Web services and websites should block all Utah IP addresses and redirect to page explaining that because they cannot tell who’s using a VPN, their only option is to block all of Utah.
Yes, I understand how dumb that is, but sometimes you have to fight stupid with stupider.
Porn sites have been doing that for years now.
And that’s exactly what they want.
They don’t want every website to do it though.
I like the thought, but it won’t work. The big websites won’t be willing to lose money they don’t have to, and like ID laws that give them reasons to extract more data from users anyway.
Its easier to implement and less crazy than blocking VPNs. It also pushes back on other jurisdictions doing the same. I’d be amazed if this isn’t what happens.
They actually want to avoid the liability of storing someone’s id.
The government wants to make these things illegal, but they also want to track every person on the internet through their government ID, so they create the problem (age restriction and id checks) because they have the planned solution: digital id for every computer!
Do you have your computer license? Do you? You think the internet is a psy-op and Big Brother’s watching you? Just wait until a government admin message pops up on your screen because you visited the wrong website.
You’re getting fined for spreading misinformation or receiving a letter for libel due to some offhand tweet about some famous person. Don’t worry about receiving a notice in the mail, if you have a printer they’ll make it print your ticket for you immediately.
You don’t thing an extra 10,000 words in the EULA won’t absolve them of liability for ID theft?
Actually, the existing EULAs probably already do.
Indeed. ID laws are a wet dream of Meta and the like. Both because it gives them the unique ID the always wanted and because it is easier for them to comply than small upstarts.
Your right, but I can imagine what it would be like, and that’s something.
Big websites will only have to do it for a little while though, a month perhaps. If suddenly Utah can’t reach youtube or Netflix… Constituents will complain, the citizens simply won’t have it, and then the legislators have a problem.
I might not underestimate how much big tech companies hate this too. They are pretty famous about despising all regulation of their space. I wouldn’t put it past them to block a backwater like Utah.
They don’t want every website to do it
Are you sure?
Web services and websites should block all Utah IP addresses and redirect to page explaining that because they cannot tell who’s using a VPN, their only option is to block all of Utah.
But VPN users using a VPN outside of Utah will still get through.
What Utah (and likely other dumb states soon) are trying to do is to force age verification worldwide through a state law, forcing websites to verify the age of every user from anywhere, because any user who accesses the site from anywhere in the world might possibly be someone in Utah using a VPN.
I understand.
Which is why I’m suggesting they preemptively block everyone in Utah. Protesting needs to inconvenience people and good protests redirect that anger towards those in power.
“Utah’s new law us makes us legally liable for providing our services to residence in Utah using a VPN. As that is not technically possible, we have no choice but to cease operating in Utah, or allowing Utah residents to use our services.”
But whether or not that particular strategy would be an effective from a protest, is a moot point, as big tech is behind these types of age verification and use identification laws, and those are the only websites and services with a large enough user base to make a difference here.
Which is why I’m suggesting they preemptively block everyone in Utah.
Pornhub and other porn sites already do this.
They would still be liable for transmitting content to a Utah resident using a VPN to appear as though they were in neighboring Arizona.
That just means that people in Utah would need to use a VPN to access those sites.
Which is hilarious, and a predictable result when your legislature is mostly filled with people who could’ve retired decades ago…
Web services and websites should block all Utah IP addresses
That won’t work on a VPN, though. The VPN will say the user is coming from outside the state. That’s the whole point of the VPN.
right, meaning everybody will need to get a VPN, defeating the purpose of the law
Even worse, that would not necessarily help. If someone’s accessing your website through a VPN that’s not located in that state, you would not block it… then become liable.
Better block everything at this point -_-
The great firewall of Utah, all your pron must be inspected by government officials prior to delivery…
It’s actually quite trivial to detect most VPN providers. There’s publicly available IP lists
Many VPN providers regularly rotate their IP ranges.
Regardless, that wouldn’t reveal to a website where the traffic was originating from.
wouldn’t reveal to a website where the traffic is coming from
that’s… exactly the point here. If you’re connecting thru a VPN then the web site is supposed to ID you because you might be circumventing their local ID laws.
