should start preparing now
The time to prepare was when the Democrats were in power. It’s now too late. MAGA in 2019 could not have telegraphed their moves harder. The plan was always to massively bolster ICE and commence rapid, racist deportations and death camps. And not only did Biden and democrats fail to prepare for this (dismantling ICE, jailing MAGA, chickenshit prodecutor Garland, etc…), but they carried out the biggest federal law enforcement blunders in US history.
On top of this, Biden expanded ICE during his time in office, and literally built the camps that Tump is now utilizing.
It’s just downright pitiful to see a headline saying that “now is the time to act”, as if the people we’re begging to act didnt just spend the last 4 years collaborating with fascists.
Well… now IS the time to act.
Lots of missed opportunity in the past to act. We can’t change that now, we can only try to do better going forward.
I feel focusing the narrative on how we got into this emergency situation to cast blame on past non-action does little to affect any future change and demotivates others from trying.
Can we focus on what we are going to do instead of pointing fingers?
I know it feels good to cast blame, to get our anger out, and gives us the feeling we are doing something. It also weighs us down, directs our focus to the past when we need to be here now focused on what options are still available to us. We can analyze how we got here and what we should have done later.
Now is all we have left.
As an outside observer, the most painful part is the usa’s really weird two team political system and how the people still put any trust into the dems at all. Watching and reading over and over about how things that are happening are “warnings” of the other things that have clearly already happened really puts history into perspective.
The us is now at the point that supporting ether party or even the nation itself would be seen as “crazy” or “misinformed” if reading it in a history book (or wiki article, etc.). The time for happy involvement in the political system to enact change was so long ago it gives me a sense of discordance reading about the actions of the american people vs the actions of their government.
Please, focus on what you can do. But also please, try and be pragmatic and not just put the future of your nation on the party that has clearly shown they are incapable of any action.
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Its the two party system that allows things like APAC to function. If you could toss aside a party you would have done so as soon as this sort of crap popped up, but you can’t so both parties just get worse and worse and worse.
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It’s too late to avoid damage, but not too late to avoid total destruction.
I wish Lemmy had fewer doomers. I get it - horrible things are happening. Failures are taking place all over the country, and heart wrenching acts are being committed
It’s bad.
This said, things can get much, much worse. People and systems are still fighting, and both are sometimes winning. These are small battles in a larger war, but we shouldn’t discount the bravery and sacrifice that is actually getting results, however small many may be.
So no, it’s not too late to save the USA. But yes, the USA is actively failing, being divided, and breaking under the stress of the cruelty and apathy of countless millions of awful people, chief amongst them those that are currently in charge (the GOP led by Trump).
But that’s the thing… Apathy is an ingredient. Doomerism creates apathy. Fight this just as hard as you fight Trump, everyone. It’s his tool, so stop giving him strength.
Was the expansion of ICE under Biden connected to the centrist delusion that if democrats take these kinds of actions they will bring people from the far right to the left?
The last dude ran on not being Trump, but gave him a faster car after he crashed the last one with his drinking buddies.
Instead of pushing for harder limits to stop him, he just acted like his hands were tied, he had to fund the Neo-Nazi Police Department, he had to build more of the border wall that Trump wanted, he had to keep Trump’s tax cuts for the rich to afford more propaganda.
Cmon bro don’t start with some “it’s too late” doomer bs. We should’ve been preparing in 2016, we should’ve prepared when Bush got elected, we should’ve prepared when prisons began to expand, when they passed the Civil Rights Act and it wasn’t nearly enough, when women couldn’t vote, etc, etc.
Obviously we can’t go back and change that, but we can take back what was stolen. We have the power now to affect the present as a reflection of the future. Like god damn the thing you should never let them take away is hope.
the thing you should never let them take away is hope
“We have to let go of our relentless positivism, our absurd mania for hope, our naive belief that with grit and determination we can solve all problems. We have to face the bleakness before us. We live in a world already heavily damaged by global warming, which will inevitably get worse. Refusal to participate in the further destruction of the planet means a rupture with traditional politics. It means noncooperation with authority. It means defying in every nonviolent way possible consumer capitalism, militarism and imperialism. It means adjusting our lifestyle, including becoming vegans, to thwart the forces bent upon our annihilation. And it means waves of sustained civil disobedience until the machine is broken.”
Chris Hedges
The hope to reclaim American “democracy” via electoral means plays into the hands of the fascists. At this point, it should be crystal clear that neither the democrats, nor electoralism, nor a blind faith in some abstract concept of “hope” will save us. Nothing will meaningfully change until the rich and powerful fear for their lives. This includes the democrat pundits who many incorrectly see as our only means of escaping the fascist backside. Everyone should be getting armed and organized.
