- cross-posted to:
- microblogmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- microblogmemes@lemmy.world
Show transcript
Screenshot of a Mastodon toot by @ebassi@mastodon.social:
The whole open source community loves Milkshake Laptops, a lovely laptop company that has ethical values! 5 seconds later We regret to inform you the laptop company stans fascists
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From what I read, it sounds like they were supporting a bunch of different projects based on “oh hey this is kind of neat and could be useful” and didn’t really look in to the background of the relevant devs.
The thread on their forum reads like them wandering in to something, reading the objection as some obscure beef and running the standard PR approach without really realizing what a mess they just stuck their foot into.
Hopefully their cage will be rattled enough to look in to it and pull back.
Yeah the user who responds by saying:
This is not a “I do not like this distribution” kind of argument.
This is a “the people you are sending my money to want me and my friends dead or deported” kind of argument.
The “big tent” argument works fine if everyone plays by some basic civil rules of understanding. Stuff like code of conducts, moderation, anti-racism, surely those things we agree on? A big tent won’t work if you let in people that want to exterminate the others.
Kind of nails it I think. For what it’s worth I don’t think there’s any malicious intent on Framework’s part necessarily, I think maybe they’ve just naively stepped on a bit of a landmine? But still, not ideal.
This is very in the weeds. They sponsor open source projects as a little side thing. One of the projects they sponsored is very bad, and they were publicly called out about it less than 24 hours ago. Not even enough time to make a proper response. I can’t even find on their website where they list the open source projects they sponsor. Open source sponsorship was never a major part of their business.
This is very new news. Give them time and form your opinion on their response. Its likely that only a small subset of the team works on open source sponsorship, so most of those in charge of the company were likely unaware until now.
edit: fixed several undecillion minor typos
first of all, its two projects. second both got most promotion by them then other projects they sponsered. third their official people (not sure how high up but still) have responded in the thread badly. fourth the thread has no positive affirmation that they care about the fascism support but more “this specific case is probably not that”, its not hard to say u dont support fascists
The assumption is that they believe a not-insignificant portion of their customers are fascist or fascist-adjacent.
If everyone upset about this boycotted and tanked their bottom line, they’d probably shift gears in a heartbeat.
But I suspect that the number of fascist/fascist-adjacent customers is high enough that they need both groups’ money to survive.
Well being tolerant with fascists is a no no.
We’re taking about being tolerant with a company that’s tolerant of fascists.
If I’m tolerant of that, would you tolerate me? Where do we draw the line?
Not trolling, but I get that it sounds that way .
If I’m tolerant of that, would you tolerate me? Where do we draw the line?
You have to tolerate everyone until they are actively intolerant. If you jump the gun on not tolerating someone or something too early, then you’re being intolerant.
Most of the laptops framework sells are sold with a windows license. Only a small subset of their small subset of Linux customers are technical enough to consider which compositor they’re using, and even fewer of them are even aware that hyperland exists and is a fascist project.
This is very in the weeds. Considering this deliberately marketing to fascists, or indicative of the company’s assumptions about their customers broadly is an insane stretch.
Framework sells microsoft products in their store, when microsoft is actively involved in helping the IDF commit genocide in Gaza. Framework bundles microsoft products in the pre-built versions of their computers. That is far more indicative of their attitudes to their customers than their donations to open source.
Keep the pressure on, do what you can to make open source better and uninviting to fascists, but keep perspective of reality while you do it.
Most of the laptops framework sells are sold with a windows license.
Is this true? I thought they were specifically marketed to tech people because of the repairability and modularity. I didn’t even know Windows users were aware that Framework exists.
If the community reacts super strongly to this before framework even has the chance to properly investigate, respond, and react to this kind of issue, why would they ever want to risk investing in open source projects in the future? Come on, people. Give them time and if you have to hate on a company hate on the bigger ones that do these sorts of things on purpose and get away with it. I understand informing Framework and putting pressure on them to fix things, but there’s such a thing as going too far.
They already made one (very poor) response and that’s what’s got most people doubling down to keep the pressure on them to change their stance. I really dont see how a bunch of forum posts could possibly be “too far”.
If it weren’t for the out of touch, deeply offensive responses they already made, this likely would not have blown up. The fact that they responded in such a dismissive, disgusting way is the reason this is news.
Should have investigated before supporting a fascist then. I won’t shed a single tear.
context: https://lemmy.world/post/37098894
so Hyprland is made by Facist, is this correct? never heard of that, but i wanted to use it at some point, guess i wont be doing that then, good to know
from what i’ve seen, hyprland’s community is highly toxic and rife with fascists. is the maintainer a fascist? idk, but you know what they say about nazi bars
the other project framework is under fire for supporting, omarchy, is proudly made by DHH, who is a known far-right racist. this one is not up for debate
I never had contact with this part of the hyprland community. I had quiet son in dep discussions with maintainers and a currently 5k lines deep in, in removing technical depts from the codebase.
I never had anything but pleasent communications.
I would love to see some examples (and if someone uses the terms highly toxic and rife with fascist I expect a lot examples) of this.
Be aware, as a German, I am highly sensitive on the missuse of the term fascist. For example many use the term fascist to describe Trump. That is not true. Trump is straight out a fucking Neo Nazi
many use the term fascist to describe Trump. That is not true. Trump is straight out a fucking Neo Nazi
can you explain that distinction? I was under the impression that neo nazis were fascists.
Yes they are. It is just more precise. Fascism itself is not inherently racist or has some kind of master race. Neo Nazis do.
And of course calling him a fascist is not inherently false. But just leaves out 80% of it
Eh I would point out that fascism doesn’t need to be racist to be evil, AND that there’s a reason why fascism is the preferred form of government for racists.
