Revenge and retribution are not the same thing. Retribution is getting justice so the person feels made more whole. Vengeance/revenge is destroying the actor who committed the action.

We don’t have a society that rehabilitates other, we only have a system that jails people, and unfortunately for her, that is what I think should happen.

Yes, I know that gross negligence has a legal definition, and I’m using it specifically in this case because a CPS worker negligently left a child in her hot car for hours while she went on personal errands. All she had to do was look in her rearview mirror to see the child. Put a sticky note on the fucking steering wheel. She could have done a number of things differently to ensure the child’s still alive.

As for atoning for this person’s mistakes, they can atone from jail, where they can also serve out community service. Ultimately, this is for a court to decide which I think is the most appropriate as I don’t think we’ll see eye to eye on this one.

For instance this would have made a significant difference

In the report, NSC also issues recommendations for parents and caregivers including leaving a purse or cell phone in the backseat so they are reminded to check the back before leaving the vehicle.

https://www.nsc.org/newsroom/just-21-states-protect-children-hot-cars

You’re also wrong that parents aren’t often charged. According to this study, 58% of parents who leave their child in a hot car face charges after the fact.

They also note authorities pursued criminal charges in 58% of cases.

https://journalistsresource.org/health/child-dead-left-hot-car-research/#%3A~%3Atext=Researchers+analyzed+541+cases+of

I am just not sure tossing them in jail does anyone any good

Mistakes do happen, but when mistakes happen, we don’t let somebody off the hook. There are multiple studies that confirm that humans need some amount of retribution so that they feel something was done to address the inappropriateness of the action. This is not just a mistake, a child died because of the ineptitude of this worker.

The quality of people for this job is already significantly reduced due to the abusive situation they often have to work in, the extreme lack of benefits, and the extremely low pay. This person facing punishment isn’t going to reduce the amount of applicants for this position because those applicants aren’t applying because they like the job, they’re applying because they feel a higher call.

Just because there should have been two people doesn’t mean you let the person that negligently killed a child off the hook. I can be angry at the state for not supplying enough resources for these cps workers, but I can also be angry at this particular person for allowing a child to die in a hot car. I failed to see, by the way, how that could be anything other than gross negligence.

Furthermore, parents often have to deal with their child on a one-on-one scenario where this does happen to them, and it’s still not an excuse for that to happen, and those parents do get charged, and if they have other kids, CPS does get involved.

So to recap, this worker was put in a situation that parents face all the time and negligingly forgot a child in a hot car. Even if it was not done maliciously, that does not excuse her actions, and she should face retribution for the consequences of her actions. And then you’re defending that we shouldn’t want retribution from this person because that might put people off from working in child protective services?

I think your empathy may be blinding you here, comrade.

They’re mad about all of the human shit? What about all of the human bodies?

Nah, fuck this opinion. Parents are required to be good parents regardless of how they’re getting paid and somebody who has been entrusted to ensure the safety of a child regardless of how they’re getting paid should do so in a way that does not ensure their death. When your entire job is child healthcare, forgetting a child in a hot car is completely inappropriate. Not only should they be blackballed from this industry, but they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Honestly, I can see this slapping.

Archive URL: https://archive.is/2y5ZS

Well, if shit hits the fan in the US, I hope you guys will take me.

Just so we’re clear, you’re explaining that FDR got those things through by taking actions that he was able to do, and that if he hadn’t, we would not have gotten.

IE he is directly responsible for the permanent creation of multiple agencies which would not have been created without his foresight, plan, or public push.

What was that about him carrying out plans by Congress when he constantly had to wield public authority to make Congress do the things they were supposed to do? You just not gonna mention the fact that he had to threaten the supreme court multiple times to stack the court or remove justices in order to get them to play along with his reformations?

Besides, the democrats haven’t done anything like that in around 79 years which goes to my point that they aren’t doing anything.

Hoping nothing but good things from this

Yeah, I wonder why it’s called the FDR reformations and not the reformations of the 73rd Congress. 🙄

Been really excited to see what’s coming out of Mexico. We’ll have to see how it continues to improve the situation.

I stopped using these guys when it became clear they were doing everything they could to prevent the government from developing their own app.

Better headline. 21 children killed as Israel’s genocide ramps up using illegal collective starvation.

I have pointed out numerous times how this strategy is just a repeat of the same electoral strategy that radical liberals have been engaging in for the better part of 20 years.

This is clearly not a winning strategy. You’re not being pragmatic you’re being insane because you continue to do the same thing expecting a different result while watching our government inch closer to fascism.

Pragmatically voting for minimizing harm means voting in the most working class candidate possible because that’s what we should all do regardless of party and vote for the most Progressive policies to uplift Working Class People. Anything past that is generally a waste of time.

