Maybe it’s already been said in so many words but I bought the OnePlus One when it was released and it was kick-ass compelling hardware that happened to have Cyanogen mod. I emphasize the hardware aspect because this is a draw for many people. People were talking about it. If you get a certain percentage of the public drooling over some eye candy they might be more openness to something like a Linux phone. Of course it’s always a spectrum and some people - like many here - are more swayed by software alone and that’s awesome too.
A 24hr waiting period to use a competitor’s product has to be one of the most blatant anti-competitive behaviour in history.
If only the founding fathers had written the right to bear apps shall not be infringed in an amendment.
Oh well can’t change the ancient text now, just have to be governed by it forever. 🤷 (It’s a shame the ancient powder-wigged wizards that wrote the constitution weren’t clairvoyant.)
If only there were some way to change the ancient text. Some sort of amend-sion. Surely our benevolent leaders would have figured something like that out by now. I guess we’ll just have to keep voting and hoping every four years
We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas
Or just call a constitutional convention and write a new one.
That surely won’t backfire spectacularly.
That’s it gents! Wax up those mustaches, load the cannon with grape, storm the White House! We’ll give those bastards a day of reckoning that won’t soon be forgot.
Also kilts and face paint 🤣
I am not from the US but can’t you interpret the first amendment in a way that would work here?
Code is just information and you could argue that a platform is infringing on private free speech.
i am American, and yes we have a long history of interpretation that is expansive. the problem is we have narrow minded people running the institutions now who don’t even want the narrow interpretations to be in effect so they do everything possible to limit them.
if you pay attention long enough you will see them use one argument to get their way, then later use the opposite to get their way on a different issue. there is no moral consistency because morality is just s tool to them.
What competitor?
Welcome to McDonald’s credit! You’ll have to wait 24hrs if you want to eat that Whopper you want to buy!
I‘m curious I read the petition and didn‘t see mention of „24h waiting“ anywhere could you tell me what you‘re referring to?
please just make an android alternative
I want a phone that isn’t a closed ecosystem race to the bottom shit phone
There are, but the market is rigged by monopolists. And things like banks increasingly require apps that won’t even run on customer Android ROMs easily.
The regulators are needed here.
The problem with regulators is that they a) gladly suck corporate dicks, b) gladly opt-in for the same authoritarian methods of population control, and c) gladly ignore common sense altogether.
“a” has a name: regulatory capture.
Regulators have in the past fulfilled their role, they’ve just been hamstrung.
That is also because we let the companies get too big. We need to break them up. The market is completely dysfunctional. It is feudalism right now.
All of the alternatives eventually run into the same “Will my banking app work on it?” problem. The absence of a healthy app economy is the one thing that can’t be fixed by throwing software engineers at it, and it is what caused the death of Windows Phone.
They should work in a browser no?
Not for things like check deposits, unfortunately
Well, that’s fine since it isn’t 1982 anymore. Right?
Many banks require apps for 2FA. This varies greatly by country.
There are open source 2FA. They require like specific apps OTP or something else?
You have to use the bank’s own app to 2FA.
So you can use the website in your browser but still have the have their app installed for 2fa? That’s peak bullshit there.
Google reCaptcha is going to have a similar requirement for accesing half the bloody internet once that goes through. In summary, I think we are fucked.
God I fucking LOVED my windows phone. Nokia body, windows OS, and no one fucked with making viruses because eleventeen people bought one in total.
🤣 Man… that phone from The Saint with the slide out full sized keyboard though. Peek Nokia.
Lumias before Microsoft’ acquisition were adorable phones.
Right. It wasn’t the zune guy, limited adoption, Microserfs killing the platform after 7 years or a general lack of interest, a climate of distrust after 10 years of garbage operating systems with new logos and the same Windows NT internals…
i hope linux phones succeed
I feel like that won’t be enough. Google is working on locking down the entire internet unless you can pass their reCaptcha with a verified device. See this article related to GrapheneOS and their reCaptcha concerns.
Sites need to stop using reCaptcha or we are all doomed anyway.
I’m pretty sure that custom roms will remove that 24hr wait period from their binaries. Android is still open source and removing a check isn’t going to be very hard for them.