So, like, you’re not technically wrong but I think the point you’re making is bordering on moot.
Fascism is bad. Racism is bad. Most racists are fascists. Many fascists are racists.
The venn diagram of fascists and bigots of one type or another is damn close to a perfect circle
It was ja joke. Someone who is very particular about the meaning of words is sometimes called a “word Nazi” but it should be “word fascist”. Tried to play on it and forgotten that nobody outside Germany has any association with this m)
I don’t know who the creator is, but when I saw that in promotional materials for the distro, he uses Grok’s website and there is even dedicated Grok’s shortcut in the distro. I was like, I’m 89% sure this guy is maga nutjob.
That’s why I’m concerned about the ladybird browser, because in the monthly updates, the guy almost always goes to the Grog’s website.
What is with fascists and unintuitive keyboard-heavy interfaces?
Impossible to tell. Not a good person for sure, but fascist, probably not. The precipitating event happened on the Hyprland discord, which was unmoderated at the time. Someone made transphobic remarks. Drew DeVault (a big-mouthed idealist with extreme opinions and thin skin) kicked Hyprland out of the Freedesktop project for this, and wrote a wordy blog post criticising the community. Then, because media literacy is fucking dead, people who already agreed with DeVault’s views took it at face value and ran with it to chase the Woozle.
The truth is somewhere between the extremes, and if that one article that indirectly refers to the incident is enough for you to make such a conclusion… you and DeVault would get along just fine.
(edit) I haven’t used Hyprland for over a year and have been out of the loop, this info might be outdated.
this comment undermines what happened as “someone made transphobic remarks” when there was more than “someone” and more than “transphobia” (not that just one person saying transphobic bs makes it not bad, but saying its a single incident and not a repeated common thread in that community is undermines at the very least).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8SiRr7qWUc This video covers is like how an outsider would so imo its good enough info on this
I didnt have much info about the situation. Thanks for the video!
This guy is full of shit. He’s a Lemmy.world mod and had to lock the meme about this because it wasn’t lining up with his world view and he’s being down voted.
He’s not arguing in good faith. Just desperate. 🤡
this is the first i’m hearing about it and i’m a year or more into using hyprland, which is frustrating. i tend to avoid discord communities in favor of just reading documentation though.
I have a big tent too but you know who’s not under it? Fascists
Can I come in please? I’d love to be somewhere fascisn’t.
As another example of this sort of thing, shopify, cloudflare, futo, jetbrains are sponsoring ladybird, while Kling apparently shares DHH’s views. It’s definitely generally bad to support a project led by this sort of person, and now that they know about it I think they should stop, but idk if i’d condemn the whole company over it. Especially as it often requires quite a bit of research to find out about that sort of stuff unless you were there when the social media drama happened.
i don’t think unknowingly supporting shitty people is that bad. mistakes happen, after all.
knowingly supporting shitty people, and then saying it’s fine because you’re wanting to create a big tent that includes everyone, even fascists, is bad! very bad!
“let’s sit Nazis at our table so we get all viewpoints!”
Also, if you have semi-plausible deniability that you didn’t know, but you had an inkling and you didn’t want to find out… That’s not great either.
Not knowing isn’t a full excuse if you actively try to not find out.
while Kling apparently shares DHH’s views
Who are those people and why are their views important?
kling is the creator/head of the ladybird browser. dhh is the creator of ruby on rails, but he’s now working on omarchy, which is basically just a collection of dotfiles for arch but people love for some reaso (personal rant).
the reason that their views are important is because a lot of tech companies, even ones that were previously reputable like framework, have been pouring a lot of money into these. this is especially relevant for omarchy, since afaik dhh is the only person working on it, making donations to omarchy basically be direct donations to dhh himself.
while kling has done some questionable things, dhh is basically just a straight up fascist, which really puts the principles of the companies giving money and promotion to him (like framework) into question
omg techtakes mentioned :3
i wrote grants for a few years and i’m kind of surprised they wouldn’t do that due diligence
Just get an old ThinkPad like me, problem solved!
IBM huh?
No, it’s Lenovo, but the kind that still has a CPU socket and a removable battery, one of which could have been a nice addition to framework if they didn’t insist on “modern design sensibilities”…
“modern design sensibilities”
How I dislike laptops not having trackpad buttons! No matter how good modern trackpads are, I still just want buttons. And lots of keys, and switches… and screws. Don’t care how clean and sleek modern laptops look, they are a tool for me.
- Bonus points for the trackpoint!
- Bonus points for the trackpoint!
BRING BACK THE CLIT STICK
Here’s hoping for a new official response that takes these concerns much more seriously and commits to a structure that doesnt allow for these types of issues to come up again. I had just finally decided on framework for my next laptop, but I’ll happily spend my money elsewhere if this isnt resolved very differently from how they first hoped to sweep it away.
God damn it, Framework, cmon
Anyone want to give some context here?
I legit scrolled down on my feed and found this
Can anyone tell me what that is on the shelf in the top left of this video? https://youtu.be/OZRG7Og61mw?t=272
Is that some kind of fascist symbol?
if only being trans and being a fascist were mutually exclusive 🥴
but yea, that kind of stuff is why we’re disappointed. framework pitched itself as a progressive and cool company, seeing them support fascists now is very upsetting.
if only being trans and being a fascist were mutually exclusive 🥴
Cough, cough, Blaire White, cough, cough…
(I think Brianna Wu is just a naive idiot, especially considering her past, Contrapoints just has bad takes on some topics one of which included the current Palestine-Israel war.)
you mean the shark?
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