cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/49853131
Feels to me like GrapheneOS did exactly what it should, passing the US border test with flying colours!
Funny part about this lawsuit: “With a little planning ahead of time, you can always download the data you need once you get to where you’re going,”
this was a streisand effect for me because i didn’t have duress password set up on my grapheneos phone (security & privacy => device unlock) before but i do now! :D
best promotion ever haha What is it? FU-123?
On GrapheneOS, you can also set a “second factor PIN” in the unlock settings under “Fingerprint Unlock”, so that to unlock your screen you need to first use the fingerprint unlock and then separately enter your PIN. This means BOTH are required every time you unlock. Your phone can’t be unlocked unless it’s your finger AND unless you enter the PIN that only you know.
And under the Screen Lock settings you can also enable “Scramble PIN input layout”, so that the number buttons on your unlock screen will be out of order, so people watching you or recording you can’t just make note of the shape your index finger is making when touching the numbers to unlock your phone(like people looking over your shoulder or recording on store security cameras).
What I find foolish is there’s no pin only to unlock (no biometrics), but biometrics available when unlocked
Plenty of my apps have biometric verification I’d love to take advantage of, but I don’t need or want one to unlock the phone itself
But there is
Settings > Security & Privacy > Device Unlock > Fingerprint and there you can toggle to use the fingerprint for device unlocking and/or verification in Apps
Huh cool
That definitely was not there when I installed GrapheneOS
Perfectly legal. Unless they were legally charged and ordered by a court to preserve data considered to be used in a crime, they can’t be charged with shit. Cops don’t dictate this, courts do, AND that scope only applies to an active prosecution anyway.
Legality seems to be a fairytale concept in the USA, except for oligarchs. They get full legal coverage.
Perfectly legal. Unless they were legally charged and ordered by a court to preserve data considered to be used in a crime, they can’t be charged with shit. Cops don’t dictate this, courts do, AND that scope only applies to an active prosecution anyway.
I’m not a lawyer, so I’m not arguing that you’re wrong here, but the article describes the federal law the journalist was charged with. It seems very broad, and it’s a bullshit law, but from what’s here, it seems more grey area than perfectly legal. All of 2232 seems to require knowledge (which it seems like he had, but might be arguable) and action. You could argue that the journalist didn’t take any affirmative action to wipe the phone. The action that wiped it was the feds entering a code.
Yeah, you’re wrong in a number of different ways. No, you’re not a lawyer.
What you linked to is precedent par notice. Every single subordinate literally mentions notice.
A law enforcement officer of ANY type is not able able to issue that notice.
It depends. If the police suspect the owner has evidence of some sort on the phone, destroying it can lead to a tampering with evidence charge from the police.
A tampering charge doesn’t have to be from a court order. If someone eats or dumps out drugs where the police can’t collect the physical drug, it will stick.
But in the story’s case, it falls within the 100 miles of the US boarder (called a boarder search exception) a warrant, probable cause, or RAS aren’t needed here. It’s considered a reasonable search so the 4th amendment is limited here.
There is a lot to it and really don’t think this is the best format for it here.
It does not depend. 4th amendment is superceded by any state law, and it’s SUPER clear that unless a crime has been committed and prosecutorial procedures are in place, no search or seizure is legal.
That’s the whole point.
It’s a federal law. It’s been legal since the constitution was written. There have been numerous court hearings stating it’s legal.
You might want to reread the 4th again. The supreme court has ruled international boarder crossing as a reaonable search, thus no warrant, RAS, or PC needed.
Again…you can SEARCH all you want. Whether you find anything is not mandated.
I’m not sure what’s so hard to understand about this.
And if you destroy evidence during an official investigation, it’s tampering.
I’m not sure why you’re so confidently wrong. It’s fucking embarrassing.
Did you read the article and the laws pertaining to data seizure at the border? Crossing the border doesn’t constitue an investigation of ANY kind, and also doesn’t suddenly conjure up some sort of suspicion that a crime is in progress or has been committed, meaning no pretense for charges because PERSONAL DATA was not seized. Good lawd.
If it was evidence, they fucked up BIG TIME if their actions weren’t read-only from the beginning. A distress password would be an attempt at destruction of evidence, but completely unsuccessful.
This is why I’m never going to the US until all this shit is fixed. Which will probably be never
Tourists going to the US and US residents leaving should take a burner phone.
Citizens too, at this point.
Definitely
I lost interest of ever visiting again when they started collecting fingerprints from everyone visiting.
Where are you located? Biometric passports needs your fingerprints since ages already.
Ages… You young ones… (decades, yes)
Locally I am okay with it (possibly not having a choice anyway) but you got shafted post 9/11. So I was there a few times before that.
I can travel freely in the EU.
Decades is ages for most human beings 😁
I’m not an American but yeah that bs sure creeped over here after 2001.
