Yeah we can totally forget the actions of people like Malcolm X, MLK Jr, Fred Hampton and the thousands of other people that died fighting for those rights.
Never said we should. I am saying that if you don’t channel that energy into getting representation we won’t have a material benefit and will have wasted the organization.
Notice how you still have not said anything about an alternative course of action? Tankies are not serious people.
Libs focusing on voting as the sole method of change or completely inflating it’s importance are a large part of the reason there isn’t a strong left-wing in the US.
Libs focusing on voting as the sole method of change
And I have said multiple times, to you even, that its just one front in what we need to be doing. And an important front in the [class] war. Tankies just aren’t serious about fighting.
I think our disagreement here is just how important electoralism is for us.
I think electoralism has practically delivered us into the jaws of fascism and has done nothing but delay the inevitable.
You think for some reason that electoralism Will somehow save us and bring about harm reduction.
I am literally quoting arguments from Rosa Luxembourg, Lenin, Engels, and Marx which all focused quite heavily on how to affect change in the United States and in general and all of them came to the conclusion that spending a lot of time with electoralism is a waste of time. You will never have to say you want and you will never get what you want because they are incentivized to not listen to you.
Your responses are standard reform is mainstream media responses that are delivered every single time someone brings out the talking point that electoralism and this strategy is what brought us here in the first place. When I’m advocating to do something different you’re telling me that I’m wrong, when I point out that it’s not work historically you tell me that we just need to give it another, when I point out how the strategy of harm reduction hasn’t worked in 20 years you point out that voters need to not be apathetic to get things done. Which is true but you’re not answering how you get those apathetic voters to vote and advocating on Lemmy ain’t it brother.
I’m not sitting here advocating to anybody who didn’t vote I’m sitting here telling people who want to spend a bunch of time trying to advocate for people to vote that it’s a waste of their time and that they should be more focused on getting people to engage in electoral politics and that that interest will drive them to vote.
I think electoralism has practically delivered us into the jaws of fascism and has done nothing but delay the inevitable.
I am aware of what you are saying. And I never said it is the only front in the war. I am saying you are foolishly leaving that flank open and we as a whole are weaker because of it. You are very privileged that you can just not vote. Those hunted by ICE couldn’t by definition and we left them abandoned because we are too pure to give them a hand. That is frankly just as gross as [to me] those who voted yes to their persecution.
Dude we have been focusing on electoralism now for the better part of 40 years and it hasn’t done anything to save us. The apathetic voter problem has been a problem for a number of years and both sides have been trying to solve it.
The problem is a sole focus on electoralism or viewing electoralism as one of the most important fronts is a mistake. We have had 40 plus years of viewing electoralism as the primary means of political change and it has not delivered us any of the things we need nor any of the protections we want.
Once again that was done on the ground through local organization
We haven’t. The fact that non-voting has been the biggest group for decades means the front is still hot. Thanks for abandoning your allies here and making it harder for our movement to grow.
Never said we should. I am saying that if you don’t channel that energy into getting representation we won’t have a material benefit and will have wasted the organization.
Notice how you still have not said anything about an alternative course of action? Tankies are not serious people.
I said multiple times over the course of this thread that we should put our energy into organizing locally.
It’s not my fault that you seem to have the comprehension skills of a fish.
And voting is part of that. A big and important part. Tankies leaving that out shows they are not serious about material change.
Libs focusing on voting as the sole method of change or completely inflating it’s importance are a large part of the reason there isn’t a strong left-wing in the US.
And I have said multiple times, to you even, that its just one front in what we need to be doing. And an important front in the [class] war. Tankies just aren’t serious about fighting.
I think our disagreement here is just how important electoralism is for us.
I think electoralism has practically delivered us into the jaws of fascism and has done nothing but delay the inevitable.
You think for some reason that electoralism Will somehow save us and bring about harm reduction.
I am literally quoting arguments from Rosa Luxembourg, Lenin, Engels, and Marx which all focused quite heavily on how to affect change in the United States and in general and all of them came to the conclusion that spending a lot of time with electoralism is a waste of time. You will never have to say you want and you will never get what you want because they are incentivized to not listen to you.
Your responses are standard reform is mainstream media responses that are delivered every single time someone brings out the talking point that electoralism and this strategy is what brought us here in the first place. When I’m advocating to do something different you’re telling me that I’m wrong, when I point out that it’s not work historically you tell me that we just need to give it another, when I point out how the strategy of harm reduction hasn’t worked in 20 years you point out that voters need to not be apathetic to get things done. Which is true but you’re not answering how you get those apathetic voters to vote and advocating on Lemmy ain’t it brother.
I’m not sitting here advocating to anybody who didn’t vote I’m sitting here telling people who want to spend a bunch of time trying to advocate for people to vote that it’s a waste of their time and that they should be more focused on getting people to engage in electoral politics and that that interest will drive them to vote.
I am aware of what you are saying. And I never said it is the only front in the war. I am saying you are foolishly leaving that flank open and we as a whole are weaker because of it. You are very privileged that you can just not vote. Those hunted by ICE couldn’t by definition and we left them abandoned because we are too pure to give them a hand. That is frankly just as gross as [to me] those who voted yes to their persecution.
Dude we have been focusing on electoralism now for the better part of 40 years and it hasn’t done anything to save us. The apathetic voter problem has been a problem for a number of years and both sides have been trying to solve it.
The problem is a sole focus on electoralism or viewing electoralism as one of the most important fronts is a mistake. We have had 40 plus years of viewing electoralism as the primary means of political change and it has not delivered us any of the things we need nor any of the protections we want.
Once again that was done on the ground through local organization
We haven’t. The fact that non-voting has been the biggest group for decades means the front is still hot. Thanks for abandoning your allies here and making it harder for our movement to grow.