- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
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Both cars support oppressive dictators, but one is cheaper, supports CarPlay / Android auto, and has actually buttons for things.
I am not sure you can say BYD supports a dictator per se, more like it exists in a state capitalist country where you exist at the behest of the dictator.
Elon actively pushed and spent money to get trump elected.
Well played sir, well played.
BYD cars don’t have very many buttons either. See here. They’re tablets on wheels too. I quite dislike BYD interiors.
True, but that thing is like a fighter jet compared to Telsa’s void of emptiness. 14 controls on the wheel (and they’re labeled), real controls for drive modes, there are basic climate controls on the center console, you can manually adjust fan orientation, etc.
It’s still overly reliant on touch, but I’d easily take that over a Telsa.
Meh. I would not take either. In fact I actually didn’t. I went to a showroom and got inside their EVs and PHEVs while looking for a car. My immediate reaction after sitting in the driver’s seat of their PHEV was “I don’t want to drive this”. Same thing with the pure EV. I’ll give you the wheel, but those A/C controls next to the “shifter” are touch surfaces instead of actual buttons, and they’re just as annoying and worthless as touchscreen controls. Which is sad because those cars have fantastic stats on paper and very competitive prices. Unfortunately most EVs on the market have fucking stupid interior designs. Very often you have to choose between affordable and well designed. Not very many that are both.
In the end I decided not to buy a new car at all. Still got my 2015 Leon.
I’m genuinely surprised people be ok with BYD on Lemmy. It’s authoritarian spyware, period. There are more options than these two - ww don’t have to choose the lesser evil.
Why would I give a fucking shit? Every new car is a piece of shit spy ware device that collects and sells your data. Honestly, I’d rather china have my data than a fucking capitalist company or America. At least china won’t do anything to me, our government is more of a threat to the average American than china is.
What a defeatist take.
Or… live in a place or advocate for a place where spyware cars arent a necessity for simply existing…
When something is 100% required for life, someone WILL exploit it
Where is that?
Hey, man, I’m right there with you. I’m not planning on buying a new car unless I’m 100% confident I can disable or remove all of its networking and spyware services. I’m just stating that it’s stupid that the average American will buy a new car and then say this shit about these cars just because they’re Chinese.
Honestly a Chinese car spying on you probably has less negative impact on your life vs any other brand that does business with American companies, of course assuming you yourself are american and live in America.
Why would someone who doesn’t live in China give a shit about Chinese spyware, especially when the alternative is any of the big US/EU manufacturers who happily hand your information to your own government?
China can’t do shit to yall. I’d include myself in there, but I quite enjoyed my time in China and intend to return, so Chinese spyware could actually be a threat to me.
when compared with elon’s nazi spyware?
There are more than 2 options here.
We’re in a thread that directly compares Tesla and BYD. Thankfully there are other EV manufacturers.
Is it. I know it’s a Chinese company but is there any evidence that there is anything going on?
Yes it literally phones back every bit of data. What other evidence do you need?
Cool. Now provide us with sources. Besides buzzword banger articles I haven’t seen hard proof. At least not more than other brands. Meanwhile Tesla has been doing this for training their self driving and we’ve been fine with it. And so do most cars under the norm of telemetry data.
The actual packets would be nice. Since you obviously have that evidence because you’re saying they “literally” do it would you mind providing it?
Here you go:
- https://www.byd.com/en-th/data-privacy
- https://www.koreaherald.com/article/10416925
- https://region.com.au/worst-offenders-respond-to-claims-their-cars-are-spying-on-you/818187/
Do you really think that CCP politely declines this free data? It’s so easy to hide spyware under “anonymous performance telimetry” - didn’t we learn anything from Cabridge Analytica and a billion of other cases? God lord, you people deserve to be spied on.
Spending billions on propaganda simply works.
It’s crazy how effective it is too. Especially on places like Tiktok
I’m genuinely surprised people be ok with BYD on Lemmy
You are actually genuinely surprised… people on lemmy like something from china? I guess you know not a lot about lemmy lol.
Here’s a hint: A lot of people on lemmy love china, especially the people who created it, and even moreso the people who populated it in its first days. You should look into lemmy a bit more if that’s genuinely surprising to you.
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Can always count on slurs from people who imagine tankies behind every rock.
Do you carry a cell phone?
Lemmy has always been retarded like that.
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I pick the cheapest.
My commute is about 20 miles a day. Charging level 1 at work is enough unless I go out on the weekend. My Nissan Leaf has been good enough for me. And it is neither Tesla nor Chinese.