I don’t think you understand what hope is. The Hedges quote reads like an oxymoron “there is no such thing as hope and determination / here are a bunch of solutions that rely on hope and determination.”
Like you obviously want things to change, and you just listed how to change things, yet you aren’t hopeful in them? Like do you think all the solutions you’re talking about will never work? Hope isn’t an abstract concept. To hope doesn’t mean you think “man I wish things were better, but I guess they’ll never change.” Hope is the driving force behind change. If you weren’t hopeful, you wouldn’t be calling for arms against fascism.
Oh, I have plenty of hope for socialism. What I dont have hope for is the democrats or America. And at this point, it’s downright painful to see posts like this specific OP that are still placing their bets on the democrats.
Yeah I get what you’re saying. I think that on the one hand the Democratic Party is awful. On the other hand, the democrats are by far the largest political party that has the capacity to fight the current administration. Zohran is running as a democrat, but he is starkly different than status quo democrats. I think a democratic party filled with socialist thinkers is going to be more successful (and palatable to the average citizen) than a relatively obscure socialist 3rd party. I also think that a socialist 3rd party would be ideal, but given the current timeframe it’s not going to work until it’s a critical mass w/in democrats.
democrats are by far the largest political party that has the capacity to fight the current administration
I think a democratic party filled with socialist thinkers is going to be more successful
And there’s the blind hope. It’s faith, essentially. I dont think youre picking up what I’m putting down. You’re suggesting we put our effort into a party that just cemented our fascist descent - as if you haven’t been trying that for the entirety of the last couple decades.
Dawg you seriously need to chill out. Why are you being all “gotcha, there’s that blind hope you stupid idiot.” I don’t think hope = faith. Hope can physically manifest, hope is a force. I am placing hope in the party that half of voters vote for because it is a popular party. Political parties have the capacity to change, they aren’t stagnant. A couple hundred years ago democrats were fighting for chattel slavery and republicans were seen as liberal comparatively.
I don’t like the Democratic Party, I don’t like most of its elected officials, most of its policy, but I refuse to give it up and let it become completely fascist. Because if that happens, then almost every single voter is supporting fascism.
I wish it was different (and I think it can change further down the line) but third parties don’t work in America. We need to be working to fix what we currently have.
May as well off yourself or go into the streets and start shooting if that is your mentality and you think it’s too late to do anything.
The same party that didn’t arrest Trump even when it was an open and shut case of treason?
The same party that kept ICE funded?
The same one that called out Dubya’s surveillance program after they voted for it, and then tried to arrest Snowden?
The same party that allows border cages for ICE?
The same party that loudly said “we don’t need to defund the police, we need to fund the police!” in a state of the union adresss to bipartisan applause?
I’ll hope that the midterms and next nominee change these lack of action polices, but it seems like the suspected frontrunners are going to aim for the status quo of 2020, not pushing for a better 2028.
Yeah which is why I am actually torn. I’m not sure whether voting Democrat is actually beneficial at this point. The fastest way to defeat Republicans may not actually involve the Democratic Party at all. It may simply be something that requires a few election cycles. People don’t like to admit something so painful, but that may be the truth.
In retrospect, we would have been a lot better off if Hillary lost 60-40 in 2016 instead of just barely losing. This has allowed the DNC to pretend they can still field viable presidential candidates. In truth, voting for a Democrat right now is as futile as voting for the green party. Neither are going to win.
The Dems couldn’t even get on board with local PDs being held accountable for extra judicial killings in 2020.
They called the protests riots and the protesters looters.
that’s why they’ll only talk and posture with ice.
because if they go after ICE for abuse violations or fight against their qualified immunity, then it’ll set a precedent against their police.
It horrified me how in sync the Republicans and Democrats were in 2020 when it came to stomping down the last vestiges of the Civil Rights Movement
They aren’t on the same side, they just share corporate donors
Is there a meaningful difference?
only in their branding.
Can you define “the Dems” in this context? I thought a lot of Democrats were on board with that, and some of it did happen. There were police departments defunded. The murderer of George Floyd went to prison because of all the noise made about that brutality.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-fund-the-police-biden-says-at-state-of-the-union
“We should all agree the answer is not to defund the police is to fund the police,” he said. “Fund them. Fund them. Fund them with resources and training. Resources and training, they need to protect their community. I ask Democrats and Republicans alike to pass my budget and keep our neighborhoods safe.”
And then it was bipartisan applause from the Neo-Nazi Party known as Republicans and Democrats. https://youtu.be/IsiNDuPAfJg
To a nation currently protesting police brutality, he said shut up and keep increasing the funding of the the militarized police who are killing people via extrajudicial means.
