Thoughts?
Is this imperialism by China, a country which is supposed to be left-wing? Leftists are normally anti-imperialism. Wouldn’t it be better to let Taiwan democratically decide whether they want to be part of China or not?
Lol calling China Leftist isn’t quite the thing. They are technically “communist” but no more so than the National Socialist German Workers’ Party was socialist.
China isn’t technically communist. The Communist Party of China is technically communist in ideology. They have implemented a type of a mixed state that has both socialist and capitalist parts, decently described by the term - socialist market economy. Or socialism with Chinese characteristics as it’s been called in the past. Why socialism? Because the socialist part controls the capitalist part of the economy. Why socialist? Because it’s controlled by the CPC/CCP which has over 100M members and growing, which means the wider society is decently represented within the party that controls the state.
A horse can call itself a duck, but that doesn’t make it a duck; it’s still a horse.
Likewise, a country that calls itself communist while practicing capitalism under a hierarchical ruling party isn’t communist. Even if every member of the CCP had equal say in the country’s policies and direction, 8% of the total population is far from representing the working class, let alone being led by them.
They’re not communist, correct. They’re capitalist.
8% of the total population is far from representing the working class, let alone being led by them.
Yup, it can and it should be much larger. I saw a chart showing membership growth of 2-3% per year. That said even at the present numbers it means every third family or so has a party member.
Again, China isn’t calling itself communist. And I don’t think they’re. That said capital is subordinate to state control, which is subordinate to an org that most people can participate in, so personally I grant them the socialist (market economy) label that they tend to use. But I do understand why not everyone does.
To be clear, if you’re not communist, it doesn’t mean you’re capitalist. There’s a lot in between and it’s often a matter of degree of one thing or another. Feudalism didn’t turn into capitalism the moment the fist capitalist firm formed. It transitioned to capitalism as more and more production became capitalist, at some point becoming the dominant mode of production.
socialism with Chinese characteristics
It’s literally the same functional mechanics as free market capitalization EXCEPT that the state owns a part of every company. The people don’t. The state does. And only uses it for authoritarian control, which is the Chinese characteristic. China is functionally a capitalist market with state owned companies.
If China controlled the 3rd party companies in the country then maybe it could be construed as socialist but they own nothing about Apple or NVidia yet billions of dollars flow through them. China is an open market that uses subsidies to offset poor management in those companies. Basically the same thing America did to failing companies in 2008 (looking at you GM).
China has a large fully state-owned sector which tends to operate key industries. They also have outsized control over private firms because the banks doling out capital are state-owned. It’s how they can effectively direct the private sector to build EVs, chips or whatever other strategic commodity is desired, in addition to having partial ownership in large private firms. Yes Apple and NVIDIA aren’t state-owned. You can read about the state owned sector and how it affects the economy. The structure is very differrnt than the US today. It resembles somewhat FDR’s US in the 1940s but with even more state control and direction.
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Yeah, and no wonder why hardline Maoists hate Mainland China for what it is now, completely deviant from Maoism and becoming the very enemy they tried to destroy.
China is a socialist country, and a developing country as well. China belongs to the Third World. Consistently following Chairman Mao’s teachings, the Chinese Government and people firmly support all oppressed peoples and oppressed nations in their struggle to win or defend national independence, develop the national economy and oppose colonialism, imperialism and hegemonism. This is our bounden internationalist duty. China is not a superpower, nor will she ever seek to be one.
What is a superpower? A superpower is an imperialist country which everywhere subjects other countries to its aggression, interference, control, subversion or plunder and strives for world hegemony. If capitalism is restored in a big socialist country, it will inevitably become a superpower. The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, which has been carried out in China in recent years, and the campaign of criticizing Lin Piao and Confucius now under way throughout China, are both aimed at preventing capitalist restoration and ensuring that socialist China will never change her colour and will always stand by the oppressed peoples and oppressed nations.
If one day China should change her colour and turn into a superpower, if she too should play the tyrant in the world, and everywhere subject others to her bullying, aggression and exploitation, the people of the world should identify her as social-imperialism, expose it, oppose it and work together with the Chinese people to overthrow it.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/deng-xiaoping/1974/04/10.htm
Also, fuck the 996 System.
Alternative headline:
China’s authoritarian leader Xi Jinping reiterates intent to subjugate neighboring country Taiwan in New Year’s Eve speech.
It’s not a neighbouring country, it’s the same country. Ask Taiwan.
Okay, I looked at what the current President of Taiwan has to say. He says this:
Taiwan is already a sovereign, independent country called the Republic of China.