My only gripe with that car is that it looks really bland. Then again I am no James Dean where I sit with two kids seats with the back full of shopping
Damn good car too. My bro rocked one for years, deceptively large inside. Quarterly he’d drive about 1000km in it which I think was mad but made it work, 80km at a time!!!
CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs (and many other emerging technologies) which basically forces people to buy them, so it shouldn’t be any surprise they’re selling them like crazy. Meanwhile conservatives in the US are stripping incentives away.
E: holy shit, the Lemmy tankies are real. I literally only spoke negatively of the US and yet I’m immediately blasted with their default replies; whataboutisms and false equivalencies about the US, in a conversation about the European market.
E2: please read up on Predatory Pricing before replying to me.
Good! I‘m grateful that the CCP is stepping in where the West is ignorant. Thanks to heavy lobbying by fossil fuels and car industries we would never have affordable cars in Europe without China. Thank you Xi Jinping for saving the climate 🙏
LOOOOOLOLOLOL have you looked at China’s greenhouse gas contributions lately? They don’t give a fuck about the climate, they’re just trying to drive other countries out of the market.
Chinese carbon emissions may have peaked this year and they’ve deployed more renewables than the rest of the world combined.
That’s because they’re also heavily subsidizing that industry out of self-interest. That’s the “emerging markets” I mentioned above.
Which sounds like a good idea for everybody. Maybe other countries should do the same thing.
I’m no fan of West Taiwan but they’re doing a lot more to decarbonize than most other major economies.
Like always, it’s a great idea, right up until China jacks up the prices after they’ve driven out all the competition and common people can’t buy them anymore.
Then maybe western companies can finally compete with them despite being ruled by obligate capitalists.
Oh no, a country acts out of self-interest! A concept that is completely foreign to the West 😱 At least their “self-interest“ has cheaper EVs for the rest of the world as a result. What are the coeffects of the US defending their self-interests? Rise in facism? Another genocide?
You’re moving the goalposts. You were literally thanking Xi for “saving the climate”.
Once again, I am not having a pissing match about which country is better, I am discussing the success of electric vehicles from China.
Not really? Still saving the climate 🤔
E: holy shit, the Lemmy tankies are real
Yes they are, but in this case you are just wrong. I guarantee you I’m not a tankie, but I think it’s pretty clear that USA has absolutely also subsidized electric cars, especially Tesla that has been generously subsidized in multiple ways, also subsidizing their charging network.
On top of that, USA has prevented a lot of outside competition with tariffs.All in all i am personally sick and tired of Americans always pointing fingers at the Chinese for doing the exact same thing Americans are doing.
Nope you are just wrong and intentionally spreading false equivalencies and making strawman arguments.
Let’s put aside for a moment the fact that I only spoke negatively about the US (the discussion was about Europe), and instead focus on the fact that the US has subsidized electric vehicles from around the world to the tune of $1B in an effort to promote the sales of clean vehicles. China has subsidized to the tune of $230B for domestic vehicles only.
Also it’s much easier to triple a small number than a big one.
Just read an article recently that while battery cell cost has fallen and overall capacity have risen, price of EVs continues to rise.
CCP subsidizes the absolute shit out of domestic EVs
Not really. Metal is cheap. Lithium and rare earths are cheap. Abundance policies for raw materials aren’t subsidies. Inflation is low and so are interest rates, and so factories are also cheap. Abundance in robotics too. Highly automated factories make low cost cars.
Prices are not absurdly lower than western cars. Maybe $5k less for equivalent to Tesla, and
which basically forces people to buy them
a key program in China is not from CCP. City governments give licence plates to EVs letting them drive every day. There is a trade in incentive, and sales tax break, still, afaik, but all of that is less than what US had, and EVs without subsidies are cheaper than ICE vehicles, as they are starting to be in the west as well.
You are being downvoted because you don’t know what you’re talking about, and “everyone’s a tankie” for not being as uninformed or propagandized as you.
I don’t get how a company is losing this much in multiple countries yet is still operating?
Like if they can lose this much and still be operating and investments not tanking, would it follow that they can pay better wages and benefits?
I bought byd stock. It keeps going down. I will never understand investing
And I’ve been holding tesla for years and it goes up even when news is shit. I don’t get it either
It’s just too complex for you. You’ll never understand things like regression charts, Fibonacci patterns and crime
Markets can stay irrational longer than you and I can stay solvent.
Chinese indexes/etfs are mostly good for its stability, overall it doesnt grow as much as other markets, but it tends not to drop as much either.
You never buy an individual firm stock unless you have insider knowledge.
Any non-cunts in the EV manufacturing space? Or is that a prerequisite?
