“If you don’t pick a better candidate then I’ll just let the one who wants concentration camps and to erase all of Palestine win”
Like, seriously, look at the big picture. Do you think Kamala who would have still supported Israel would have been worse for Gaza? It’s literally not possible. You guys fucked up the entire planet in your pride.
Now I’m not saying the DNC isn’t wrong, they’re fucking morons. But you guys just gave up on global warming, gay rights, trans rights, Gaza, any sembles of the environment, public health, the entire “justice” system, the courts, your immigrant neighbours, all people of colour in the US, and women’s rights.
I cannot express how much I fucking hate people like you right now.
Go ahead and downvote me. “But it’s not right”. Yeah? We’ll choosing to let this happen is leagues worse. You guaranteed the genecide in Gaza would be the worst it ever could be you fucking morons.
Go out and pressure the DNC to not be shit, but don’t fucking say there’s no difference between Kamala and Trump.
Yes. For sure with Harris things would be much better here and there. Not voting is only makes things worse and we know GOP is very unpopular now the only strategy is to infiltrate Dems and manipulate people to not vote again and elect them again.
Dems are so easily to manipulate this why things are bad. If you don’t vote it’s your fault how things are
But you guys just gave up on global warming, gay rights, trans rights, Gaza, any sembles of the environment, public health, the entire “justice” system, the courts, your immigrant neighbours, all people of colour in the US, and women’s rights.
You forgot to include USAID.
Anyone who keeps clutching to Gaza and says Kamala would have been as bad as Trump can suck my dick.
Go and primary every single DNC candidate that isn’t good enough, get better democratic candidates wherever you can. Put even more energy into primaries than into the election itself!
But when the decision comes down to Churchill or Hitler, you better vote for fucking Churchill.
Everything else is just throwing the minorities and the future under the bus as a cost of doing business.
Except the Armageddon is real but no-one will rise up to save us when every major city is nothing but glowing embers under an ever gray nuclear sky while the remnants of humanity fight each other with sticks over the last grain silos.
So-called American “revolutionaries” make me sick with their reckless disregard for the unavoidable responsibility their country has with regards to their military. An “accelerated downfall” won’t just affect you bozos. Especially not if the means are “stoking the fire of imperialism”.
If I could press a button to accelerate the US downfall and magically contain the fighting to the lower 48 in a way that leaves whoever is left standing nuke-less, I would, but that’s not an option on the table, so barring that, please vote against the guy who really can’t be trusted with the nuclear briefcase, yeah???
Accelerationism is acceptable to people who think they have little to fear from a (hopefully) short spike in terrible things, because they might come out of the other side worse for wear, but they will make it through.
But for everybody who’s part of a vulnerable group it’s throwing them to the wolves, because likely, they will not come out of the other side.
(I want to be clear that I’m not advocating for accelerationism, I’m just seeing holes in the argument)
Pushing people in a vulnerable position now to make change for the future is a great example of the needs of the many ethical arguments. Advocating against change because it hurts me in the short term is inherently selfish.
I know people that are accelerationists, and The ones I know don’t assume that they’ll come out ahead or even the same. They recognize that the system is inherently broken and they think they need more people uncomfortable to make meaningful change.
Wanna know how to pressure the DNC to pick a candidate you like? Go fucking vote for them in the primary!
Typically, the primaries get 1/10th the turnout of the general election. That means that a very small number of people can sway the primary. Go stump for your candidate. Make phone calls, talk to your family and friends and community, explain why your candidate is the better choice.
The lack of a primary in 2024 was fucking awful, but guess what? Chances are, there is a primary going on for your state right now, get to work!
Try telling that to someone who supported Bernie, but before you do that you might want to go back and refresh youself on what happened. The DNC is a diseased carcass, change isn’t possible.
In 2016. 2020 it was fair and he lost. I voted for him but supposedly all his other supporters didn’t. That’s democracy. You don’t count if you don’t show up.
Do you really think the vote results of a corrupt election somehow make that election not corrupt? How are we still having this stupid ass argument in 2026?
I guess Putin really does have 88% support in Russia. That’s what the vote says after all, so it must be true.
No, I’m saying the election itself was corrupted in order to feed the victory to Hillary. Superdelegates, DNC-run smear campaigns, election rigging by limiting debates to reduce the visibility of the outsider. Accusations of sexism simply for not supporting the candidate with a vagina.
Manipulating votes is not the only way to rig an election, you can do a lot just by manipulating the voters themselves. The DNC admitted to this, they didn’t have to run a fair election. So stop pretending the end result of a blatantly corrupt process justifies the process.