I was replying specifically to your comment…
“It’s actually quite trivial to detect most VPN providers. There’s publicly available IP lists…”
None of that has anything with what I’m suggesting, or why I suggested it.
I’ve explained the rationale in other comments, but this is an action of protest, not a technical response or workaround to the law.
If Utah passed the stupid law, you have to inconvenience Utah voters, and to do that, websites should block all Utah IP addresses. Making clear to their users that due to the new regulatory framework, they’re no longer doing business in Utah.
If that upsets people in Utah, they can reach out to their representatives to ask why they voted to ruin the internet in Utah.
you originally said
they cannot tell who’s using a VPN
I was replying to that specific statement only. Lists of IP ranges are updated regularly and publicly available. Web sites hosted in Utah will have to make use of them to ID check visitors to comply.
I agree with you that web sites hosted outside of Utah should just block Utah IP addresses with a “contact your representative” message."
Yes, I understand how dumb that is
i don’t think you do. residents of utah don’t have to use vpn with endpoint in utah, so in order for your “gotcha” to work, they would have to block whole world. since most people will choose endpoint far from them, it would probably be enough to block anything but utah…
That’s the point…
It would be protest against Utah’s dumb law, with an even dumber response, that’s designed specifically to inconvenience people in Utah…
so you would bully the people being bullied by this law to protest the law that bullies them? well that would show them!
Unless you are willing to admit that Utah is a dictatorship, then yes “bullying” the people is very appropriate.
This is an issue with american thinking, the sanctity of normality. You think doing anything that effects the every person is somehow off limits, you think the daily life of the people is unassailable. Its the same nonsense over and over across everything and I think why americans always talk about how “nothing can be done” about any issue that comes up. The us of a is flying off a cliff in multiple ways but americans will put up with it as long as they don’t notice a change in their daily life.
It is why you are all ok with war, right up until the gas price goes up.
It is why you are all ok with losing liberties, right up until it effects you personally.
It is why you are all ok with your media and entertainment pushing usa #1 bullshit that always ends up “back to normal”, right up until you can’t ignore reality.
It is why you are all ok with a clearly broken and non democratic system, right up until nether party is able to guarantee your lifestyle.
It is why you are all ok with draconian “purity” laws being put into place, right up until sites you like to use realize that Utah is not worth the work to be there.
hey doc, here is one who forgot to take their pills!
This is an issue with american thinking
You think doing
it is why you are all ok with
it is why you are all ok with
it is why you are all ok with
it is why you are all ok with
it is why you are all ok with
you do know there are people in the world that are not americans, right?
“bullying” the people is very appropriate.
no, it is not. once you are done with this tantrum, i suggest to talk to a mental health professional and ask them for explanation.
no, it is not. once you are done with this tantrum, i suggest to talk to a mental health professional and ask them for explanation.
Yes, it is. You americans will get to see the results of your madness first hand over the next few years, there is no “tantrum” over it, just the explanation of the consequences you are all facing from thinking you are special.
“Nah bro ya crazy”
“The people being bullied” lol, they are called voters and they voted for the government that does this. Americans can fuck right off with their victim mentality. Go fix your shithole country instead
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I think you’re confused on the concept of protesting.
Or maybe you’re just a fan of this law, or don’t think it’s a big deal.
Either way, I disagree.
Americans not understanding how to protest? Surely not.
yes, it would. their elected officials did this.
“You can’t punish the voters for the things the people they voted for did!”
So you’re saying we should blockade the blockade? /s
No, the better solution is for sites that age verification is pointless to block Utah. If you make a mobil app check the GPS or IP and disabl the app if they are in Utah. People should go on sites like Yelp in mass and put down votes on every establishment in Utah so that ths site becomes useless for anyone in Utah. Pretty much just destroy all tech and internet for all things Utah.
With a button saying “Actually, I’m using a VPN so it looks like I’m in Utah but I’m actually not.” that gives you access
To date, the only countries that have made progress in blocking VPN traffic with some success are authoritarian regimes with ISP-level surveillance.
