• Clairvoidance@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    8 months ago

    Violence isn’t the answer!

    The answer is… checks history book

    wait not that one… starts flipping pages

    uhh if you hang on a second uhh furious page-flipping

      • Psythik@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        This is why you use your phone’s built-in blue light filter, rather than a 3rd party app that just slaps an ugly red hue over your entire screen.

        Built-in filters don’t show up in screenshots, and more importantly, don’t filter pure black, so your OLED screen still looks good with it enabled.

          • Psythik@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Last time I saw a phone without built-in blue light filtering was literally a decade ago. It’s been a feature in Android since Nougat (7.0)

    • TotallynotJessica@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPM
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      8 months ago

      Yes, because it’s long been true and people didn’t fucking listen. Now my country doesn’t even really have liberal democracy, and people are still himing and hawing about disruption being bad and lawbreaking being bad

  • rumschlumpel@feddit.org
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    8 months ago

    Are USians not still working 10 hours day/6 days a week? The USA are usually near the top of the “time worked per week” OECD rankings.

    Also, interesting how the poster and first replier have the same avatar. Is that a historical figure?

    • TotallynotJessica@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPM
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      8 months ago

      The desperation and work culture of believing we can just slave away into success are what keeps people from rocking the boat. Faith in being able to win the game is how we got here.

    • merc@sh.itjust.works
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      8 months ago

      Yes, Americans are not still working 10 hours a day, 6 days a week. (But phrasing things backwards that way is confusing!)

      40 hours a week is typical for normal, salaried jobs. But, because union membership is extremely low, some people are pressured into working a lot more than that. Also, some people have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet. But, I don’t think 6 days a week is at all normal, nor is 10 hours a day.

      It’s actually the USA that is to thank for the normal work day being only 8 hours. In post-civil-war USA 6 days a week, 10 hours a day was the norm. But, workers in Chicago went on strike on May 1st, demanding an 8 hour day. Their argument was “Eight Hours for work. Eight hours for rest. Eight hours for what we will.” They didn’t get what they were demanding. Instead the strikers were met by police and Pinkerton violence. Some anarchists in the crowd responded to that police violence by throwing bombs (at least, allegedly). The police responded to the bombs by shooting the crowd. They then rounded up the suspected leaders of the anarchist movement and after incredibly brief show-trials, they hanged them.

      It was actually the backlash against the hangings that energized the unions and communists around the world, and although it took years to actually achieve the 8 hour day they demanded. The rest of the world also celebrates a worker day on May 1st as a result of this event. But, of course, in the US, “May Day” is seen as being too close to “communism” so Labor Day is in September instead.

      It took decades more to reduce the work week from 6 days to 5. Again this was the result of union pressure.

      American workers have lots immense amounts of power since the 1880s. Even if those striking workers were beaten by Pinkertons, they were at least able to organize a general strike.

    • Godric@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      How are you referencing the OECD and claiming 60 hour weeks in the same paragraph? If you actually checked the OECD that you reference, you know hours worked is wayyyyyy lower.

      • rumschlumpel@feddit.org
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        8 months ago

        I generally assume that the OECD statistics are underreporting overtime and moonlighting/illicit work wouldn’t be included in these statistics anyway, though the latter is probably a bigger issue in poorer countries. Also, it doesn’t make a difference between part time work and fulltime work, which greatly diminishes how useful it is for gauging how much a fulltime employee works.

        • Godric@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          So you’re just adding on an extra 25 hours a week to the actual average number based off vibes?

          C’mon man :(

  • buttnugget@lemmy.worldBannedBanned from community
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    8 months ago

    I think it’s worth pointing out that calling these riots isn’t really appropriate. When we think of riots, we think of unfocused, unplanned, unmanaged, etc. Highly organized protests sometimes wind up turning into riots because capitalists use violence, but it’s not the norm.

    • FlyingCircus@lemmy.worldBanned from community
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      8 months ago

      Labor movements in the 19 th and early 20th centuries also literally organized riots, where the express purpose was to destroy property. It used to be a legitimate protest strategy against the owning class.

  • Commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    8 months ago

    Funnily enough there’s a very similar situation to the US that’s going on in Serbia, where a canopy falling and killing a bunch of people due to government cheapening out led to lots of outrage and exploded into a massive student movement against the president due to corruption, election rigging, suppression of dissent and executive branch abuse.