Alright, you pretty much posted the same argument I was expecting from the other two, but just taking a little detour through the possibility that you thought the votes were altered.
Before I consider this complaint, I need you to go back, and get the primary results from the 2016 DNC primary and post them here.
I need to know that you know before we can discuss further.
No, you infantilizing asshole. The fact that you’re still pushing this stupid game means you clearly don’t intend to argue in good faith. The fact that even after making me explain a very simple and straightforward statement you still think the vote results are relevant to a discussion about the corruption of the 2016 primaries means you’re just yet another liberal apologetic. If you’re unwilling to grapple with the fact that the DNC is a corrupt organization, we’re done here.
To the people “wanting to teach the DNC a lesson”, in the nicest way possible, you’re fucking idiots.
They threw literally ever other minority group under the bus, and got absolutely nothing for it - if anything they actually got less than nothing, because Trump wasn’t just going soft on Israel, he was actively cheering them on!
I will never understand the mentality of choosing that hill to die on… Like couldn’t you guys have waited until Trump was at least off the board first.
Man was literally on his way to a lifetime in jail and bankruptcy, that he got out of scot-free because you guys decided 2024 was the time for a protest vote.
Some people get far too easily caught up in the issue of the day and lose sight of the bigger picture, and by the time they see the consequences of that it’s far too late.
Like I was saying with the whole Israel thing. People got so worked up in refusing every DNC candidate who wasn’t anti-Israel, that they seemingly entirely forgot about everything else on the board.
Was losing all that really all worth fighting up a losing battle over Israel?..
Which arguably had an even worse outcome than it would’ve, entirely because of their fighting over it let the genocidal dictator wannbe win?
Its ironically not too disimilar to how the far right screws over their voterbase…
Get them riled up over some racist bigoted stance, then stab them in the back and tell them it was somebody else’s fault while still holding the knife.
That might be, but it’s hard to believe many people would not see the result coming ahead of time. It’s just not a believable concept to me that these folks really believed that anything could happen besides trump being more likely to win. The most generous I can be with them is that they didn’t care what would happen.
This continues to be the stupidest, least productive way to think about elections. The lesser of two evils argument may be true, but it failed to motivate people to vote for Kamala in 2024 (or Hillary in 2016, for that matter). You can bitch about protest votes or an apathetic electorate all you want, but at the end of the day, you don’t win elections if you don’t get votes, and, “yEaH, bUt TrUmP iS wOrSe,” didn’t get votes. If the Democrats once again run a candidate who doesn’t reflect their base and once again lose the election, it will once again be their fault for repeating a losing strategy that produces losing candidates.
But you can bet when they lose they’ll blame everyone else in the room but themselves. I don’t think the neo-liberals of the party realize how much bad blood they’ve been generating.
It’s getting hard to tell if they even want to win. Even a year ago it might be plausible to argue that centrism is a smart strategy, but at this point, with victories like Mamdani and Mejia, it’s just demonstrably wrong. Hell, Platner is still leading Mills in Maine even after the whole, “having a Nazi tattoo,” thing. If the Democrats are still pursuing centrism going into 2028, then they have to admit they would prefer losing to fascists than adding progressives to their tent.
They know, thats why every discussion revolving politics to the left of the republicans devolves into “what the fuck you gonna do, vote republican?”
Abuser mentality. Hostage politics. No democracy to be had here. All this could be ended in every blue state controlled by the democrats by passing electoral reform. By replacing First-past-the-post voting and doing away with the spoiler effect that keeps 3rd parties from having equal access to our elections.
But the democrats are uninterested in democracy. They want safe states and elections versus evil cartoon characters. And they will have them, no matter the cost to the United States of America.
Its much harder to campaign against a group of people who all have much more then just a concept of a plan. Capitalists hate competition.
The US election system is stupid, antiquated and corrupt. As long as it isn’t reformed (of which it itself prevents ever happening), the lesser evil is all you will ever get from that system.
How about you go out and draw the rest of the owl there? The main power we have is our right to vote, and you’re saying we shouldn’t use that to pressure the DNC to put forth a pro-worker anti-war candidate.
And how is not voting for them going to do that? They’re fine with you not voting for them, and even losing in the case of DNC leadership. Always have been.
You want to put pressure on them? Be the candidate to primary the party line candidate in Democratic primaries. Yes they will use every structural advantage they have against you. But if enough people do it constantly. The cracks will widen and show. Otherwise they’re happy to receive donations and funding from the wealthy, even if they don’t win.