Some equals all. Because thinking in binary terms is the only way.
So do you think Biden was talking about funding only the good cops that evict working families for missing rent or the bad cops who shoot minorities?
You haven’t answered my question.
Which police departments were defunded?
It doesn’t need to exist at all…
Wild that the author doesn’t know that, I’m not sure if they’re just ignorant or controlled opposition.
It’s getting really hard to tell these days who’s being intentionally ignorant, or who’s just pretending
I consider the US to be suffering a mental illness epidemic… ever since 9/11, really. The fervent nationalism and propaganda displayed back then was insane, and it’s only gotten worse.
All of US conservatisms mental-illnesses are self evident, but the “liberals” are also so brainwashed and propagandized that they’re still holding out for future elections while the dictatorship is installed before their very eyes, their only hope for leadership is 1% career politicians and billionaires, and it is well beyond the stage for wide scale general strikes, and preparation of armed insurgency and secession.
ever since 9/11, really. The fervent nationalism and propaganda displayed back then was insane, and it’s only gotten worse.
9/11/02 I got sent home from school because I worse a shirt that said “bad cop, no doughnut”…
Even tho no one could explain to me what it had to do with 9/11, me saying I forgot it was 9/11 didn’t help either.
they’re still holding out for future elections
I’m not saying don’t have a plan b, just that there’s no reason to pre-emptively give up on plan a…
Especially since we finally got a non biased DNC chair. I think you’re upset they’re not overtly progressive, but that is short sighted. If we try to keep the DNC corrupt, but to our advantage long term nothing gets fixed.
It’s like LOTR and deciding Gollum had the best plan. We gotta throw that shit in the volcano or it will corrupt us too. We can’t use something as corrupt as the One Ring for good, that’s why Gandalf didn’t just put it on and 1v1 Sauron, because he’d win and in the process become even worse than Sauron.
For the past 8 months the DNC is being weakened, it’s taking all the money Biden/Kamala had hoarded, and distributing back to state parties. Which is good, we don’t want the Dem party structured with that much consolidated power. Because we can lose it. We want a bottom-top structured party.
But ignorant people think nothing is being done and still rant and rave against the DNC when we just won a 30+ year war over how it should be structured…
Billionaires just ain’t going to let the media companies they own tell the masses the billionaires lost.
LOL, we are in a straight up fascist state now. the only way you getting rid of these people is with bigger scarier people.
The government collapsing so ICE doesn’t get paid will work, too.
Except they’re still getting paid. They’re apparently “essential”, but food stamps and air traffic control aren’t.
Yeah, it hasn’t collapsed yet.
ICEamerica is out of control and beyond repair - Thisagencynation needs to be stripped down to the studs.DemsThe world should start preparing now.That seems better.
How did we stop the SS?
Oh, right, armed intervention from other countries.
Please help.
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It needs to be abolished and every person who has ever been employed there tried for their civil rights violations.
And tried for treason and only one sentence given.
Don’t stop at the studs, ABOLISH ICE
I’m old enough to remember when the term ‘homeland security’ was too fashy-sounding to be taken seriously. We were fine without ICE, and weirdly enough, creating it hasn’t solved anything- if anything, the lies they tell to justify doing it more and harder have gotten more and more absurd.
Liquidate it and every other shithole agency under homeland security, with the sole exception of the Coast Guard who really should be their own thing. If the job still needs doing a new organization can be built up and old elements retained and retrained if need be.
Counterpoint to all of this:
Something I’ve noticed recently in the news is that ICE makes the headlines, and then when you dig down to the details, the real problem is often CBP or some other department that’s along for the ride. Difficult to tell, I’m sure, when everyone is masked and not wearing clear identification.
Just saying that abolishing ICE wouldn’t necessarily get rid of the problem, and I suspect that there’s still a chunk of ICE you never see because they’re actually doing the work they’re traditionally supposed to be doing.
The entire system needs to be fixed, not just abolishing one department that’s been co-opted as the poster boy for the abuse of the system.
you’re right, it’s systemic and deeply rooted. But we also need to start somewhere, and ICE is a great start to dismantling systemic oppression
It’s always capitalism
https://bsky.app/profile/shannonhale.bsky.social/post/3m4eif45k3c2n
I entered SLC airport and heard screams and cries for help. I could see people gathered around, watching. I sped over to discover this woman face down on the floor, four grown men pushing her down, while she cried “HELP ME” and pled for her child.
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Why do you think the Confederates funded them like they have?
Paying any moron who want to live out thier best dream life of racism and irrefutable power trips.