If there’s a candidate a particular group is interested in sure they could spend some of their time doing electoral politics but they have additional responsibilities they have to do which are far more important and then spreading the propaganda of whatever candidate they’re trying to get voted in.

Like I said before education is incredibly important to help build the working class party and an educated working class would vote for the working class candidate regardless of party.

To your point you don’t get to pick who the generals are either. Nor do you get to pick who your comrades are or what the proper strategies are. Sometimes we have to conform to reality which I would argue that you are not.

Oh I don’t think she’s a genocide supporter I know she’s Pro Palestinian. I just think this was unequivocally a loss for AOC.

I don’t agree with the people that smeared paint all over her office but I do understand why they are upset.

Okay so yeah you are objectively correct that she did vote down the overall bill that funds Israel in general but let’s not forget that she was condemned by Ilhan Omar and DSA for voting no on the MTG Amendment. It’s not just people throwing shade at her she is receiving legitimate criticism for not voting away more of Israel’s funding. The argument is quite simple As long as Israel commits a genocide they should receive no military funding period regardless of what they would use the assets for.

She is using the proper terminology calling this a genocide. She is heavily critical of Israel and she at least didn’t vote Yes on a funding bill in 2021.

So in general she tends to be pretty Pro Palestinian but I think in this particular case on the MTG Amendment this is a loss unequivocally for her and she made a mistake. And she’s deepening that mistake by doubling down.

Noted I will not make sarcastic comments like that anymore. You do have a point that you never attacked my character for the most part. So I probably should not have made the comment about getting a jacket specifically to rile you up.

Regardless I wouldn’t go buy the jacket I would make it. Much more ethical that way.

Other tankies will do what you want them to do but they will not spend their time doing the other thing you want them to do which is try to engage people to get them to vote. They will see it like I do as a waste of time.

You can try this thing on Anarchist and they would respond the same. They would see it as a waste of time.

You were not going to beat the government by playing in the government’s own Turf and following their rules

That was a good play trying to tug on my heartstrings with the PLA except they’re not actually a good model to replicate in the Quest for liberation. Nice try though.

It would have been better for you to quote Lenin.

You still can’t let the sarcastic comment about a jacket go. Besides I would not waste my time buying a jacket I would make my own. I am a proud communist after all.

Being pragmatic about voting is not the same as investing time into electoralism. Being pragmatic about voting means voting in the working class candidate always regardless of their chance of winning. Or voting in a policy that will help uplift the working class. Thats it.

You should spend literally no more time than that on voting.

You should not waste your time trying to create policies or trying to push them through the parliamentarian process. It is a Fool’s errand and a waste of time. Attempting to push policy through that will benefit the working class against the capitalistic interest is basically just a waste of time, money, and energy. The capitalist literally built the system so that it would not work that way and it could not be used against them in that way. Something that Rosa Luxembourg addresses in her book reform or revolution.

If your local organization wants a certain person to win then yes they obviously should spend some time on electoralism. Probably about 10% of their time doing some sort of propaganda for their chosen candidate. The rest of the time they should be doing other much more useful things like collecting donations to feed the hungry in their community, or finding beds and shelters that are open for the homeless folk in their community, or educating the masses on communist Theory so that they gain class consciousness.

These are the things we should be focused on not getting people elected. Thus electoralism is not a major front at all and hardly worth considering when faced with the other monumental tasks that must be done in order to facilitate the rise of a working class party.

Your Privilege is showing again. Native Americans aren’t exactly Keen on getting us Aid. Something about the numerous strings attached.

I would vote pragmatically for the candidate who promises to do the most with the best track record. Which probably won’t be the Democrat or the Republican.

Yes they should vote for the most radical candidate that will bring the most benefit to workers regardless of the party.

You keep saying that electoralism is one of the most important fronts for the class war.

I’d be very happy to go pull it out of a screenshot for you.

I disagree. I think electoralism should be practiced only in so far as we can get something pragmatically out of it. This of course would mean advocating for people like Zohran Mamdani but also be willing to call him out for playing to corporate interests over those of the community. Frankly I’m super excited for him to get elected. It’s going to be a wonderful example of the ineffectiveness of electoralism to actually get anything done. And if I’m wrong that’s even better because the material conditions actively get better for people.

Currently I don’t think we’ll get anything out of the Democrats. I don’t think they’ll roll back any of the Trump changes and it would just be a pause before the next fascist Administration rolls in.

Liberals have no idea where to put in their time and effort when it comes to making changes politically and it shows throughout this entire thread. You know you should at least read the commie books since they have a ton of information on how to properly organize a community and how to utilize their local power including when to use electoralism.