To be clear, I think all national parties should be outlawed. Generally state wide ones as well. But unless you can change the political reality we are in. The only possibility is not just holding off the worst possible candidates such as trump. Though more should have shown solidarity against him. But being the candidates we want to vote for. And not letting some uninterested complacent national organization make those decision for us.
Not voting for them has done just that! We’ve seen real change at the DNC, and that is only because the neoliberals have been completely discredited. They can no longer claim the narrative of being the adult in the room, the logical choice for electability.
Party power structures only change after the party loses.
I’m a leftist who absolutely voted Harris, because the other option was horrific. I was not in love with Kamala but I did feel that she was a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar better option. But I will not lie, I know several people who were basically exactly like the people you are talking about. It’s disheartening.
Also you guys are fucking idiots.
“If you don’t pick a better candidate then I’ll just let the one who wants concentration camps and to erase all of Palestine win”
Like, seriously, look at the big picture. Do you think Kamala who would have still supported Israel would have been worse for Gaza? It’s literally not possible. You guys fucked up the entire planet in your pride.
Now I’m not saying the DNC isn’t wrong, they’re fucking morons. But you guys just gave up on global warming, gay rights, trans rights, Gaza, any sembles of the environment, public health, the entire “justice” system, the courts, your immigrant neighbours, all people of colour in the US, and women’s rights.
I cannot express how much I fucking hate people like you right now.
Go ahead and downvote me. “But it’s not right”. Yeah? We’ll choosing to let this happen is leagues worse. You guaranteed the genecide in Gaza would be the worst it ever could be you fucking morons.
Go out and pressure the DNC to not be shit, but don’t fucking say there’s no difference between Kamala and Trump.
“fuck democracy! You are required to vote how I want you to vote! You don’t have a choice!” /s
Yes. For sure with Harris things would be much better here and there. Not voting is only makes things worse and we know GOP is very unpopular now the only strategy is to infiltrate Dems and manipulate people to not vote again and elect them again.
Dems are so easily to manipulate this why things are bad. If you don’t vote it’s your fault how things are
Hi. I’m not voting for your sorry ass candidates. Cry all you want.
People don’t like being insulted and taken advantage of. Why is that so hard to understand?
So your feelings are more important than the oppression of all the minoritzed groups?
You have piss poor reading comprehension. I suggest you enroll in an adult learning class at your local community college.
You forgot to include USAID.
Anyone who keeps clutching to Gaza and says Kamala would have been as bad as Trump can suck my dick.
I forgot a ton of things.
AI, your data privacy, your parents retirement, NATO, electric cars, green energy, antitrust, the chip shortage.
There’s a huge list.
Yup
It’s fucking mind numbing
Yes! Primaries primaries primaries.
Go and primary every single DNC candidate that isn’t good enough, get better democratic candidates wherever you can. Put even more energy into primaries than into the election itself! But when the decision comes down to Churchill or Hitler, you better vote for fucking Churchill.
Everything else is just throwing the minorities and the future under the bus as a cost of doing business.
https://sourcenews.scot/analysis-5-of-the-worst-crimes-of-winston-churchill/
Churchill is probably viewed as worse than Hitler in parts of the world for good reason.
I think a lot of the argument against voting for lesser evil is the acceleration aspect. It’s advocating for a quicker fall of the American empire
Accelerationism is a great idea.
I don’t care how many people die now, because it will bring a glorious time in the future.
Accelerationism is Christianity with Lenin replacing Jesus
Except the Armageddon is real but no-one will rise up to save us when every major city is nothing but glowing embers under an ever gray nuclear sky while the remnants of humanity fight each other with sticks over the last grain silos.
So-called American “revolutionaries” make me sick with their reckless disregard for the unavoidable responsibility their country has with regards to their military. An “accelerated downfall” won’t just affect you bozos. Especially not if the means are “stoking the fire of imperialism”.
If I could press a button to accelerate the US downfall and magically contain the fighting to the lower 48 in a way that leaves whoever is left standing nuke-less, I would, but that’s not an option on the table, so barring that, please vote against the guy who really can’t be trusted with the nuclear briefcase, yeah???
Accelerationism is acceptable to people who think they have little to fear from a (hopefully) short spike in terrible things, because they might come out of the other side worse for wear, but they will make it through.
But for everybody who’s part of a vulnerable group it’s throwing them to the wolves, because likely, they will not come out of the other side.
