I’ve been wondering this for years now. Sci fi and even actual scientific speculation tends to assume aliens would be way ahead of us in terms of technology because their planets may have been formed earlier. I don’t think time alone matters. If they don’t have resources, if fhey don’t evolve the same way, if they have more difficulties in doing shit due to any number of reasons… They could be far less advanced than us. Maybe nobody in the entire universe has figured out how to realistically travel between stars yet. Maybe we are the only ones who have even managed to get off our rock.
There’s also the Dark Forest hypothesis - the idea that maybe many alien civilizations exist out there but stay silent because revealing themselves would make them targets/prey to a more high-tech hostile civilization.
I’d imagine any intelligent alien life form would be intelligent enough to realize that they’ve reached a point at which they can simply life in a sustained utopia. Heal the planet, work less, fill time with hobbies and pursuits. Humans have this flaw, and it’s that the mentally ill squander the world’s wealth and use it for dick-measuring contests. A small minority of us will kill their own mother for a job promotion, and the people at the very top want to squander it all so they see another 0 in their bank account, or outrace the other 7 megabillionaires to the dick-measuring contest on Mars. I could only hope aliens aren’t as as stupid. We could just litter the earth with trees, solar panels, 2 br condos, and hammocks, and have AI work for us, but nope. Every single die shrink leads to more transistor density and never any power efficiency because big numbers are better for shareholders. They sold us downstream. If any alien contacts us or leaves a trace they’re most likely just as dangerous to our survival as we are. Space conquistadors
It’s not convincing because it’s impossible to hide. You always produce waste heat which would be visible (if you use 100W of solar power, you dissipate 100W in deep infra red into space)
We would expect to see stars putting out an amount of energy for a bright star, but in deep IR as they’re wrapped in Dyson spheres or swarms
That’s ascribing human motivations to non-humans. They could be fundamentally non-curious, only using their relative intelligence to solve actual problems in their environment rather than pushing for “what if?”.
If you have a species that doesn’t feel a drive to explore they would never leave the place they evolved, then they would be at high risk of extinction when their climate changed with plate tectonics
And perhaps it’s the drive to explore that has humans exploring ideas
I wasn’t talking about need or ability, only exposing themselves to extra risk, failing to discover important discoveries because they don’t explore ideas. I’m sure I wasn’t perfectly clear.
Bivalves such as mussels are aware of many stimuli but are generally incapable of safely relocating making them one of the incredibly few exceptions to the rule.
I would generally assume any alien lifeform we encounter would be closer to humans than bivalves.
When you look at us, the Earth, life has formed almost immediately after the conditions where given. On top of that the universe itself isn’t even that old. There is a good chance, that Fermi was right but we are just the first ones.
… which makes me think that whatever or whoever designed us had some work left to do. You left in some bugs buddy.
There’s also a theory that we’re too late, and that our existence is like the remaining microbes in a puddle of water in a desert.
The universe used to be lukewarm with conditions for life to exist everywhere, until it expanded and started cooling.
On a positive note, this could also mean that life lies dormant everywhere just waiting for the right conditions, so that anywhere that has the right conditions also has life.
Probabilistically, the early bird theory is unlikely. If development of life were to follow a normal distribution, it’d be highly improbable that we’d be in the tails as opposed to the main body.
I wonder what another being would need of us if it was already able to travel through the vacuum of space while self-sustaining. We’re basically doing that right now anyway.
They’d want our coconuts, I bet. They’re pretty cool, I bet aliens don’t have coconuts. They might have some cool alien fruit to trade for coconuts. Or weed.
Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle’s Footfall had that as a plot point. The youth of the alien invaders who were born on the ship and had never lived on a planet disagreed with the others about invading Earth as the stuff they need can more easily be found on Saturn’s moons
I’ve been wondering this for years now. Sci fi and even actual scientific speculation tends to assume aliens would be way ahead of us in terms of technology because their planets may have been formed earlier. I don’t think time alone matters. If they don’t have resources, if fhey don’t evolve the same way, if they have more difficulties in doing shit due to any number of reasons… They could be far less advanced than us. Maybe nobody in the entire universe has figured out how to realistically travel between stars yet. Maybe we are the only ones who have even managed to get off our rock.
This is just arrogance.