That’s not the same as the PRC.
archive.is seems to be down right now.
The People’s Republic of China and the Republic of China are two different governments that both claim sovereignty over mainland China and Taiwan.
They both want to unite China, but only one of them is in the position to do it.
Internal to Taiwan, there are parties that support reunification and support independence (opposing views), but Taiwan has not yet reneged on its claim of mainland China.
Their president reneged it like 30+ years ago but that doesn’t mean much because it’s basically baked into their constitution. Changing the constitution to reflect their real borders would require triggering a vote and a bunch of formal processes that would absolutely instigate a conflict with the PRC.
Nobody wants that, including the voting population. Thus you see a milquetoast shuffling between independence and reunification parties in order to maintain the status quo (independence for all practical purposes) without being too radical for Beijing. In terms of polling:
- 48.9% are pro-[eventual]-independence
- 11.8% are pro-unification
- 26.9% want status quo
And when forced out of status quo, independence support jumps to out 60%. But for now they’re caught in a Catch-22 that allows the PRC to spit out this propaganda that people gobble up.
Good background, thanks. Ya, catch 22 is a good way to put it… It makes it tough for other countries to recognize both PRC and ROC without offending PRC.
As @stickly@lemmy.world pointed out, polling shows that Taiwanese people mostly want the status quo (de facto independence of Taiwan from the PRC) or they lean towards formally declaring independence.
As for Taiwan claiming sovereignty over China, maybe that is still in their constitution, I don’t know. But I’m pretty sure modern Taiwanese leaders are not asserting this claim. Instead they seek to preserve the status quo, where Taiwan is de facto independent.
Yes, it is imperialism. Also, China has an authoritarian state controlled by a privileged ruling class and is therefore far-right.
Invading Taiwan without damaging the things that make it valuable seems tough.
They don’t care about damaging things now.
Almost all of TSMC’s output is now powering US’ Stargate AI project. They also have their own fabs, they have equivalent to TSMC fabs (from stolen TSMC research) in larger numbers - the only reason we don’t see it flooding the market here in the west is that TSMC got injunctions against all the Chinese fabs selling 7nm and smaller chips.
If TSMC is gone and Intel+Samsung can’t keep up, then those injunctions are going to disappear pretty quickly to keep the economy rolling.
TSMC is no longer a card Taiwan holds, largely due to corporate greed.
The latest info we have says they don’t have the equivalent high end chip prod yet but they’re closing in. What you’re describing would likely be the reality within several years. That said I think it’s not in China’s interest to take Taiwan by force since they’d have to live with it. It’ll also do enormous damage to their soft power.
TSMC was never a card. China has been wanting Taiwan since before TSMC exists. Taiwan is in a strategic geographic location that makes it difficult to project its navy. It’s the same reason the US controls Hawaii, Midway, Guam, and many other seemingly useless pacific islands in the middle of nowhere.
Famously what happened during German unification
Except that was a peaceful process, not an invasion/annexation. Because part of Taiwan’s strategic defense policy is “we will melt our chip fabs to slag if the PRC invades”. Thus, they hold a gun to the head of pretty much all of the most advanced chip fabrication in the world, which most of the rest of the world has a vested interest in keeping working.
Except that was a peaceful process, not an invasion/annexation
The only invasion I’m seeing is US Navy vessels encircling the island and threatening their economy.
they hold a gun to the head of pretty much all of the most advanced chip fabrication in the world
That’s been the American line for going on ten years. But the real gun has always been the Pacific Fleet, threatening to repeat the crimes of Vietnam on Chinese civilians, much like they did in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and now Venezuela and Nigeria.
The only invasion I’m seeing is US Navy vessels encircling the island and threatening their economy.
Saying this on the same day that Chinese warships encircled Taiwan.
Guy who has never seen a world map
Wtf are you talking about? Imperialist China just finished encircling Taiwan in a “defense exercise”
The only invasion I’m seeing is US Navy vessels encircling the island and threatening their economy.
I must be going colorblind because those ships are flying a very red American flag…
repeat the crimes of Vietnam on Chinese civilians, much like they did in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and now Venezuela and Nigeria
Lol wtf? Unless you really bought dubya’s WMD bullshit, one of these countries is not like the others… I really doubt that any Chinese civilian on Chinese soil is going to get so much as a dirty look from any US armed forces…
I must be going colorblind because those ships are flying a very red American flag…
You’re spitting distance from the coast of Fujain. I gotta wonder why you’d expect to see an American warship on the Chinese coastline.