(I want to be clear that I’m not advocating for accelerationism, I’m just seeing holes in the argument) Pushing people in a vulnerable position now to make change for the future is a great example of the needs of the many ethical arguments. Advocating against change because it hurts me in the short term is inherently selfish. I know people that are accelerationists, and The ones I know don’t assume that they’ll come out ahead or even the same. They recognize that the system is inherently broken and they think they need more people uncomfortable to make meaningful change.
Wanna know how to pressure the DNC to pick a candidate you like? Go fucking vote for them in the primary!
Typically, the primaries get 1/10th the turnout of the general election. That means that a very small number of people can sway the primary. Go stump for your candidate. Make phone calls, talk to your family and friends and community, explain why your candidate is the better choice.
The lack of a primary in 2024 was fucking awful, but guess what? Chances are, there is a primary going on for your state right now, get to work!
Try telling that to someone who supported Bernie, but before you do that you might want to go back and refresh youself on what happened. The DNC is a diseased carcass, change isn’t possible.
In 2016. 2020 it was fair and he lost. I voted for him but supposedly all his other supporters didn’t. That’s democracy. You don’t count if you don’t show up.
Before I consider this complaint, I need you to go back, and get the primary results from the 2016 DNC primary and post them here.
I know what the results are, but I need to know that you know before we discuss further.
Do you really think the vote results of a corrupt election somehow make that election not corrupt? How are we still having this stupid ass argument in 2026?
I guess Putin really does have 88% support in Russia. That’s what the vote says after all, so it must be true.
Are you saying that Bernie got more votes in the primary than Hillary, and the DNC manipulated the votes to make Hillary win?
No, I’m saying the election itself was corrupted in order to feed the victory to Hillary. Superdelegates, DNC-run smear campaigns, election rigging by limiting debates to reduce the visibility of the outsider. Accusations of sexism simply for not supporting the candidate with a vagina.
Manipulating votes is not the only way to rig an election, you can do a lot just by manipulating the voters themselves. The DNC admitted to this, they didn’t have to run a fair election. So stop pretending the end result of a blatantly corrupt process justifies the process.
Alright, you pretty much posted the same argument I was expecting from the other two, but just taking a little detour through the possibility that you thought the votes were altered.
I need to know that you know before we can discuss further.
No, you infantilizing asshole. The fact that you’re still pushing this stupid game means you clearly don’t intend to argue in good faith. The fact that even after making me explain a very simple and straightforward statement you still think the vote results are relevant to a discussion about the corruption of the 2016 primaries means you’re just yet another liberal apologetic. If you’re unwilling to grapple with the fact that the DNC is a corrupt organization, we’re done here.
He lost? Yeah, fuck primaries forever!
did bernie lose because people didn’t vote for him? or did he lose because the democrats establishment push him out?
for what you said to be true, the democrats need to abolish the superdelegates, which they won’t do.
Same thing applies to you.
Yeah…
To the people “wanting to teach the DNC a lesson”, in the nicest way possible, you’re fucking idiots.
They threw literally ever other minority group under the bus, and got absolutely nothing for it - if anything they actually got less than nothing, because Trump wasn’t just going soft on Israel, he was actively cheering them on!
I will never understand the mentality of choosing that hill to die on… Like couldn’t you guys have waited until Trump was at least off the board first.
Man was literally on his way to a lifetime in jail and bankruptcy, that he got out of scot-free because you guys decided 2024 was the time for a protest vote.
We had the chance to get rid of Trump forever and the tankies blew it
Wasn’t the chance to get rid of trump immediately after January 6th? Are you calling Biden a tanky?
I think it only makes sense if they’re lying about their beliefs and wanted trump to win.
I think for some of them it’s an unwillingness to admit/accept the consequences for their actions.
Theyre not unlike maga voters in that regard and they don’t want to hear it.
When you wrap up your political decisions in your identity it is CRUSHING to admit you’ve been wrong.
I imagine they feel so pure not voting or voting third party or whatever and then the reality of that comes crashing in about February 1 or so.
I could forgive that if they at least don’t make the same mistake twice.
Edit- witness the downvotes for saying this. Just confirmation I suppose.
Honestly I agree with this take more than @TrickDacy@lemmy.world.
Some people get far too easily caught up in the issue of the day and lose sight of the bigger picture, and by the time they see the consequences of that it’s far too late.
Like I was saying with the whole Israel thing. People got so worked up in refusing every DNC candidate who wasn’t anti-Israel, that they seemingly entirely forgot about everything else on the board.