    At first, they did peaceful protests, blocked roads and all that jazz constantly, but after seeing that it had led them literally nowhere (they got nothing except for a fake concession that was some minister resigning) except on getting arrested and beaten up in jails, they decided to give a green light to civil disobedience, violence, trashing ruling party’s headquarters all over the country.

    What did this escalation result in? A whole load of nothing except cracked skulls, mostly for the students.

    If you’re looking at reformism ‘fixing’ things during the course of history, civil disobedience the vast majority if not all of the time was noise. What eventually got implemented or changed wasn’t because the ruling class got scared, but because they were either getting major gains in terms of compromise as a result of the reform, or the reform itself was beneficial to their interests and only a small minority didn’t want them to pass.

    • drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      8 months ago

      If you’re looking at reformism ‘fixing’ things during the course of history, civil disobedience the vast majority if not all of the time was noise. What eventually got implemented or changed wasn’t because the ruling class got scared, but because they were either getting major gains in terms of compromise as a result of the reform, or the reform itself was beneficial to their interests and only a small minority didn’t want them to pass.

      So, in your opinion the woman’s suffrage movement, or LGBTQ activism, for example, were just wastes of time? These people didn’t need to do or say anything since the bourgeoisie were about to give them everything they wanted anyway?

      • Commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        8 months ago

        If they held no benefit to the ruling class, then no. LGBT opens up more industry focused on identity (via pride merch, medical needs) which means more profitable industry for bourgeois, while women’s suffrage legitimizes capital’s rule further by allowing more people to vote + liberates capitalist women which is what bourgeois feminism is primarily about.

        Whether these reforms would have happened without the noise though, can’t really say - there’s no mirror that looks into alternate realities. Still, these kinds of reformist mass movements are usually a result of bourgeois infighting, not some spontaneous working class action - just look at who organizes and funds them.

        Thats not to say liberal working class are idiots for joining them and acting as footsoldiers, no - there are definitely benefits to be had for one’s identity no matter the class, like in the case of LGBT, but the things won aren’t full-on liberation, just specific compromises that are capital-friendly(women getting voting rights but still being discriminated against to encourage births/staying at home and raising more workers, LGBT getting essentially bare minimum recognition and care to be sold merch but not enough to significantly attack the traditional family for child-raising). Therefore, true liberation can only happen via the abolishment of the class society, else it’s gonna be endless compromises that miss the mark.

        • drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          8 months ago

          I think workers should own their workplaces but tbh I don’t see that by itself automatically fixing all forms of prejudice and discrimination. Certainly not on a personal level, but probably not even at a systemic level either. Though I agree that the present conditions definitely forment reactionary thought.

          • Commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            8 months ago

            Yeah it won’t, because commodity production, markets, accumulative money and therefore capital won’t be abolished, meaning that the incentives to oppress certain groups of people for growth will remain.

            Only after we overcome the production for profit model and replace it with production to satisfy people’s needs will capital fully be replaced and dead, removing any incentives to discriminate (aka systemic discrimination). Will it change prejudices that people have immediately? No, but it will certainly disappear over time given how the central source of these prejudices is now abolished + a revolution and development like that is only possible in a class conscious society which produces solidarity with other workers no matter their features (USSR is a good example of this when looking at Oct Revolution - women were viewed as fellow comrades, led the charge on most influential mass protests, and once revolution happened they got a ton of systemic freedom in terms of abortion rights and legal autonomy, while the rest of the western world was still on legal guardianship).

    • Commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      8 months ago

      To give a bit of hope to the liberals in the US though, what’s happening there isn’t new and the state of things from before (as in liberal democracy functioning normally) is going to sooner and later return, it’s a cycle that happens every now and again due to falling rate of profit, crisis and rise of reaction that happens as a result.

      Eventually, liberal capitalists will start fighting the conservative capitalists to get their place in the sun again, maybe it’s going to happen electorally or maybe there’s going to be a slaughter of millions of workers in the name of liberal democracy or anti-fascism, after which wholesome democracy will reign supreme once again and the countdown towards another crisis and rise of reaction will start once again. Isn’t that lovely?

  • BC_viper@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Violence is the only answer, and until youre ready for that nothing will change. Extreme violence is the only answer.

    • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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      8 months ago

      Personally I wish they’d rioted a bit more because frankly I’m usually done by about 1:00 p.m.