Ticonderoga-class guided-missile cruisers USS Antietam (CG 54) and USS Chancellorsville (CG 62) are conducting a routine Taiwan Strait transit August 28 (local time) through waters where high seas freedoms of navigation and overflight apply in accordance with international law.
Crazy how it’s international waters when an American warship is in them.
I really doubt that any Chinese civilian on Chinese soil is going to get so much as a dirty look from any US armed forces…
Crazy how it’s international waters when an American warship is in them.
Never said shit about it being international waters or claimed the US Navy was never there, we were talking about encircling Taiwan which the PRC literally just did. I hope you have the same decorum about US ships totally not practicing invasions of Mexico (😉). It’s right over the border after all.
Come on champ, you can do better than that. We’re talking about big scary warships and military bases and all you can link me is some run of the mill espionage shit? And it’s on Wikipedia no less, I’m gonna need to revoke your tankie card.
You’re name dropping Iraq and Afghanistan and Vietnam, I need a chance of a military occupation or some Hueys blaring CCR. Give me a real military threat that requires a show of force on this puny island. If flimsy proxy wars counted the USA would be the #1 most righteous belligerent in every conflict from 1945 onward with how much the KGB/GRU tickled them.
we were talking about encircling Taiwan which the PRC
How do Chinese ships depart from Fujain without encircling Taiwan? Literally look at your own maps. They’re neighbors.
Might as well declare Australia is encircling New Zealand.
Are these international waters or aren’t they? Do ships have right of passage or don’t they? Or is it your belief that Taiwanese waters are American territory?
Come on champ, you can do better than that.
You want to play at denialism then scream about foreign aggression. No wonder nobody takes your foreign policy seriously anymore
You think the USA is going to start an aggressive boots-on-ground assault on China?
Wouldn’t be the first time
China is a nuclear power. With a much larger population than the USA. What exactly do you imagine the hypothetical war-goals would be here?
Dude is high on his own supply. China is simultaneously the weakest and strongest global power depending on what argument needs to be made
China hasn’t exerted any political authority over Taiwan in 80 years and Taiwan declared itself a separate nation long ago, supported by the will of the people of Taiwan. Anything else is the will of a conqueror.
I wonder how many people living in Taiwan were alive back when China controlled it. Probably 90% + of the population has never known anything but independent Taiwan
100%, because Taiwan was in the Japanese Empire from 1895 to 1945, and was pretty much independent from 1945 to the KMT arrival in 1948.
Did they declare that tho? I thought they viewed themselves as the legitimate government of all China.
No, not really. It’s still in the constitution since the 1940s only because changing it would provoke a military reaction from China. Nobody actually believes it, not since CKS died in the 70s.
You are correct but you have less upvotes so you are wrong
That seems to be back in vogue these days.
China, a country which is supposed to be left-wing
Uhh, citation needed? Communism by name only does not a left wing country make
So it’s never left unless things work perfectly fine? It’s always fake left? China’s government control of the economy is very very lefty.
I’m left myself, but this easy escape by some left people really annoys me. Things can only improve if one acknowledges the mistakes and flaws.
I mean it’s the same reason the Nazis weren’t socialist despite being the national socialist party. It’s in name only. I don’t see a single way in which China is making steps towards becoming a stateless, classless, moneyless society.
Nazis were national-socialists, the contradiction was in the name already. But they also had socialists as main enemies.
China is ruled by the communist party who still issues vast left literature. If China is not left, no country is left or ever will, as there are no perfect countries and that seems to be the condition number one to count as real left.
Isn’t it just such a fucking coincidence you have all these assholes coming to the same conclusions at the same time?
Putin invaded Ukraine and would love to Hitler his way across Europe in the name of “unity.”
Trump invades Venezuela, yet pretends to be an antiwar isolationist only taking necessary action to protect the U.S. from the flow of fentanyl (which has never been coming from Venezuela, but why let facts get in the way of a shitty narrative).
Now China will invade Taiwan and the U.S. will refuse to get involved because Trump is totally an “isolationist.” (At least when it comes to other continents).
Yep. Totally a coincidence and not a shared strategy for a global fascist takeover by a new axis of evil.
West Taiwan: baby let’s get back together!
Taiwan: no! you were an asshole to me!
West Taiwan: I wasn’t asking.
Taiwan: this is what I’m fucking talking about!
The break-up was a little different… Chiang Kai Shek was just as much of a monster as Mao. He was just a capitalist monster so the west supported him.
He was just as much of a monster after he was driven off of the mainland.
He and Reverend Moon directly funded literal Nazi death squads in South America.