The tech ecosystem is as open as you can. Use linux. Use SearxNG. Use graphene or other custom roms. There’s options out there, you just have to start adopting them instead of just complaining online about having no choice.
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I might have misunderstood that all those years, but custom roms like graphene or lineage all use the AOSP source to build “their” stuff on top. Android itself is all the proprietary shit google adds and probably bunch of proprietary firmware drivers, which isn’t relevant in the slightest if you switch to a supported device.
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Yeah, that’s roughly what I thought, in which case switching to graphene (or any other custom rom) would completely “release” you from the proprietary grasp of google and their genius ideas. Because even if they add this 24hr lockdown in the AOSP-Project, graphene could rather easiely revert that change in their fork.
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Graphene doesn’t, they got their own sandboxed google play services compatibility layer. Other OS - no idea tbh.
Google reCaptcha enters the chat.
This whole APK dicussion is important, but Google is taking steps to lock down the bloody internet if you aren’t on a verified iOS or Android device. This will be far reaching going way beyond the APK changes.
Not everybody has a choice. I’m currently on grapheneos, but it looks like I may be forced back to android due to national ID requirements.
I guess one solution to that is to have a second used or ultra low cost phone just for your personal ID and banking stuff. But then it’s no longer really mobile lol.
If your country forces you on a locked down OS for ID requirements, something is wrong entirely. You should absolutely make some noise against that and urge them to allow custom OS. That’s a political issue, not a technical.
It’s not going to go anywhere in my country, unfortunately. Not even a blip on the radar.
Shit country tbh. You might be able to get a cheap stock android device for your ID and your “actual” device keeps living the good life on a custom rom. Idk how feasible that is for your lifestyle tho.
The issue is the hardware, we already have software
We already have the hardware too
Not ours, we depend on it
OK but that is about a 10000x bigger project
Rejoice. As an Android owner, you have options of And-nodroid 😉
I genuinely appreciate the cause, but to sign this, I have to provide PII, agree to their terms of service and privacy policy, and get automatically opted-in to their mailing list that I’ll have to unsubscribe from later.
So to petition against this shitty tech stuff, I have to go through this other shitty tech stuff. It sucks how normalized this all has become.
here it makes at least some sense to verify that each person voted once. the mail list stuff is of course to much and should be optional from the beginning.
Anyone know if this affects GrapheneOS users? I can install GrapheneOS like 50x faster than it would take to understand what I’m legally binding myself to by signing the petition.
custom OS shouldn’t be effected by it. I’ll probably change soon as well.
anyway, that is rather independent on the petition. a petition is usually not for your own short term benefit, rather for the common good, or outreach of the general problem. so doing either is for different reasons, both reasonable
You aren’t going to keep Android open. Respond by shoring up Linux phones.
Not only would that solve this little problem, it would reduce Google’s power and remove one’s data from the claws of US authorities (were the Patriot and Cloud acts let them mass track everybody using a Google product).
Just make sure you chose a non-US Linux phone.
I don’t want to buy a new phone
Google doesn’t give a shit about what you want. It only understands two things: credible legal threats and not giving them your money.
I’m saying I don’t want to buy a new thing, so saying “just buy new phone” doesn’t really help for a lot of people
These people are screwed, then. You can’t expect an uncaring universe to accomodate your wishes, if you’re not willing to move yourself. Stopping using stuff is always an option that doesn’t cost money.
I don’t want to, but I will if I have to
Awww
Most of the world can’t afford to buy one specific android and hope not to brick it. Most people can’t afford a google pixel and if they can, aren’t going to risk it.
And what happens when google cuts off third party tools like MicroG. I need WhatsApp for almost everything from talking to family and friends to Work. Most of the world does, and the same is true for Facebook.
Most people can’t afford a google pixel and if they can, aren’t going to risk it.
And they shouldn’t. By buying Pixels you are supporting Google, the same company that is destroying Android freedom.
Today’s best alternatives are phones that come preloaded with custom ROMs (Brax3, Fairphone, Murena, Iodé, and so on), or if you’re feeling more adventurous, a Linux phone (I have heard good things about FuriLabs FLX1).