You know you’re on to something when the only playbook you can find was written by the Chinese government.
The horseshoe theory of mass surveillance
I don’t think it’s has anything to do with a horseshoe when they are just becoming a dictatorship as well. It’s just a line at that point.
Even the Chinese government struggles tracking people using VPN’s, Utah is in for a rude awakening.
I was under the impression that China sorted of allows it so that people travelling for business can still access everything they’re used to
These aren’t “age checks”…it’s identity tracking.
Absolutely! Journalists really need to start describing these as what they are rather than the marketing term. It is much more accurate to call them “ID Checks” or something like that.
Remember when we told people “they’ll make it illegal to use a VPN” and we got snarky replies like “it’s not enforceable LOL”.
The fuck it isn’t. Traffic coming from a VPN? That’s a paddlin’, kiddo.
They’re not even trying to masquerade it as… oh, yes, they’re still trying to masquerade as a “think of the children!” measure. Those fuckers.
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This seems a bit sketchy to me. How am I getting paid for participating when it’s completely free?
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So what legally protects a provider from prison if users view illegal content via my network?
Reminds me of the guy who got his home raided and electronics seized for running a Tor exit node.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/austrian-man-raided-for-operating-tor-exit-node/
Seems risky and a huge legal hassle even if you don’t end up in prison.
Exactly why the for project recommends doing exactly not that.
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The problem for most users is: they actually want to look like traffic from somewhere else…
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it seems very unsafe
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that doesn’t mean it’s safe though
looks sketchy af
agentic browser ew
corporate ew
real trustworthy privacy/security/anonymization/decentralization software is libre, open source, non-corporate, an unpaid not-for-profit free-time project that never makes use of any money, decentralized with no official host, and most importantly made by trans anarchist catgirls who use obscure operating systems
and we got snarky replies like “it’s not enforceable LOL”.
Not being enforceable hasn’t stopped a lot of bad laws from being enacted.
My housing complex has a 10km/hr speed limit, it is completely unenforceable (police aren’t going to put in a speed trap or monitor a road inside a housing complex). Doesn’t stop people getting all upset because they’re sure someone was going 15.
This is like holding a car manufacturer liable when a teenager drives to a liquor store and uses a fake ID.
Or holding the liquor store liable when a person with a real ID drives to the store in a stolen car
More holding the liquor store liable, which is what already happens.
Age verification is a red line. I will not comply
If I were a lawyer arguing against the law in court, my primary argument would be that this violates the interstate commerce section of the US Constitution.
looks at the scotus playbook
yeah that falls in between ‘nuhh uh’ and ‘don’t care’.
only problem is, it’s gonna get upheld 6-3
The pedophile class has the audacity to dictate access to a utility under the guise of protecting the children
But spoofing a phone number and harassing me all day isn’t worth solutioning. This Gov. is not representing us.
The Biden admin was about to regulate data brokers but then Trump happened.
Yet another Biden failure! When will that guy stop causing all our problems?! Thanks Biden! /s
I’ve learned a little bit of multiple languages to answer the phone in a foreign language. It absolutely fucks with the scammer on the other end because they are expecting an English speaker.
I mostly ignore calls from unknown numbers, but if I ever answer any I do something similar, but I use gibberish.
“Hello sir, I’m calling to see if you are aware of the latest energy deals in your area?”
I respond with something like: ‘Ha felth malak nakufi parament, cheeshan bah farkone.’
I then get very animatedly exasperated with them if they can’t understand me.
‘BISHAN TA FALAF TOOSH? MAIR PUNAN TA FALAS!!! EDGEKA, EDGEKA MALA!!!’
I never end the call, always keep going until they do, which is often pretty quickly these days unfortunately, because I’ve started to kind of enjoy playing with them.
Occasionally if it’s clearly a scam call rather than a spam call and I have time, I’ll actually pretend to play along dumbly to see how long I can keep them on the line. All time record is 49 minutes during the pandemic lockdown (I was bored). The guy finally caught on and released a barrage of expletives and wished me death. It was awesome!