We have only been announcing our intelligence for 100 years. It takes 100,000 years just to cross our galaxy. No-one knows we are here yet.
There’s also the Dark Forest hypothesis - the idea that maybe many alien civilizations exist out there but stay silent because revealing themselves would make them targets/prey to a more high-tech hostile civilization.
3 body problem is a good book for thought experiments, but it didn’t really discuss the arguments against the dark forest hypothesis
assumes universal hostility.
Interstellar warfare is protracted and impractical.
Ignores potential cooperation and ethical diversity.
assumes aliens think like humans
I’d imagine any intelligent alien life form would be intelligent enough to realize that they’ve reached a point at which they can simply life in a sustained utopia. Heal the planet, work less, fill time with hobbies and pursuits. Humans have this flaw, and it’s that the mentally ill squander the world’s wealth and use it for dick-measuring contests. A small minority of us will kill their own mother for a job promotion, and the people at the very top want to squander it all so they see another 0 in their bank account, or outrace the other 7 megabillionaires to the dick-measuring contest on Mars. I could only hope aliens aren’t as as stupid. We could just litter the earth with trees, solar panels, 2 br condos, and hammocks, and have AI work for us, but nope. Every single die shrink leads to more transistor density and never any power efficiency because big numbers are better for shareholders. They sold us downstream. If any alien contacts us or leaves a trace they’re most likely just as dangerous to our survival as we are. Space conquistadors
It’s not convincing because it’s impossible to hide. You always produce waste heat which would be visible (if you use 100W of solar power, you dissipate 100W in deep infra red into space)
We would expect to see stars putting out an amount of energy for a bright star, but in deep IR as they’re wrapped in Dyson spheres or swarms
If you have a sun nearby then will someone notice the lag?
Maybe they just don’t want to leave their planet because it’s dope af
Some humans want to travel even when they’re perfectly happy.
That’s ascribing human motivations to non-humans. They could be fundamentally non-curious, only using their relative intelligence to solve actual problems in their environment rather than pushing for “what if?”.
If you have a species that doesn’t feel a drive to explore they would never leave the place they evolved, then they would be at high risk of extinction when their climate changed with plate tectonics
And perhaps it’s the drive to explore that has humans exploring ideas
Maybe you need to be like us to get into space
Most people don’t feel the need to kill someone, but if their life depended on it, they’d kill in self-defense.
You’re conflating the “need” with the “ability”.
I wasn’t talking about need or ability, only exposing themselves to extra risk, failing to discover important discoveries because they don’t explore ideas. I’m sure I wasn’t perfectly clear.
Um. The desire to explore is pretty innate to all life. Not just humans.
How much “exploring” do sedentary lifeforms (plants, mussels, etc) really get up to?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorsal_root_ganglion
Bivalves such as mussels are aware of many stimuli but are generally incapable of safely relocating making them one of the incredibly few exceptions to the rule.
I would generally assume any alien lifeform we encounter would be closer to humans than bivalves.
There still is the „Early Bird Theory“.
When you look at us, the Earth, life has formed almost immediately after the conditions where given. On top of that the universe itself isn’t even that old. There is a good chance, that Fermi was right but we are just the first ones.
… which makes me think that whatever or whoever designed us had some work left to do. You left in some bugs buddy.
There’s also a theory that we’re too late, and that our existence is like the remaining microbes in a puddle of water in a desert.
The universe used to be lukewarm with conditions for life to exist everywhere, until it expanded and started cooling.
On a positive note, this could also mean that life lies dormant everywhere just waiting for the right conditions, so that anywhere that has the right conditions also has life.
Probabilistically, the early bird theory is unlikely. If development of life were to follow a normal distribution, it’d be highly improbable that we’d be in the tails as opposed to the main body.
I wonder what another being would need of us if it was already able to travel through the vacuum of space while self-sustaining. We’re basically doing that right now anyway.
They’d want our coconuts, I bet. They’re pretty cool, I bet aliens don’t have coconuts. They might have some cool alien fruit to trade for coconuts. Or weed.
alien pointing at a coconut tree
Look, m’lord! Horses!
Coconuts are mammals
Poetry, fashion, art, exotic pets.
Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle’s Footfall had that as a plot point. The youth of the alien invaders who were born on the ship and had never lived on a planet disagreed with the others about invading Earth as the stuff they need can more easily be found on Saturn’s moons