Which is why you stop using Android and use Linux phones instead.
Most Linux phones are android phones that have a Linux rom available to them, hence why they said most people wouldn’t risk what they spent a lot of money on
I didn’t say put a Linux rom on an android phone. I said use a Linux phone.
Then you are fucked right? What’s app and Facebook have you.
I too live somewhere this is expected. I said no. I won’t do it. Facebook is easy, because whatever.
WhatsApp is harder even the doctors want to use it. But I won’t. Someone has to start saying no.
“I need WhatsApp for almost everything from talking to family and friends to Work. Most of the world does, and the same is true for Facebook.”
Whatsapp and Facebook bring convienence for sure, but you can live without them. All those that know me, know i refuse to use Whatapp. Those that want to keep up with me have installed Signal. I admit that for business it can be tricky but we have to start somewhere?
or making a cydia-style open source repository style app store that’s accessible through custom firmware.
This will not work either. Stop using Android.
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Or you could beat them over the head with their own consequences and leave the platform en masse
The number of times that signing an online petition has prevented the plans of an evil corporation is exactly zero.
I am not so sure. It creats activity, being passive is worse. We should encourage all type of protests, even petitions.
Fire also creates activity.
I’m highly active at a molecular level doesn’t mean I’m getting shit done 😊
at the molecular level at that.
It dissipates righteous indignation by making sure that people feel the satisfaction and the release of “doing something” (and thus not act any more forcefully) whilst said “something” is the least impactful thing imaginable.
It ultimately makes those who would do more do less instead.
There are already some movements, like #Keep Android Open that ask to contact local regulators and law makers, this petition is useful to have a concrete number of people that agree and that can be used officially
Companies have reversed unpopular decisions in the past (just saw a thing about Facebook reversing some AI thing). So there may be some possible chance of them reversing this decision. I’m not hopeful but the cost is cheap, and it has a better chance of success than doing nothing
Hence the proliferation of spam… It cost nearly nothing to do and has a very limited chance of return… And yet my inbox has still got 10,000 messages in it which I do nothing about.
I agree. Doesn’t do anything it would be better to get people to buy stock in the company and vote on what you want. Get enough people and you can make change.
But that process is also… Gross. And expensive.
Mandate that all boot loaders can be unlocked by consumers/device owners!
That single change alone would open the floodgates of development.
Manufacturer locked boot loaders was the single biggest mistake made in the phone world. Now just consider all the work it’ll take to reverse that simple misstep made years ago that nobody gave a single thought to.
All this effort going towards “saving” green fascism when we should be pouring these efforts into Linux
That’s great and all but the current linux phone offerings are… not suitable for general public use. The iPad generation will simply not be able to use them in their current state.
We were so close to a phone usable by non-enthusiasts with the Nokia N1. The Nokia Linux phones were killed when Nokia hired a former VP at Microsoft to be their CEO. I’m still bitter.
Jolla, ex nokia employees, just sent out their first batch of the Jolla phone. It uses sailfishOS, a Linux based operating system capable of running android apps.
I’m in the wait list for my own.
Unfortunately not available for in the US :(
I want one so badly
I’m in Canada. I got myself a Sony Xperia and bought a Sailfish licence for it so I could get the Waydroid integration and predictive text keyboard. Works pretty well. So if you are interested in the OS rather than the hardware, that could be a route to go.
Technically, the licence is not for sale in Canada (or US), but meh, it did work at the time. Probably still does.
Anyway, I quite enjoy Sailfish. Been using it for about 4 years now or thereabouts. There’s a fair number of native apps, especially with Chum and Storeman. With Waydroid, many Android apps work too, though definitely not all.
Historically the most technically inclined are always the first to a “new” technology. I don’t see why this round should be any different a the ipad generation will come when it’s their time.
There’s diminishing returns, and we have lives outside our phones. Well, most of us. We can put a limited amount of time and energy into this, but pushing Linux requires a great deal of effort and time.
Not saying we shouldn’t also do that, but in the mean time fighting to keep the options we do have less shitty shouldn’t be completely abandoned.
You’re right. The green fascists will probably change their minds and just be cool about this.
You’re right, we should just roll over instead of fighting for a better future.