Edit: you still need an ID (like a passport) to travel in the EU, it’s just that no one cares if you don’t take the plane or go to sweden.
You can go from Portugal to Poland with your country’s ID… And don’t be required to show it anywhere.
I have my Personalausweis and Reisepass but sometimes don’t even need it when being checked in, depending from which country to which. It’s strange sometimes.
Ah yes I actually had to look up the definition of ages with the translation. For me it subjectively differs in the meaning with the German translation so you’re right, it just means a long time. For me ages is more akin to ancient 😁 so I might need to rectify that.
Welcome to the club of the ancient 😁!
Yes, thanks!
You can sand your fingerprints painlessly with fine sandpaper, my dad did it so he didn’t have to clock in at work
Lol. CBP taking man to court after agency says “we just know he did this on purpose!”
Say more
That’s it, you just sand them off, it works best if done slowly over a long period of time, they will grow back.
Same is true for the entire Shengen zone. I was fingerprinted flying into Germany
And pictures for facial recognition
Pretty sure most countries do this now, sadly.
Good. Annoying to rebuild his phone, but better than handing it to fascists who don’t even have a lawful court order for it.
In all likelihood they kept his phone and will retain possession until charges are dismissed. Get a burner phone and wipe it before going through security. I assume if they see your phone is “fresh” they’ll take it on suspicion anyway.
Would you want the phone back after it’s been in their hands? I wouldn’t trust them to leave it alone.
I mean yeah, might be a fun reverse-engineering project to look for any backdoors or other modifications to the device.
GOS has boot attestation. But yeah, if I would travel to the US (I will no longer do that) I would bring a sacrificial device.
There are exploits that may work on a different level than bootloader
True, Pixel hardware itself might be backdoored out of the factory. But you have to titrate professional paranoia down to functional levels.
Surely he was also using the built in backup feature, if he was he would have been able to grab another used Pixel, install GOS, then just recover from his backup (I haven’t tried the restore yet just because I’m lazy, fingers crossed it works).
Good.
That’s legal, fuck you. It’s my data, and I want it (gone) now!
Its good if the courts hold that sentiment up in his favor.
If they don’t and take the border patrols side in this case then this just sets a horrific precedent for the future.
I hope the feds get raked over the coals in this court case and not only loose but get the dog shit sued out of them for this stunt.
I’m not optimistic anymore though.
claimed they did not need a warrant to search Tunick’s phone because he had not yet crossed the U.S. border.
Also no right to search / seize his phone then. US law doesn’t apply on non-US soil.
If it’s not US soil, it’s not a detention, it’s a rendition, a kidnapping.
Also, I don’t know how citizenship works I this respect in the US, but in my country a citizen cannot be denied entry. It can be detained upon entering, but by then you are in sovereign soil.
Its the same in the US. They can’t deny entry to US citizens.
But what law/rights do apply there?
US law. But the law they used as a excuse is bullshit.
When in doubt, do not travel To US&A
Hmm. Maybe DHS can fuck all the way off?
Sounds like the border guard wiped his phone, not him.
Would be cool to have your device partitioned by separate passwords, so you could unlock a dummy system.
This is an excellent idea honestly.
There are ways to do this on some devices. Here’s an article about it, Google translate’d to English:
yes you can. On Graphene you can set the main profile as just there with nothing except to control wifi/add esim/etc. Then you can create many profiles with their own passwords. You can store your work stuff in 1 profile, private stuff in another. You can even create a dummy profile with fake Google. .
The downside currently is that the OS autoboot to main profile. Then you switch to your other profiles.
Good writeup, and the downside you flagged is the interesting bit. Profiles are enumerable. A dummy profile survives a glance at the screen and stops working the second someone can see profile 2 exists and asks you to open it.
The property you want on top of your setup is that the second thing can’t be shown to exist at all, so it looks like random noise rather than a locked door. Then the dummy isn’t a dummy, it’s just the phone.
(I work on DeniableOS, which is built around that. Your profile setup is still the right free answer for most people and I wouldn’t talk anyone out of it.)
I believe some password manager (was it 1Password?) has this
That exists. The thing to watch is the difference between separate profiles and a hidden one.
Graphene gives you multiple profiles with their own passwords, but profiles are enumerable. Anyone poking at the device sees that profile 2 is there, so “open that one too” is the obvious next sentence.
The version you’re describing works when the second environment can’t be shown to exist at all, so it reads as encrypted random noise, which is what empty encrypted space looks like anyway. One PIN gets you a full boring phone, the other gets you your real one.
Only holds up if the boring phone is actually convincing though. Six apps and no photos fails on the spot.
(I work on DeniableOS, which does the hidden version, so weigh that how you like.)
What? US police can ask you for the phone password? No way! That is 100% police state. Stalin was amateur comparing to present day USA.
Yes US citizens cannot be compelled to provide a password, but biometrics such as fingerprint or Face ID can. Disable these when crossing into the US.