Ukraine? LGBTQ rights? Women’s rights? Ethnic Minority rights? Climate Change reforms? Apparently the US’ whole democratic system?
Was losing all that really all worth fighting up a losing battle over Israel?.. Which arguably had an even worse outcome than it would’ve, entirely because of their fighting over it let the genocidal dictator wannbe win?
Its ironically not too disimilar to how the far right screws over their voterbase…
Get them riled up over some racist bigoted stance, then stab them in the back and tell them it was somebody else’s fault while still holding the knife.
That might be, but it’s hard to believe many people would not see the result coming ahead of time. It’s just not a believable concept to me that these folks really believed that anything could happen besides trump being more likely to win. The most generous I can be with them is that they didn’t care what would happen.
This continues to be the stupidest, least productive way to think about elections. The lesser of two evils argument may be true, but it failed to motivate people to vote for Kamala in 2024 (or Hillary in 2016, for that matter). You can bitch about protest votes or an apathetic electorate all you want, but at the end of the day, you don’t win elections if you don’t get votes, and, “yEaH, bUt TrUmP iS wOrSe,” didn’t get votes. If the Democrats once again run a candidate who doesn’t reflect their base and once again lose the election, it will once again be their fault for repeating a losing strategy that produces losing candidates.
But you can bet when they lose they’ll blame everyone else in the room but themselves. I don’t think the neo-liberals of the party realize how much bad blood they’ve been generating.
It’s getting hard to tell if they even want to win. Even a year ago it might be plausible to argue that centrism is a smart strategy, but at this point, with victories like Mamdani and Mejia, it’s just demonstrably wrong. Hell, Platner is still leading Mills in Maine even after the whole, “having a Nazi tattoo,” thing. If the Democrats are still pursuing centrism going into 2028, then they have to admit they would prefer losing to fascists than adding progressives to their tent.
They know, thats why every discussion revolving politics to the left of the republicans devolves into “what the fuck you gonna do, vote republican?”
Abuser mentality. Hostage politics. No democracy to be had here. All this could be ended in every blue state controlled by the democrats by passing electoral reform. By replacing First-past-the-post voting and doing away with the spoiler effect that keeps 3rd parties from having equal access to our elections.
But the democrats are uninterested in democracy. They want safe states and elections versus evil cartoon characters. And they will have them, no matter the cost to the United States of America.
Its much harder to campaign against a group of people who all have much more then just a concept of a plan. Capitalists hate competition.
The US election system is stupid, antiquated and corrupt. As long as it isn’t reformed (of which it itself prevents ever happening), the lesser evil is all you will ever get from that system.
How about you go out and draw the rest of the owl there? The main power we have is our right to vote, and you’re saying we shouldn’t use that to pressure the DNC to put forth a pro-worker anti-war candidate.
And how is not voting for them going to do that? They’re fine with you not voting for them, and even losing in the case of DNC leadership. Always have been.
You want to put pressure on them? Be the candidate to primary the party line candidate in Democratic primaries. Yes they will use every structural advantage they have against you. But if enough people do it constantly. The cracks will widen and show. Otherwise they’re happy to receive donations and funding from the wealthy, even if they don’t win.
To be clear, I think all national parties should be outlawed. Generally state wide ones as well. But unless you can change the political reality we are in. The only possibility is not just holding off the worst possible candidates such as trump. Though more should have shown solidarity against him. But being the candidates we want to vote for. And not letting some uninterested complacent national organization make those decision for us.
Not voting for them has done just that! We’ve seen real change at the DNC, and that is only because the neoliberals have been completely discredited. They can no longer claim the narrative of being the adult in the room, the logical choice for electability.
Party power structures only change after the party loses.
I’m a leftist who absolutely voted Harris, because the other option was horrific. I was not in love with Kamala but I did feel that she was a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar better option. But I will not lie, I know several people who were basically exactly like the people you are talking about. It’s disheartening.
Please shut the fuck up.
Youre spreading the propaganda that helped them justify their actions.
Oh ok my bad. I’ll stfu now.
I CaNT bElIevE PeOpLE wOuLD dO ThiS!!!
Meanwhile, you’re pulling provably false both sides bullshit. What a tool you must be.
All they can do is harp on this strawman because deep down they’re ashamed.
You’re right. Liberals do love their straw men.
Like a literal child.
I’m just pissed off we let America have so much power over the world as it is. They’re one country, for fuck sake, not the World Police.
Silver lining: Trump just killed that role like a newborn baby in lake Michigan.