But that fucker is dead, and Taiwan is a functional democracy, unlike the mainland.
They don’t want to “unify”, they can see what happens to places China “unifies” with.
This is a declaration of war IMO. By one old dude against the whole world order (the international laws).
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I’m not excusing the USA, two bad does not make right.
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As an American I’m happy to see China kept in its place until it can compete with America on the human rights it gives its citizens. America might exercise ill-acquired and unethical hegemony over the world at times but apart from maybe the EU theres not another superpower candidate I’d trust more with that hegemony.
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Oh, same! Yeah we’ve got a lot to do to fix this country, for sure. Kind of exciting to know we have the opportunity to fix how we want it considering the unprecedented dysfunction
Pretty sure tawain ain’t interested in being absorbed back by China.
Yeah, no shit. “Reunify” is a euphemism.
Taiwan is too strategically important to the United States and Taiwan two difficult an invasion target for this to happen.
It’s just political posturing.
The long game of Beijing politics is to just be nice to Taiwan while Americans grow increasingly unhinged.
Yup. The trends of rising standard of living in China plus the stagnation and self-destruction of the US are both pointing to closer ties between Taiwan and China over the long term - over the coming decades. Even today the majority in Taiwan prefers status quo and not independence. There’s pro-idependence and pro-unification minorities. Besides, I don’t think the Chinese want to deal with a separatist population and all the instability that causes, which would imevitaby follow if they annex by force.
The majority in Taiwan have always preferred status quo. That’s what happens when you border a much larger neighbour that would see any overt move to officially declare independence (as in rebrand as Taiwan officially) as justification to invade.
That’s just the Taiwanese being self-aware to notice large power disparities and not wanting to rock the boat. Actual unification support with China polls about in the 10-15%. Lower than the “move to independence” bloc.
No disagreement. I just think that there’s a good chance for things to move in the unification direction because of these economic trends over the long haul. Might not happen that way. There’s probably also a good chance to stay status quo for decades. Independece is very unlikely I think because the potential countries to recognize Taiwan are critically dependent on China in various ways, and declining in economic power.
Not sure how threatening forceful unification every few months comes under “being nice”.
Liberals will be in the middle of a bombing run on Venezuela and stop to complain about Chinese aggression
I don’t at all like, nor agree with the current USA administration rhetoric or potential plans towards Venezuela - but that doesn’t have any relevance whatsoever to Chinese aggression and antagonism towards Taiwan, nor the fact that the Taiwanese - from their perspective - have way more to fear from China than the USA.
Two things can be bad.
Posturing plus demonstrating they can blockade Taiwan in case the US decides to send the cavalry stationed close by.
E: BTW the US and TSMC are continually working to diminish Taiwan’s stratrgic importance to the US by building fab capacity in the US.
it really sucks for the 90%+ of Taiwanese people who don’t want to become part of China
WW3 all the imperialists are acting at once
Now is the perfect time for them to do it, I can see why! America may not even respond.
Yes, I know we are an ally and we’re supposed to immediately go to war. So what? We promised to defend Ukraine from Russia, too. Look what happened.
Japan has openly vowed to defend Taiwan if China invades.
Japan is but a USA lapdog. They won’t do anything that would displease their master.
I don’t know about that. Most of the world isn’t happy with the US right now. They may have been the case 10 or 15 years ago.
I don’t know about that.
Well… current PM of Japan self-identifies as Trumpist.
As a side note, she also admires Margaret Tatcher. And also has complimented Hitler’s policies.
Well that sounds “fun”
How will that stop China? Japan’s military is very limited (by design).
The perfect time is in 10 years when China is so technological advanced and culturally leading that the majority wants to join voluntarily.
As it is now, I don’t think there would be any armed resistance to China without American opposition.
China is already backing Russia though, the safer course would be to just wait it out until the dollar collapses. On the other hand, such a war may be the last straw on the camel’s back for the USA.
There is an expression in science that needs to be used more in polysci 'all models are wrong" The right wing vs left wing political spectrum is a model of political ideologies and a very simplistic one at that. It is also used interchangeably for fundamentally different political tenants. Large government-small government, authoritarian - libertarian, capitalist - socialist. Models are only as good as their ability to predict reality and they are always wrong, they are just simplified models of reality. The moment you are confused saying “but if this country is X-wing, why are they Y” You are either misunderstanding the model, misapplying the model, or are misunderstanding the actual value of a model.
The full expression is “all models are wrong, but some are useful”
The expression is often expanded to that, it is not an incomplete expression without though.