Non citizens can be detained and rejected for not providing access to a device via password. Best to bring a second device if you must enter. Depressing times.
I don’t believe you can be compelled to provide a password. That does after all (at the very least) constitute speech. And freedom of speech is also freedom of non-speech, they can’t make you say something.
They will however try to make you do that… In many situations authorities are allowed to lie to you. So that’s sucks. They can tell you that you’re required to unlock your phone, you just have to know that your not actually.
Also they can’t make you say anything, but they can make you do things, like for instance “put your finger here” or “look into this camera”, which is why biometric unlock is unsafe around cops.
There’s that one guy who is being held in contempt of the court (to be clear this is not the police asking for his password, but a judge in a court of law) because he won’t give a password to decrypt a hard drive.
They believe it is highly likely that the drive contains sexually explicit material of children, which is why he’s being held in prison until he gives up the password.
I would want to catch pedophiles too, but I seriously don’t believe a damn thing any branch of this government says about anyone.
For all I know he has a video of trumps night out at Epstein island and that’s why they want the password to destroy it.
Obviously probably not but still, I’m supposed to just take the scouts honor of our unhonorable government that this guy totally has this on his hard drive even if they can’t prove it?
They could say this about any of us at any time for any devices password we won’t give them.
I don’t agree with this precedent.
Oh yeah I think it’s terrible this guy is imprisoned for not giving up a password, for something they can’t prove. Like they shouldn’t be able to detain someone indefinitely for an unproven crime. At some point they have to release them or it’s guilty until proven innocent.
he’s being held in prison until he gives up the password
So basically he is in prison without proven guilty? That is exactly how “Communist” countries did: “you are probably guilty and just in case you will spend next 10-20 years in prison untill you admit your guilt”. Now is “OK” for pedophiles, next will be OK too for political oposition.
The important thing is this: can you still deliver lectures to the rest of the world on the Importance of Freedom Of Speech, and the fact that only Yanks have it because Elon can worship Hitler on the Internet?
And the answer is, yes. Yes you can, and always will. So the actual reality isn’t really important. Because all you actually learned from 1984 is that of the government tells you that you have freedom of speech, and also tells you that Eastasia and Eurasia don’t, That’s Good Enough For You and you’re The Free-est People In The World.
Yeah I wonder what the penalty is for doing something legal with something you own.
GrapheneOS - the only OS that i just installed and forget about it. Sure i spend time to tweak things like profiles but thats it.
And I am a distro and rom hopper.
The security model is that good: duress pin, scrambled pin, separate profiles with their own passwords, usb c restriction (you can set it charge only, charge while phone is off (most secure state).
and yet people even here don’t understand why it would be useful even without the hardware security thinhs of the pixel
You can only install Graphene on a Google phone and there’s two big issues with that:
- you are rewarding Google by buying their hardware.
- it doesn’t matter how secure the os claims to be if the hardware is compromised and there is nothing you can do to convince me that a pixel doesn’t have a backdoor into your data at a hardware level. If I was a conspiracy minded type I might say that Graphene is a Trojan Horse.
why are they so concerned about what you OWN
Can’t control people without controlling things. And vice versa.
Imagine being on a de-federated instance like lemmy and crying about how a COP in AMERICA could not harass a person successfully.Go back to meta choom.
…Who tf was complaining? You’re fighting ghosts.
What if you OWNed some child pornography.
What if you owned: weed/drugs, illegal firearms, items which could be used for potential murder, negative opinions about the fascist government?
This argument is shallow to the point where fascism is what you’re advocating here for. So what, if you did own something thats not law abiding - without any credible proof there is nothing there, and non of anybody’s interest.
Surveillance is fascism… it is clear to me that neither do you understand the word nor do you know about the most basic features of it.
Lets go by your logic then, What IF a cop plants contraband or CASM pictures onto your device?
not bro resorting to whataboutism.
Begone Fed
So are you saying you’d be ok with your personal property being searched without a warrant on the suspicion that you might own child porn?
??? classic statistic apologist rhetoric I’m not against holding pedos accountable, I’m against searching a man/woman/non binary’s phone without proving suspicion of OWNing child pornography… please educate yourself
Privacy isn’t keeping everything about your life secret from everybody. Its about having control over who in your life gets to know what. Its the pretext for honest communication. Extreme surveillance will lead to people self-censoring themselves to please the fascist state.
What if I am a law abiding citizen? Should I relinquish my rights against unwarranted search and seizure because of ‘woulda coulda shoulda’?
If your rights can so easily be ignored due to some hypothetical scenario, then you never really had rights to begin with.
I may be about to move to a town near the border, and I fully plan on visiting Mexico as frequently as I can. It’s one of the things I’m most excited about about moving there.
I will 100% be getting a second cheap phone, and only taking that when I cross the border.
