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I await the opinions of eastern europeans that actually live with them daily, that would be real information
There literally was a post about Romani like a month ago full of Europeans. The had nothing good to say. And knowing a few things about a few things, the details wasn’t just something made up.
Yea I know. I have hands-on daily experience…
Hey, I did grow up in the country. It’s bad, but not simply “we’re all racists” bad.
Roma people have communities that are regressive and extremely poor. People trying to break out are often disowned, you can hear testimonies from Roma people who went to university that their families consider them traitors, to the point they get beaten to the brink of death if they visit home.
On top of this, tenant laws are basically not enforced, which is a miserable experience on both sides. A tenant whose deposit has been stolen by a landlord and a landlord trying to evict a tenant for not paying rent and moving in 30 people can both wait 6-10 years for a ruling.
I can tell you more, but these are the biggest points to make.
Yep. Exactly as described.
In elementary school I had two classmates who were Roma. One was a chill dude, the other was unhinged and dropped out.
Aside from them I also saw dozens of Roma kids my age around town who would just play or cause mischief all day, never went to school, and almost never had any positive relations with non-Roma kids.
From what I’ve seen, efforts to integrate Roma into broader society have been very lackluster, and on the opposite side, most Roma look down on and do not want to integrate into broader society.
Exactly as described.
The issue is on both sides… But if I were in power, I’d have no goddamn clue what to do with the Roma. Seems an impossible task.
There is no solution other than wait and hope for very slow integration. The governments try to manage the situation by offering minimal services. Lynchings still happen where the situation is unmanageable. That’s it. Wait and hope for the best.
I’m afraid posting the truth will get you downvoted into oblivion.
Yea, it will. People have no idea. They think it’s a similar situation to living with black people in America. It is not, not by a long shot. I’ve been around both and I was only afraid to live next to one.
And this justifies discrimination based on race? Because boy howdy, do I have news about how discrimination against black people was justified.
And this justifies discrimination based on race?
When it’s about choosing a place to live with my family you’re goddamn right it does.
I can not fathom raising a child in the place where I currently live, next to them. My child would learn the most vile words and risk getting beaten just for being too innocent the second they step outside.
You know when else this discrimination would be justified? In hospitals, where a screaming Roma guy that threatens the nurses constantly, yelling and getting in the way of staff, gets the attention on his friend with a mild fever while an innocent dies of blood loss in the same room. They take advantage of our free urgent care while the people that fund said urgent care die next to them. The distinction between them and everyone else is that they bring their entire extended family to threaten the staff into submission. And, since they’re not integrated into society…they don’t actually fund that urgent care. I know nurses. Nobody does that, ever, except them, according to nurses and lab workers. Ever seen someone busting into a lab? Our nurses have. It’s always the Roma, according to them.
In other contexts, no, it’s not justified, at least not in general.
Your take is good tho… We need to give them a chance, but it is so, so fucking tiring and hard not to be racist against them…
to them … give them
“In hospitals, where a screaming [Person] that threatens the nurses constantly, yelling and getting in the way of staff, gets the attention on his friend with a mild fever while an innocent dies of blood loss in the same room.” would be better stated.
There does not exist a “them” also no “they”. “distinction between them and everyone else is” -> there is no distinction. Rules are for all no matter who someone thinks they “belong to”. I also know nurses and i know a lot of people do stupid thing similar and it doesn’t matter who they are but what rules are there and who are breaking them. It’s never a whole group of people that do not even know each other. To talk about individual, no matter how many they are, and stating all of them would do x or behave like y is racism imho. Talking about the groups does not help the goal but talking about rules, which matter, which need to change etc. and talking about actions and how they can be prevented without misjudging on a general group that can discriminate would be much better. Should we prevent a whole family going into care if one needs help or should we only ban someone who is arbitrary example over 1,73m or has only 100 freckles?
Doesn’t seem to me like he was saying all Roma people are doing these things. What he said is that the only people who do such things are Roma.
I work in a hospital and can confirm that I do see such things happening every week, and that the only people I’ve seen behaving that way are Roma. In the hospital it is quite a problem to handle.
This does not imply all Roma people do such things, but it can be considered a problem generated by Roma people since they are the only people doing such things.
I know many heroin addicts, most of them are great people. Would it be discriminatory to say that a city has a problem with heroin addicts if they started finding a bunch of syringes in kids parks? Indeed, most addicts are responsible and wouldn’t leave syringes in such places, but the problem is there and is caused by people who are heroin addicts.
This is why I usually don’t talk about this kind of thing. It’s as if you didn’t even read what I said. You skimmed 2 words, thought “that’s racism”, then replied.
You are wrong, i read your text completely and you obviously did not read what i wrote as otherwise you would have never came to the conclusion that i skimmed 2 words. Your whole text talks about “them” and “they” which is imho racism and fits the article which states
Bori Simonovits, however, noted that when they asked Hungarians to justify their views on discrimination, many began their sentences with “I’m not racist, but…,” only to follow that up with statements that fully embodied the concept of racism.
