• Glide@lemmy.ca
      80·
      15 days ago

      Of course it was. Of course Christianity took a line intended to protect children from abuse and “mistranslated” it to be homophobic.

      • Max@lemmy.world
        24·
        15 days ago

        Well it is also very important for Christians that molesting boys is just “oopsies” but not gay.

        • Asidonhopo@lemmy.worldEnglish
          10·
          15 days ago

          Considering how in the original Greek text of the New Testament the Apostles were all described as being between 10 and 19 years of age hanging out with 30-something year old Jesus, and how Jesus’ crucifixion was a result of him being caught in the middle of the night in the Garden of Gesthemane (Mark 14:51-52) with a naked boy, yeah I’d say they have a complicated relationship with gay molestation of the underage.

          Certainly not the mainstream view taught in church but classical philologist Dr. Ammon Hillman has the receipts.

        • MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world
          1·
          15 days ago

          It’s less about it being gay that’s the problem than the fact that it’s an unspeakably horrific crime.

          Intentionally covering for pedophiles, in my mind, removes any shred of credibility for the “moral guidance” offered by said organization. I was raised Catholic but I think even if I hadn’t become irreligious as I am now, I would still shun the Catholic church for a denomination less insanely corrupt and evil.

      • MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world
        2·
        15 days ago

        Can’t really pretend that it’s not interpreted that way by some Jewish people. Not Reformed but certainly among the Orthodox.

    • AxExRx@lemmy.world
      40·
      15 days ago

      Iirc, the hebrew word that gets translated to ‘lay’ is also a pretty suspect translation. Its only other usage in the OT (and our only other known context for it) is to describe a man pursuing his wife’s servant, and contextually, is more likely to mean ‘molest’ or ‘rape’ than to describe consensual sex.

      The 2 words translated to ‘man’ are also different- the first being ‘ish’ the second being ‘zachar’

      While both can generally refer to anyone male, ish can be used in the context of ‘anyone’, or ‘husband/ man of the house’, whereas Zachar is often used biblically to refer to young males, and /or subordinates.

      So put together, this passage is likely ‘nobody should be molesting boys,’ or ‘a master shouldn’t rape his servants or children’

    • Ellvix@lemmy.world
      7·
      15 days ago

      Unfortunately not mistranslated, but for sure another outdated thing to ignore. I heard it was probably discouraging people from joining a nearby cult thing in Egypt that had male male acts, which sounds like it was more about religious competition than homosexuality, but I’m no expert.

      • andros_rex@lemmy.world
        1·
        15 days ago

        You know that discussing the Bible is not the same as apologetics?

        I get religious trauma sucks, but the critical analysis of primary source texts from the ancient Near East has absolutely nothing to do with your shitty pastor giving you a hard time for being gay.

        I invite you to name a 9th century BCE society that fits whatever moral requirements you think are needed to make a culture worthy of historical study.

    • yermaw@sh.itjust.works
      6·
      15 days ago

      I need a few more verses like this in my arsenal. I don’t want people citing religious texts at me for how to live my life, Ive read like 5% of the/a christian bible and zero of the others. I don’t agree as a concept, might as well be quoting star wars at me, but if they insist on fighting with the book its nice to have ways to win with the book.

      • Asidonhopo@lemmy.worldEnglish
        8·
        15 days ago

        The modern translation is a fairytale but if you get into the original Greek bible texts and supporting and opposing texts from Greco-Roman civilization it paints a very interesting picture of the corruption of the ancient world into the situation we call Western Civilization today. Hopeful eras where humanity improved like the Renaissance and the American Revolutionary War were in large part due to study and reemergence of pre-Christian pagan ideas from Greek antiquity.

        • Rcklsabndn@sh.itjust.works
          5·
          15 days ago

          This sounds like interesting material.

          Any books out there that compare and contrast? I’m curious, but not enough to possess two different Bibles.

          • Asidonhopo@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            13 days ago

            Biblehub has a Greek text option and full translation of words if you want to dive in. Most of the ideas I picked up from Dr. Ammon Hillman who has a couple of books out from several years ago, you can find quite a few interviews with him online and he livestreams at least weekly. Quite a fertile field of study, the differences in Bible texts between English/Latin and the original Greek.

    • buttnugget@lemmy.worldBanned
      8·
      15 days ago

      I believe that line was originally written as “man shall not lie with boys” and is about pedophilia, not homosexuality.

    • MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world
      7·
      15 days ago

      And translation issues. Words and meaning can change a lot when something is translated. Leviticus went from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English (and most other modern languages of course).

  • glorkon@lemmy.world
    18·
    15 days ago

    Of course Christians are absolutely fine with people being gay.

    After all, they’re the ones down on their knees hoping for a man to come for the second time.

  • BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world
    8·
    15 days ago

    I’m a practicing Christian and go to church every week. I also think homophobes are shitheads who don’t deserve the love and mercy of God.

    The biblical scholar Walter Bruggeman wrote a great essay on the interpretation of homophobic biblical verses that is really good (https://outreach.faith/2022/09/walter-brueggemann-how-to-read-the-bible-on-homosexuality/).

    But also just plain old have some common sense that the people of the ancient world didn’t have the same insight we do into human attraction and sexuality, and we can grow and evolve and know better. Also, even if you don’t agree with people being queer, you also have the ability to shut your mouth about it and keep it to yourself, and be the loving Christian you profess to be no matter what your personal beliefs are, and you have no right to tell people who to love, period.

      • BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world
        1·
        14 days ago

        Everyone does, and we have some queer and trans congregants too. Our official position is that we welcome all queer people in every way. Actually a bunch of people at another church left and joined us because that church came out as non-affirming of queer people.

  • StinkyFingerItchyBum@lemmy.caEnglish
    7·
    15 days ago

    It is an interesting story, but I don’t think the Gay community is being helped by bibles quotes. Hateful people quote the bible to publicly justify their hate, but its not why they hate. The hate comes from within and will be justified in a million different ways.

    If you corrected all the bibles today, automagically, a new prophet will suddenly appear to reveal god’s wisdom to kill gays tomorrow and a new religion will be born.

    • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
      3·
      14 days ago

      however the Bible says that being gay is normal and cool.

      with a King having a gay lover and writing poetry that says “his love was greater than any woman”. and he’s still considered one of the greatest kings in the bible.

      King David, putting the Bi in Bible

    • lugal@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      1·
      14 days ago

      The joke is that the bible says they should be stoned as in having stones thrown at them, not the other meaning.

      Anyway, the people of biblical times didn’t have a concept of homosexuality so it doesn’t make sense to say they condemned it. They condemned male same sex activities as much as wearing clothes of different materials and many Christians come to the conclusion that both is fine. But if you have hatred in your heart, you will skip “love your neighbor” and select the few passages that can be interpreted hatefully.

      • FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca
        1·
        14 days ago

        I get the joke but I’m not sure the Bible actually says those words “a man who lays with a man should be stoned”. I know it says men shouldn’t lay with men.

        Edit: just googled Leviticus 20:13, it says they’ve committed an abomination and should die. It doesn’t say stoned.