I have a Chevy Bolt EUV. Maybe it’s still cunty. But I’m pretty sure it better than China spyware or a Nazi.
Hyundai has been pretty good. And I only hear good things about Rivian and Lucid.
I don’t think Musk much cares or ever did. The goal was to milk tesla for every last dime.
He didn’t care so much he bawled on trump’s shoulder and got him to buy one.
That was for show. And not to fix the underlying problems. If he cared, he would actually find and fix the problems.
just look how he treated Twitter once he bought it. He cares…. just about the wrong shit.
Because he’s unstable and undiagnosed and in denial.
And yet somehow he seems to legitimately think that’s how you do business.
Perhaps it’s because America coddles everything under the capitalist label so he doesn’t have to do business like he has to care about it succeeding or face maybe actions have consequences. And he has too many millions to have to count anything else as a success.just worries about ppl being ‘meanies’
The system makes it so that the rich fail at failing.
Enablism and denial all the way down.
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Good thing the Tesla board voted to give Elmo all those billions to make him stay, because for a second there was an actual risk that Tesla could survive as a company without Elmo, but now they kept him and made sure they’ll all go down off that cliff.
I don’t know about you but I drive over 5-10km regularly. For a short miserable stretch my daily commute was 90 miles. Buying household groceries or anything of size sounds annoying or impossible on bike. And then there’s work tools and whatnot that many professionals keep in vehicle.
The ebike option meme is so laughable. I recently did some research on cargo bikes and the entry models cost as much as a used ICE car with no air con, no rain cover, no heating, no safety. Ebike people are straight up delusional in thinking this is ready to replace cars.
Getting a second hand ice car is objectively the best thing you can do right now for everyone involved unless you ride half a million km a year.
Buying household groceries or anything of size sounds annoying or impossible on bike.
Not sure why buying groceries on a bike would be annoying or impossible. I do all my grocery shopping by bike, every single day, sometimes twice a day. Just bring a backpack.
As for ‘anything of size’, what would you need to transport? I still have a car, but I use it so little that I only need to buy gas maybe once or twice a year.
I tried it and in my country they’re restricted to 15.5mph so largely did nothing for me as my route is out in the countryside.
I moved to an e-moped (like an electric vespa) and it’s been amazing. About £1k to buy, £80 to insure and albeit restricted to 50mile range the equivalent mpg is something like 400mpg.
Naturally doesn’t work if you need to carry kids or large objects around routinely but has been great for me
I’m completely out of shape and don’t exercise at all, but commuted to work on a bike when my workplace was ~5 miles away. Wasn’t hard at all and only took a little longer than a car. Had a rack on the back and bags to pick up groceries too. If you need carry a lot of heavy tools every day, it obviously wouldn’t be ideal. Even then a bicycle trailer could be used up to something like 100lbs.
i drive a 440. it’s got a giant supercharger sticking out of the hood trying to get me pulled over all the time. i have to wear earplugs while driving to avoid permanent hearing loss. there’s no way to listen to shiteating death metal while driving, because the engine is just too loud. handles turns like shit. i don’t give a fuck
Oh no! I think I left the oven on
Elon Musk: “I love ovens”
I wonder if a large part of this as well is strictly because BYD is priced cheaper. I know for me personally 90 percent of the reason I haven’t invested in electric is because they’re all still luxury priced.
Come on Canada, let us have cheap BYD, fuck the US economy.
nah, forget about them
let us have economical cars because we don’t need these massive expensive things just to go 5km to get a load of groceries
Let us have safe bicycle infrastructure do that we can bike to those stores, how about that? And with that, add mixed constructions in the suburbs so that people have small local stores around.
A bike costs a fraction of a car
Bicycle infrastructure building and maintenance costs a fraction of that for cars
Bicycles don’t emit CO2. And for those wise asses saying that the cyclist does, it’s a fraction of a fraction of a car because you’re not lugging 2 tonnes of stell around to transport you and a bottle of milk.
Cycling infrastructure is much more efficient, you can push a shit tonne more people over the same road if you don’t need big ass cars. Yes, even your Mercedes smart car is I ass compared to a bicycle
It creates much much less pollution from tire dust
It’s much safer, bicycles kill only a fraction of the people that cars kill all year round
It’s healthier, people do exercise not because they went to the gym, but all day every day with their bikes
It cuts the noise pollution
It’s cheaper because no taxes, no gas needed, maintenance is a fraction of that of a car.
It’s way less wasteful
It lowers aggression. Though it may or may not exist, I’ve never heard of bicycle road rage
Need more?
