Do I like seeing him fuck with Trump? Yes.
Is he a dirty neo liberal? Yes.
Would I support him in a primary for President in 2028? Probably not. I sure hope someone better shows up.
Would I support him if he won the Democratic primary? Yes. Assuming we get elections. Assuming the DNC hasn’t fully fractured and a third party candidate cannot reasonably win.
Would he fix our country? No. See item 2.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Its not hard, people.
Good take. Maybe the Kamala protest abstainers will have a fresh enough dose of Trumpism to remember that halfway-kind-of-decent-sometimes is better than literally-the-worst-possible-decision-at-all-times. I hope we still have elections. I hope we are not stuck with Newsom as the only choice. But if we are, he IS the only choice, and even though he’s not nearly a progressive, he is far closer to it than whatever the GOP rolls out with in 3 years (whether it is Trump again, Trump Jr., Vance, or a new piece of shit far right authoritarian). We need to make sure he wins, and that means getting your asses to the booth. All of us. Even you.
Goddam. You guys sure love hoping someone else learns lessons. You ever hope democrats learn a little something?
I very clearly said that I hope we are not stuck with him. Hoping that Dems get their shit together and act right or at least get out of the waybof those who do is a constant state for me.
This is the way.
I desperately wish it was this straightforward to the majority of people who shape our future in this country.
I am firmly convinced that most of our population doesn’t have internal language, no internal tools for abstracting ideas into mental words for comparison and evaluation, and just spout rhetoric by instinct. Literally, this is why everyone seems so stupid… they’ve changed the way their minds work by scrolling all day, every day, and not socializing and not changing habits.
Nuance is something that you can only arrive at if you have this mental narrative tool that lets you see multiple angles of an issue.
This means that our future of politics is going to be entirely grifters riding on this fact and creating over-the-top caricatures and WWE theater style politics. And people will eat it up because everyone just wants something to be all-in for or all-against so they can fight with the opposing fans. We’re so fucking cooked.
Yeah it can’t be that people are frustrated about living in a country where they’re in a permanent minority and will never be happy with their government.
Thank you for the non-sequitur response. I will return in kind with “Banana kneecap caterpillar establishment.”
Libs and dismissing any criticism from progressives. Can’t name a more iconic duo.
I am dismissing your complete lack of effort in engaging with a point, if it makes you feel better to think of someone who called that shit out as a “lib” then have it, meanwhile I will continue to rally people behind the point that a third of our population is too stupid with to continue to engage with using the same liberal political methods of inclusion and mediocrity and financial status-quo. I don’t know where that leaves you, but please do it over there on the other side of the curb.
You said people are stupid and lack a sense of nuance.
I pointed out that people are frustrated and don’t give a fuck about nuance anymore, and that’s why we’re fucked.
Sorry I didn’t spell that out for you.
Yes, you do have to make an effort to connect topics when communicating.
And sure, there is a problem with apathy, but that’s not THE problem. The last three presidential elections have seen the highest voter turnout in American history, it’s not a problem with people not caring as much as being too easily swayed to care about the wrong things, and this comes from a lack of education, lack of language skills, lack of cognitive ability broadly. When you say “People are too frustrated to care about nuance” yes, this IS stupidity. Stupidity isn’t some magic potion, it’s caused by things. In this case, it’s been designed by corporate interests using fascism to further this goal of a dumb, easily manipulated population.
Don’t care. He’s not a fascist and that’s enough right now.
This is a huge problem in mindset in my opinion. Yes he’s better than Trump. But I can grab a random person off the streets and they’d probably clear that bar. Our economic and political systems will always pool power into fewer and fewer peoples hands. We need drastic rethinking of how our society is going to work because Newsom will 100% sales out the American people when the rubber meets the profits. The old system are dead. We are just experiencing the symptoms and only wanting to stop the pain. Not cure the sickness.
He also wants to win an election in 2028 not pander to left wing donors in 2025.