If you do anything OTHER than ignore them, your number gets marked as “active” and then sold to other scammers. I roll my eyes at the people who gleefully brag about all the ways they “fuck with spammers” without realizing that by simply answering the phone, they have already given them what they want. Sure, the low level worker on the phone (who might actually be a slave) might want you to fall for a scam and give them money, but the people running these call centers are perfectly fine if all they get is confirmation that you have an active number which can then be sold to other call centers.
Stop answering spam/scam calls.
Get a list of every dumbass politician who voted this through, and access their campaign websites through a VPN from a computer in Utah. Boom.
Self owned.
Politicians will be exempt. That ain’t that stupid.
They didn’t write this law, the lobbyists did.
That is probably true. But the lobbyists have no power to actually make the law. And the politicians to do have the power to sell a law for enough money. But they are not as stupid as many here think. They will somehow be exempt from prosecution.
More ways to control our lives and track our movements.
“Party of small government”.
Personally, I would stop using any site that did this. We all know nothing matters in this country but money. Companies stop making as much, they’ll get legislation changed.
We need debit cards that aren’t tethered to banking institutions which are bound to enforce this shit on their apps/websites.
Also, isn’t legislating against VPN usage just a new way to legislate over the rights of people who don’t live in your state? Because, how is a company going to prove whether you’re in California or Utah using a California based VPN? They won’t care… They’ll just enforce that everyone bides by Utah law, regardless of your origin.
They may have been at one point but they def stopped once Thiel and other big technocrats got involved
I’m so weary of everything getting a little bit worse every day.
I’m sure we all used to be excited about the future of the internet but now it’s just shit.
I used to see technology as our only hope and now I dread the new hells we’re creating.
I’m glad I at least got to enjoy the golden age of the internet before enshittification started to infect everything.
I get the sentiment, and I’m right there with you about the erosion of our rights every day being very exhausting.
The trick is to never stop being mad about things like this, because complacency is how they win.
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I bet you a dollar that all of them are technologically illiterate.
It’s not just that, it’s that they don’t care. People keep assuming it’s solely based on a lack of knowledge but the real point is establishing consequences to prevent the things that can’t fight it from existing to begin.
They’ll decline to go after the websites they as lawmakers use themselves, but will instead hit up independent things that can’t afford to fight back and will just close when contacted.
i mean, how are we defining tech illiteracy? they have heard of the twitter, okay?
I think politicians have special law right to avoid that consequences of their actions.
Citizens also have special action that leds them bypass laws.
It’s called anarchy to some, and full-on revolution to others.
Utah flexing those evil Mormon muscles huh? Well get bent Utah and get fucked Mormons.
You’ve added an extra ‘m’ to a couple words there.
Me: Ormon uscles? Huh? … Oh right 😅
The second m is silent.
😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 I love yall
from now on i will joke-censor mormons as mor*ons
It’s literally going to be easier for websites to just block all Utah IPs and Geolocations.
I’m ok with blocking Utah from the internet. That’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make
But that doesn’t fix this. If someone actually from Utah uses a non-Utah IP to access data in a manner not approved by Utah, they can be held liable. The only way to get around this is, aside from the law being struck down, is for companies out to operate outside the legal reach of the state of Utah, or to act as if everyone in the world lives in Utah. It’s a really bad law.
If companies are blocking Utah they are already showing they have no interest in doing business in Utah so who cares if Utah charges them?
China can charge me because I said “Winnie the Pooh” in a post and a citizen might read it and might think I’m referencing dear leader, doesn’t mean I have to give a fuck or do anything about it.
Like if a company does not operate in the United States at all and they break a law (however poorly written) from any given state, maybe they can choose to not care, but maybe they still have to because of any number of treaties with the United States. Or because of the outsized number of us internet users. Even Italy is causing people headaches with some of their absurd internet censorship laws. It’s just a problem when governments try to pass excessively broad laws about internet services.