My original comment’s point was we should push as hard as we can into Linux and abandon green fascism all together
And my point was that putting all your eggs in one basket, especially if they’re not even laid yet, is foolhardy.
Fuck you Pichai. They should be sued.
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Petitions are useless
Protests are useless
Governments and corporations conspire to implement surveilance knowing what comes next
<-- we are here
Actual resistence
Well put
That is simply wrong. Public pressure can certainly be effective. In any case, it’s definitely better than doing nothing at all.
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The petition is only one part of the puzzle.
Keep Android Open also says to contact your regulators and fill out Google’s developer verification survey, both of which either directly affect Google by influencing internal processes, or put regulatory pressure on them to back off.
The Change.org petition is moreso just a way to count overall total supporters, and add one more lever of pressure that can be leveled against them. (e.g. instead of “we’ve had a lot of people contact regulators” it’s “218,000 people are actively taking the time to tell you they don’t like this”, can be cited by lawmakers, advocacy groups, etc)
That said though, I do agree that a change.org petition on its own is… generally ineffective most of the time.
Most online petitions are nothing more than a way to safely (for those targeted and for those amongst the authorities who support them even against the public interest) dissipate the common people’s righteous indignation, by making them feel like they “did something” whilst said something is just about the least impactful thing imaginable.
(Some official ones, for example those mandating parliamentary sessions on the subject if they reach a certain threshold, might not be so, though its unclear as it really depends on the legislation around it allowing politicians to just ignore it at will)
This bullshit will require a lot more than adding your name into a list on some corner of the web in some legal jurisdiction where they’re free to sell your private information.
Only an Android alternative will fix this. No amount of proactive work from users will change Google’s mind on this.
I don’t get it, how tf they gonna stop you on phones that already exist?
A. You can disable any new OS or device updates from Google.
B. You can keep your existing phone on Android 16 or prior (hell, I’m on 12)
C. Use alt OS like Graphene, Lineage, Iodé, /e/OS, CalyxOS (they’re back!!), etc
D. Sign out of Google on your phone, install F-Droid or something from APK package on FF derived browser.
I’m sure on brands new devices with that patch, plus anyone who doesn’t disable the auto updates will be blocked. But no way no how can Google stop us all!! 🖕🖕🏻🖕🏿🖕🏼
I think the goal is to push it silently as a Google system service, rather than wait for manufacturers to ship an OS or app store update.
There’s a real possibility your phone already has Android Developer Verifier installed and sitting dormant until enforcement begins.
You can check for the package now:
“com.google.android.verifier”
If it’s there…well…
Try to uninstall it with ADB if it’s already installed on ya phone, i use ShizuTools personally
Yep, just reinstall the OS so that’s removed, and you’re unimpacted. Easy.
Like herpes, it comes back :) The second you connect to WiFi or mobile data…
If you want to avoid it - for good - you need to install CFW. Or you need to play whackamole with firewalls. But those come with other issues.
Big evil knows what they’re doing - switching it off and on again won’t fool em for long (if at all) :(
No, it doesn’t come back. Google will not be installed by default.
I’ve never had it on my phone because I never add gapps when installing Android.
Well sure, if you’re installing CFW or aosp and you don’t need the ever increasing cruft that seems to rely on Play store authentication. Never install GApps, done.
Some folks (not you or I) need to access play store to install their apps (I think even WhatsApp and Signal need it now; I couldn’t install it on my phone), 2FA, transport apps, bank apps etc.
Catch 22 for them.
- degoogled phone…but can’t install all the apps they need
- Google ecosystem… but at whims of Google.
Nah, and when this deadline hits, we’ll see even more people forced to remove gapps.
And there will be a larger user base that won’t be able to use that cruft shady apps that depend on it
let’s get real…google isn’t going to stop. why would they? there’s zero repercussions for their aggressive strategy against their own consumers.
so stop using their products. cut google out, entirely.
I guess at a certain point I just stop using electronics.
That’s how big tech wins. Complete monopoly.
Monopoly over me not paying for their stuff? I guess. Seems more like not supporting them to me. If they errode my choice then I make the only choice that gives me agency. I don’t give them my money.