Less cars is less parking spaces. Parking spaces get cities barely any taxable income. Instead of these ugly ass concrete wasteland parkitsoaces you can now have restaurants with outside patios which can be taxed. Couple that with the cheaper infrastructure, and that alone should be an obvious reason as to why do this
It’s really not that much slower. For typical short trips, bicycles usually only add some 10-20% of required time to your trip.
For any trip over say, 5-10 kilometers, use good public transportation
For those once in a lifetime trips where you actually need a car because you need to transport something huge, use one of those Evo rent-a-car.
In the Netherlands, a huge amount of people don’t have a car. Not because they can’t (they totally can) but because it’s stupid to have one. You can go everywhere by bike, you can jump with your bike in a train when needed to go further, cars are expensive and bad for everyone, why even have one?
That works in the city but i live in a remote area, and have an hour and a half round trip to work every day because its not economically viable for me to move closer.
Since I doubt Canada/BC will spend the money putting in viable public transit/high speed rail, I just want them to do the bare minimum to allow me to afford to stop burning gas to afford my next meal.
While striving for turning every small town into a walkable city sounds great and amazing on paper, the reality is it won’t happen, so we should push for baby steps in the right direction instead only focusing on the absolute ideal.
stuff like this is why I want to focus on the wide, sweeping generalization of “smaller vehicle is better”
there’s no need for someone in your position to drive a massive crossover for your commute in case you need to pick up 30 lb of groceries after work. you can do that with a hatchback, and pretty much the biggest reason that people don’t choose to do it with a hatchback is that they’re afraid of the bigger heavier vehicles on the road
I still push bicycle infrastructure, but I’m not going to push for everybody to get on bikes. I’m going to push for everybody to stop having such goddamn offensive dangerous vehicles (yes please drive at me at 90 km/h with blinding headlights in a 4,000 lb vehicle with a hood that is above my eye level when I’m in a vehicle with 8 in of ground clearance), and try to get them to realize that no it’s not okay because it came that way, you bought it and you have a responsibility as the owner and driver
And I don’t drive a large crossover, I drive an escape phev, carpool with 2 other people, and use it for more than just ‘30 pounds of groceries’.
I have filled it to the brim and gone camping multiple times this year, use it to transport my recycling to the transfer station every couple months, and at least twice a year do a large grocery shop at the Costco 4 hours away, stuffing it as full as I can manage.
I regularly use it to transport things that wouldn’t fit in a vehicle smaller than this one. Hell, I managed to stuff my stove in the thing, though only just barely.
For my daily commute, since I charge it both at home and at work, I only burn 3-4L of gas, which I would say is quite good for nearly 150km.
The only way for my daily/weekly/monthly/yearly routine to be more eco friendly is if I could afford to trade it in for a full electric vehicle - and with the trips I do on a regular basis (including camping, day trips to the ‘nearby’ lakes, occasional work driving), I would need something with a range above 600km, preferably 700km to be safe in the winter. Otherwise I would have to maintain 2 vehicles - one an electric with a range of at least 200km and the other a small truck or mid sized SUV, and that kind of defeats the entire purpose.
right, like you’re using your vehicle appropriately for its capabilities. people seem to think that they need to use it at 10% of its capabilities
10%? Try 1%… For every 1 of me in this area there are literally 10 lifted king cab shortboxes that never get used for truck purposes on the highway for the same commute as me.
The excuse is always “but I need it if I go offroad or want to tow my boat/camper to the lake!” as if they do that more than once a year.
You’re saying “this solution won’t work for me so nobody should have it”. Try instead “good that it works for you, but I need XYZ so we can tackle the problem on both fronts.”
That’s… Not at all what I am saying.
Go read the rest of the thread, where I agree the ideal is great, but we should be taking realistic steps towards it, instead of an unrealistic, all or nothing attitude that doesn’t take rural Canadians into consideration.
I misunderstood you then. We seem to be of the same opinion.
I agree with all of this and personally I have replaced as many car trips as I can with a bicycle
however I also recognize that that’s simply too far for most people right now, at least in my area. people love their cars. I would just love it if they weren’t so damn dangerous and offensive, and I wasn’t nearly killed every time I go out and they come near me. that’s literally a 50/50 chance when I bike to the grocery store that somebody nearly kills me (actually in the past 3 weeks that ratio is a little bit safer, but history shows that I’ll have a bunch of things happen in a short time to bring it back to even).
first we need people to recognize that they don’t need massive vehicles. then an extension of that logic is that they don’t need a motor vehicle for a lot of things.
Bicycle road rage does exist, between road bikers and regulars, between fast electric and regulars and in general because plenty assholes do also ride bicycles if the infrastructure is good enough.
Other than that, all valid points!
🤣🤣🤣