Not to mention avoiding the mistakes Harris made. It is perfectly clear that it is impossible to veer left enough to stop the left from attacking you for not veering far enough to the left.
It’s just as clear it is impossible to veer right enough to scrape a single vote off the republican ticket. The left will criticize, but veer left and at least some will hold their noses and (protest sign in hand) vote anyway.
So sick of the division amongst the left. He is far from perfect, but I’d much rather take a neoliberal over a fascist.
With all due respect, as I understand where this sentiment comes from, that is how Trump gained momentum and won.
I think the blue no matter who approach has failed more than worked considering Hillary failed, Biden did win but really it was more Trump lost, Kamala lost (she got a shit deal yeah but still neolib vs unchained Trump should have been a no contest) and going further back Gore and Kerry lost to Bush. Clinton basically was the centrist Republican neolib that got Dems a roadmap that they keep to this day.
The time for half measures is over and the DNC needs to adapt or they will end up like the Whig Party. If you dont believe me look at their approval right now, No one likes the Democrats
Newsom is an establishment figure and telling the next generation of voters this is going to be a candidate for change won’t yield the results you think.
Jesus Christ he hasn’t even announced he’s running yet. Why are we already pretending these are the only two alternatives?
We don’t need to choose a neoliberal over a fascist… we can push for someone better.
Do we need to start the purity tests already, though? I don’t like Newsom and would vote against him in most any primary but I will absolutely vote for him over Trump or any other current republican. I can’t name a single republican I’d vote for at this point because they’re all complicit.
Yes. People won’t vote against him if we don’t articulate our criticisms against him.
He’s a bad governor who is widely disliked in California. This carnival show he’s putting on is his only claim to fame and it depends on democrats in other states not knowing anything else about him or his record.
Like, I don’t understand the implications of what you’re saying here. That we can’t criticize any politician who’s not a fascist? How is that a reasonable strategy?
I’m not saying that we can’t criticize but does it need to start now? Can’t it wait until we see who the field of candidates are so we can avoid tarring the candidates before they even start debating? I am mainly worried that the democrats are going to rip themselves apart again before campaign season even starts.
I completely disagree. This is the best time to be brutally honest so that bad candidates don’t launch and it’s easier to have a united front once most voters start paying attention during the campaign.
I’ve lived under Newsom (and to be clear, voted for him over republicans every time) so I don’t need to see him debate or anything to make up my mind about him. He blocked more progressive legislation in California than the republicans here did. He’s also a rich, corrupt slime ball who has nothing but disdain for ordinary people. He’s not a good candidate.
How about we start with a primary race? When was the last time the democrats ran a presidential primary that didn’t come across as a fait accompli? Maybe 2007?
Primaries haven’t even started yet for the fucking midterms. This is exactly the time for purity tests.
I’ve never tried to choose the neoliberal but I’ve never not had to vote for them.
If it’s not Newsom then it’ll be someone else I don’t like.
Neoliberals Don’t oppose fascists.
He will work with the fascist to come up with a compromise that the fascists can live with. That probably means sacrificing vulnerable groups and rallying around right wing talking points.
He is right wing. Gavin newsom is just right wing. the fact that there’s a uneven deeper more belligerent right wing out there doesn’t mean that he is somehow an alternative to it.
This attitude is how you ended up electing Trump.
Its bonkers that you guys are spiralling into a dystopian shitscape day by day and just cant bring yourself to acknowledge that any alternative has to be better.
This is how I feel. I can’t stand neoliberals but some people on here are delusional for saying they won’t vote for Newsom if he is nominated.
It’s not only about voting, but the complaining.
It seems like the problem in the US is getting people to give a fuck. By spreading this narrative that the democrats are just slower fascists or whatever your just encouraging progressive voters not to vote.
I’ve been voting for those alternatives for a quarter century and it hasn’t stopped the dystopian hellscape from happening.
That’s not really how voting works though.
An election is a poll or test or the collective will of citizens at a given point in time. Granted, in the US you have the electoral college fuckery overlaid on that but still …
Voting Blue but complaining about them to your compatriots is not the way.
