on which teeth, and warn you of developing cavities

        Bedside light - aware of if you’re in the bed, and whether you’re attempting to go to sleep, or are asleep, based on preferences and rules you give it beforehand, in plain language

        I could keep going, but I think my point is made. You either lack imagination, or you’re scared of innovation, but your limitations should not hold back everyone else. I’m glad Debian is bravely embracing the future for the good of all the users, instead of hissing at the dawn of a new era, and retreating to the darkness of the past.

        • TehPers@beehaw.orgEnglish
          1·
          2 months ago

          Not sure whether the goalpost is set to LLMs or ML in general, but OP clearly is drawing the line at LLMs, so:

          Toaster - it can determine the heat and duration needed for the bread/bagel based on the thickness and density, without needing to manually guess the settings

          This is already done with traditional models in rice cookers, pressure cookers, and so on. It doesn’t need LLMs.

          Fridge - aware of the contents so it can set the thermostat at the ideal temperature range, even better if it’s in control of internal flaps to automatically compartmentalize the contents for optimal storage

          Some smart fridges have tracked their contents for years now and sell that data to advertisers.

          Toothbrush - able to scan your teeth while you better and inform you if your brushing was adequate or if you missed any plaque, on which teeth, and warn you of developing cavities

          I know there’s some crazy toothbrushes out there, but the closest equivalent I know of is my shaver which actually does give recommendations on how to shave better. Or it would, anyway, if I linked it to a mobile app that’s never going to touch my phone. I got this shaver around 5y ago, again predating LLMs.

          Bedside light - aware of if you’re in the bed, and whether you’re attempting to go to sleep, or are asleep, based on preferences and rules you give it beforehand, in plain language

          The last thing I want is for my bedside lamp to have a camera and perform object detection in my bedroom just to turn off automatically when I get in bed lol. Plus, I usually don’t want the light off as soon as I’m in bed. In any case, traditional models could do this, but multi-modal LLMs tend to perform better.

  • bring-april-plenty@kbin.earth
    13·
    2 months ago

    Gentoo, but I think this isn’t the end of the world that you think. I don’t like AI but as others said, think Debian will do something at least reasonable. Also, I think there is a distinction between LLMs/AI and the crap companies like OpenAI, Microsoft, etc.

    be mad but at the right thing

  • sbeak@sopuli.xyzEnglish
    12·
    2 months ago

    I believe Fedora requires disclosure on the use of LLMs in contributions, and that fully generated submissions are not allowed, so slightly better than Debian in this respect (https://docs.fedoraproject.org/council/policy/ai-contribution-policy/)

    Linux Mint is always a nice option, but I can’t find an LLM policy for them, but given that they are removing snaps and other Ubuntu bits that nobody likes by default, I would imagine they are more resistant on LLM contributions. They don’t have a policy set in place for this though.

    Arch Linux (and derivatives, I currently use EndeavourOS but many like CachyOS too!) are awesome too if you are alright with rolling release. Again, no LLM policy I can find (I didn’t look very hard though, I have better things to do), but I imagine they would be more resistant to it.

    I am moving to Piefed at scallisto@retrofed.com (https://retrofed.com/u/scallisto)

    • Crozekiel@lemmy.zipEnglish
      10·
      2 months ago

      Mint is still downstream of Debian though, which will make them taking a stance against it pretty tough.

  • FedX@quokk.auEnglish
    11·
    2 months ago

    Surprisingly only been mentioned once, but Chimera! It’s weird and strange and brilliant!

    If you want something slightly more normal (well, actually, it’s not any more normal, just more common), then you can get PostmarketOS installed on anything if you go outside the documentation a little (it’s really not hard, pmbootstrap is quite a good utility). If you take that route, I recommend OpenRC as not only is PMOS anti-AI, but so is OpenRC!

    • njm1314@lemmy.world
      9·
      2 months ago

      I wouldn’t call that neutral. Allowing it with no disclosure sounds like embracing but trying to hide it.

  • Sims@lemmy.mlEnglish
    11·
    2 months ago

    I think it’ll get harder and harder to find ‘pure’ distros. For a while you can maybe rely on something similar to Gnu linux-libre kernel that removes proprietary blobs, or BSD, or Gnu Hurd kernels etc, but linux-libre is already a pain if you need certain hw drivers, and eventually an anti-ai kernel will become crippled even worse, and it will become too hard to keep track of what kernels/parts of kernels is AI assisted code or not.

    In the future, more and more new features will be from ai assisted code, and pretty soon, the anti-ai kernel will lose out to ai-assisted kernels in features, speed and soon stability (bug-finding etc).

    The same goes for the rest of the distros that tries to avoid ai-assisted tools and code, and you/others will imho get completely swamped by this transformation. In fact, you will most certainly need an agent to keep constant track of this development.

    I’m okay with AI, but I kind of feel for those trying to avoid it. Its hard enough just to avoid proprietary crap, and to me, avoiding ai-assists, is an even bigger mountain to climb. I do wish you all best of luck on that journey.

    Ps. There ARE fully open models trained on fully libre with open libre data-sets, and for you - ethical data oriented - you could/should? probably accept that ‘non-pure’ situation, and use such an open llm to either maintain an ethical distro, or keep unethical ai-assist as low as you can get away with, for as long as you can.

    • hexagonwin@lemmy.today
      3·
      2 months ago

      would you mind sharing an example of such libre model? i’m not into LLMs (more like “anti-ai”) and searching for keywords like “open source” llms just gives result to open(?) weight stuff like qwen

  • Denys Nykula@piefed.socialEnglish
    10·
    2 months ago

    Gentoo, postmarketOS, GNU Guix, Chimera Linux? Not seeing myself abandoning Debian because of that decision though.