    • merc@sh.itjust.works
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      8 months ago

      I’d say it was more the union organizers than the anarchists. There was a lot of overlap. But not all labour organizers were anarchists. It could even be argued that the anarchists hurt the movement more than they helped it. Some of the anarchists like August Spies were attempting to disrupt the status quo, but were trying to do it relatively non-violently. He even refused to show up to speak at the rally if workers were told to arm themselves. On the other hand, August Spies was part of the labour/anarchist movement that wore military uniforms and marched around with muskets, so it wasn’t like he was completely non-violent. Around the time of the Haymarket affair though, he was less radical than some of the anarchists, who were expressly violent and wanted to start a revolution using bombs and guns.

      The fact someone threw a bomb gave the police the excuse to crack down on the anarchists. The crackdown prevented the aims of the protesters from being achieved. But, the fact that the justice system hanged the anarchist leaders led to them being seen as martyrs. That made them famous, which made May Day famous, which eventually did help lead to the 8 hour work day. Would the 8 hour work day have been achieved faster without the bomb being thrown? It’s hard to know. The immediate result was a major setback for the cause, but the long-term result of the overreaction to that bombing was a contributing factor to the 8-hour workday eventually being achieved.

  • zululove@lemmy.ml
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    8 months ago

    Woe to the vanquished !!

    the names of our heros, and our defiers, will last forever !!

  • Gorilladrums@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Civil disobedience for the sake of it is just stupid. When we retroactively look at civil disobedience in history, we intentionally filter out the vast majority and just highlight the few examples that we’re done in ethical ways, for the right causes, and achieved results. Civil disobedience is not a virtue nor is it uncommon. What actually matters are the motivations, principles, and methods used behind the civil disobedience.

    • its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      8 months ago

      Trying to say that all the ones that failed did it wrong instead of realizing that no matter what if you succeed or fail they’re only going to elevate the ‘right’ moments and demonize the ‘wrong’ ones based on the needs of the ruling class.

  • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    8 months ago

    The most sociopatic “winners” of the current system will always laud whatever was done to establish the system in which they get so much and decry anything that might overthrow or even meaningfully change that system.

    Those who have a more empathic view of things, even when they too are considered “winners”, have a different posture if they think the current system isn’t working well for most people because they don’t think only about personal upside maximization at any cost for the rest.

    As it so happens, caring for more than just “me, me, me” is what distinguishes leftwingers from rightwingers.

    So this is a great way to spot fake leftwingers in or seeking positions of power and wealth: no matter how “progressive” their words are in general, when it comes to the current system they’ll display exactly this kind of hypocrisy of being against any kind of actions that will change the current system whilst lauding the very same kind of actions when they installed the current system, since their one true drive is “What’s in it for me”, a rightwinger’s motivation.

  • Godric@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Why are you pro-rioting before a massive rally? The regime WANTS a riot so they can engage in massive retaliation. You’re literally doing their work for them, get smart.

    • djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      8 months ago

      The regime is currently kidnapping people off the streets and raiding homes.

      They do not need pretext. They will manufacture their own regardless of what we do. You are arguing that we should not remove the boot that is currently pressed on our neck.

      • Godric@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        No I am not. I am arguing a disorganized riot accomplishes nothing and turns the boot into a machete. If your enemy wants you to do something, why are you dead-set on doing it?

    • TotallynotJessica@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOPM
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      8 months ago

      At this point, we aren’t living under liberal democracy and a peaceful rally is more illegal and dangerous than rioting was. The point is to not demonize the language of the unheard when few states will have free and fair elections next year.

    • Michael@slrpnk.net
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      8 months ago

      They do want a riot; that’s why they are talking about enacting the Insurrection Act. They want their use of force and illegal tactics to be justified to their base.

  • danielton1@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Funny how it’s getting harder and harder to find a job in the US that isn’t 10-12 hours a day, six days a week.

      • danielton1@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Yeah, we’re definitely going backwards. Americans blame the unions and worship the billionaires and politicians that are making everything worse.

  • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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    8 months ago

    This state of affairs is not especially surprising – if it were the popular belief that violence is justified to change society in some particular way, then society would already be changed in that way. Just like how no stock on the market can be widely seen as undervalued.

    This is why class consciousness is important.

    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      It’s also why it’s vital to meet people where they are. Propaganda that works often begins not with big ideas but targeting emotions and one’s perception of their everyday life, and if you aren’t engaging in propaganda then your opponent who is is defining the narrative unopposed