Most who don’t want to see that those views are racism usually don’t talk about it, because they don’t want to confront that it is racist and wrong. To be a bit more precise and not to try to go aggressively against you, it is prejudice which everyone will encounter from time to time, but you should realize that you cannot say things about a whole “group” of people. The sentiment to put everyone into a category, might help evolutionary, but is wrong. Just think about Families and especially their Kids. Can’t those change, can’t they be completely different from each other, even so they both say they are belonging to Group XYZ?
Indicating problematic behaviors is right and correct but allocating to every “member of a group” is wrong and unhelpful.
Even your remarks
In other contexts, no, it’s not justified, at least not in general. Your take is good tho… We need to give them a chance, but it is so, so fucking tiring and hard not to be racist against them…
Don’t change that. You are still talking about them and vaguely about “In other contexts”. No its never justified. Also no it’s not hard to not be racist against anyone and with some training it comes natural, if you want it.
Spent quite some time at my grandmas growing up in hungary. I remember how that otherwise sweet and openminded lady started to hold my hand so hard that it hurt when she saw sinti/roma on the street. She really thought they would kidnap me in broad daylight on the street. But from what i was told much later my grand-grandfather was beaten to a cripple by sinti/roma because he caught them stealing from his field. But idk how true that story is.
As an adult my personal experience is that eastern europeans are often just pretty fucking racist in everyday life and they dont even recognize the lowkey racist shit they say when they’re in a more progressive(as shitty as this sounds) setting.
People don’t want to understand that the ones who are dangerous are those who set themselves apart and have their own culture and traditions, a different concept on the meaning of property and strong clan type of belonging and thinking. The conflicts are as much with each other as with the local laws.
Bleeding hearts don’t want to accept that in this case, stealing as needed or wanted is a matter of glory and pride. It’s something worthwhile for them.
To them specifically as individuals or fractured groups within the entire collective of what it means to be roma, the rest of us are only seen as a source of wealth. Anything outside the clans isn’t an equal and doesn’t have rights, while among the clans respect is earned through wealth amassed and the threat of violence.
If anyone doesn’t understand that type of thinking and goes anywhere near such a clan’s enclave/territory, they will quite likely lose their life. It is that dangerous. It is that scary. It’s not propaganda, it’s not mindless fear. The Roma people are not a single entity and most are regular people who just want to live their lives in peace. But the roma clans are comparable to amateur Mexican cartels in scope of threat and danger to the rest of Roma people and others alike.
There is a lot of racism against them, but it’s not without cause. At its base is genuine fear, created, exacerbated and maintained by the few who take their differences to extreme and adore this state of separation on both sides of the electrified fence.
Ps: That probably did happen to your great-grandfather as there were a lot of issues during that time period and a lot of instigators. It wasn’t uncommon as those kind of stories happened or were spread (intentionally) by word of mouth almost everywhere. Thefts did happen and so did violence, but who started them and who kept it going remains up for debate. Profiteers have existed since the dawn of civilization, much to the suffering of innocents.
Exactly. The racism is still wrong, because the majority of ethnic Roma do not follow that life, but the fear is not baseless.
It’s like being cautious of men if you’re a woman alone at night; of course they aren’t all going to assault you, but if you don’t treat them with a bit of caution, you are at more risk.
ffs my mother says the same thing about black people and anyone under 18
About 12 years ago I was buying a property in Hungary. During the search multiple sellers, many locations in Hungary, told me “this is a very good area, there are no Roma here”
fucking wild hearing that once, let alone 5 or 6 times.
In the long run, is it possible to have conflicting cultures coexist or does Europe have to unite everybody with some form of pop culture?
I think global warming and clima migration will lead to entire countries moving to Europe. Those people want to maintain their cultures which will be as different as Roma culture or more so. How can we give them space to maintain their identities?
I think they should go to the homes of billionnaires first.
Billionnaires polluted the world. It’s only fair if they themselves face their own consequences.
Where do they live? In Billionaire land? Europe has plenty of them.
City Billionaires 
New York City123 
Moscow90 
Hong Kong72 
London71 
Beijing68 
Mumbai67 
Singapore60 San Francisco58 Shanghai58 Los Angeles56 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_number_of_billionaires
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_billionaires
Germany is number 4, Italy 6, France 13, Sweden 14.
That’s 400 billionaires compared to China’s 539. Add the other European countries and Europe is second or third. The list above makes it seem like they don’t live in Europe.
Antizyganism is officially sanctioned in much of eastern Europe. A few decades ago, in either Romania or Bulgaria (IIRC), a nationalist government relocated all Roma residents to a specific set of apartment blocks, moving non-Roma residents out to make room, and then designated the grounds of the blocks to be a new municipal landfill.
That’s horrible and I wish I found it surprising
How do they know from a message?
It’s actually a really good article that’s very well researched and goes over much more than just that …
You just have to click the link
When you let out, it makes sense to be a bit racist and misogynistic.
