If you had a machine that created a window through which you could see the future, and in the future you wrote down the winning lottery numbers and relayed that information to your present self before that lottery number was drawn.
However, in your present selfs excitement, you turn off the machine before your future self wrote the winning lottery numbers into it for your past self.
What would happen?
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I don’t think you’ve thought through your question. The machine was open in both time periods. The machine was turned off after the information was given. There’s nothing more to happen.
I get what you’re trying to say, but it doesn’t really apply to the scenario you are describing.
I saw a better version of what you are attempting to present: a scientist has a button that transports an object back in time by 5 seconds. An apple is tested successfully, it appears 5 seconds before he pushes the button and when he pushes the button the original disappears. They try it with a live mouse but something goes wrong; when it appears it’s horribly disfigured and this scares the scientist who pulls away from pushing the button. The mouse has already appeared but he will not press the button. Now what happens?
Looks like somebody has read the long jaunt by Stephen King
First of all this is not a paradox, unless you’re not explaining something, there are two yous past and future, if past self turns off the machine before seeing the numbers nothing happened, if he turns it off afterwards the information has already been transferred so nothing happens either.
I have a feeling you might have recently watched Primer and are thinking of a similar working tome machine, where the machine needs to be powered on from past until future. But if this situation happened in Primer it wouldn’t be a problem either because you’re not in the box after you leave it. It’s a bit weird, but if you imagine time as horizontal lines, the box allows you to travel diagonally, so you only exist inside the box in that timeline at the moment of exiting, before that you were in a different timeline, so if you exit the box, wait a while and turn it off you’re only preventing yourself from using the box again. In fact that’s one of the big reveals of the movie, except it’s said in passing by mentioning that the boxes are multi-use.
I have watched this movie many times and I just bought it on Apple TV because it was five dollars, I can’t wait to not understand again
Have you seen Timecrimes?
No. Thank you for the recommendation. I will be watching it soon.
What would happen is entirely your responsibility as the author of the scenario.
Some options may be more “realistic” than others, but since the existence of a working time machine is already beyond what seems to be feasible physics (requiring ridiculous amounts and density of negative energy for example, where not even any has been shown to be possible to make) the scenario becomes soft sci-fi, or in other words magic, and that means it’s up to the writer to make up the rules.
Here is a post I found with many of the options you can choose from.
This is fundamentally a variation on the question of a Temporal Paradox, also known as a Grandfather Paradox (“You go back in time and kill your grandfather. What happens?”). Although no killing happens in this variation, the basic idea is the same: Information is transmitted to the past from the future, but results in a situation where it cannot be transmitted in the first place.
Accordingly, there are several hypotheses to cover this. This isn’t even all of them:
- The closed loop theory: To maintain the loop, you will in the future build a time machine which will allow you to activate the machine in the past, maintaining the loop. Past you may even be unaware it was activated from the future.
- The Parallel Universe theory: When future-you sent information into the past, they did not send it into their own past but rather into a universe in which you do not send the information back in the first place.
- The Timelike Curve theory: Because there is no common reference frame for “time”, each quanta of “you” is experiencing a different reference frame. The historic light cone of your future self sending the information back exists, and if you could follow those photons backwards you would find him doing this. But future you, in your frame of reference, will never see the machine activate.
- The Emergent Time theory: Time is not a linear path, but a function of entropy. By inverting entropy, you have caused a reconfiguration of the universe into a version in which the machine is inactive.
I’m more of an Emergent Time/Timeline Curve theory guy. The others are cool for sci-fi and stuff but I just can’t conceive of that being how it works.
Closed Loop Theory seems like too cheeky of an explanation. It’s basically a bait and switch. Like: “What if you did thing? But then DIDN’T do thing!” with the answer being “actually you did but just later”. To be fair though isn’t the theory really just saying the universe will correct itself somehow?
Also since you seem knowledgeable on this, something I’ve always wondered about: is their any theory centered around our frame of reference having a past but not a future? As in we’re blazing the trail forward like an ice breaker ship for everyone else to follow? There’s probably a million fundamental laws of the universe that makes that impossible.
Sorry, I’m not very smart, but I do kinda love this stuff.
I don’t get it. Where’s the paradox here? He gets to see the future but turns off the machine before getting any information from it so nothing changes. What I’m missing?
His future self showed his past self the lottery numbers through the open window, but he closes the window, so his future self can’t show them to his past self.
I’ve read your message and the OPs like 5 times and I still have no idea what is being described… I might be stupid.
His future self showed his past self the lottery numbers through the open window
Got it. We’re good so far.
but he closes the window, so his future self can’t show them to his past self.
This is what I’m stuck on. So he didn’t actually? I get the irony of saying a paradox doesn’t make sense but I’m not even following the thought experiment. His future self opens a window and says “Hey, get some paper and a pen, I’ve got some winning lottery numbers for you!” and his past self goes “Oh boy!” and then immediately CLICK (closes the portal) before ever being shown the numbers.
Could it be restated to say he gets the numbers from his future self but then 30 years later just forgets to do the same thing for his past self?
His future self opens a window and says “Hey, get some paper and a pen, I’ve got some winning lottery numbers for you!” and his past self goes “Oh boy!” and then immediately CLICK (closes the portal) before ever being shown the numbers.
Here’s your issue - it’s not the future self opening the window, it’s his past self. The future self can only speak through the window, but he can’t open it. So since the “current” self closes the window, the future self won’t be able to speak through it.
You’d still be poor.
Fml
You can kinda see this play out in the short story by Ted Chiang called The Merchant and the Alchemist’s Gate.