Protesting about Gaza outside Democrat conventions in an election cycle is not the way to secure better outcome for Palestinians.
As long as. I am forced to vote Democratic I will complain about it because it’s bullshit and our government is stupid by design.
So your plan is to encourage others not to vote?
Seems counter productive.
There aren’t enough people like me to make a difference either way.
Progressives and socialists and weirdos are woefully outnumbered in this country, as shown by literally every election in my life.
Even if every single one voted we’d still lose and things would continue to get worse.
just cant bring yourself to acknowledge that any alternative has to be better.
That is not true. Slower fascism isn’t appreciably better than faster fascism. The you of four or eight years in the future doesn’t have any less of a right to not live under fascism than the you of right now. If by choosing the “better” alternative you throw away your ability to actually stop fascism you’re missing the forest for the trees.
It’s disingenuous to characterise imperfect alternatives like Newsom as “slower fascism”. That’s a propaganda narrative.
In this case choosing the better alternative means preserving your ability to actually stop fascism.
Did you see the other headline today where your actual president mentioned avoiding elections by starting a war ?
It’s this type of “Harris is imperfect therefore the same as Trump” attitude that brought you to this juncture.
That’s a propaganda narrative.
Well you still didn’t refute it, so you should do that if you disagree with my propaganda narrative.
In this case choosing the better alternative means preserving your ability to actually stop fascism.
And where, pray tell, is that stopping? How do you intend to do it? I mean do you remember the wins the far-right got under Biden in red states? You’re clutching your pearls without offering a realistic plan to ultimately stop fascism. If your favorite neoliberal can’t fix American society such that the fascists don’t simply come back stronger four years later, you’re just kicking the can down the road and should let the people with an actual plan get to work.
Did you see the other headline today where your actual president mentioned avoiding elections by starting a war ?
Yes, and who exactly managed to fumble their campaign so bad they lost to this well-known fascist?
And this is all before we even look at Newsom’s actual policies. The way that guy treats homeless people is straight up fascism, full stop. If you can’t take a stand on that, why the fuck should anyone else take a stand for you?
Oh please. You don’t even have the concepts of a plan.
First, criminalizing homelessness is fascism. If you can’t take a stand for the homeless how can you expect anyone to take a stand for you? You thibk he won’t throw you under the bus if it’s politically expedient? Second, do you intend to repeat the same song and dance that got Trump elected twice? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Third, why are you compromising from now? Like come on it’s still 2025, even if you’re going to vote blue no matter who, now you should be projecting strength not compliance.
Oh fuck you, you tell the left they can’t critisize these people during elections and now we’re not supposed to critisize them aftet elections too? When are we supposed to ask for things that keep us from dying then? You’re part of the problem.
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It’s really simple.
You criticise the government of the day, whoever they may be.
You do not criticise your own side when they’re not in government or running for election.
Leftists: “Democratic politicians are feckless. They need to get on social media to call out Trump’s bullshit on daily basis! When is a leader going to step up?!”
Somewhere, a finger curls on a monkey’s paw.
Calling him out on social media is absolutely not what I want and is definitely feckless.
He threw trans people under the bus, and there’s no way in hell I’m voting for that.
You Americans don’t learn, constantly punching left, nobody is good enough to be an ally. While the right is unified and eating your lunch
This is true to an extent, but when you look at the history of the moral majority (new right movement) and what actually unified the right, it should give you some context about how the Dems aren’t really doing themselves any favors by distancing themselves from progressive values. The right were always willing to offer some concessions to what were once considered fringe voters (and now is essentially the base of the Republican party) in exchange for their vote.
I say this as someone who is almost always willing to vote blue no matter who, continuously catering to the wealthy and failing to follow through on promises is going to be the nail in the coffin for Democrats (and possibly American democracy in general). Midterms will probably be their last chance to get it right (if we’re even allowed to vote) and they are definitely not off to a good start by giving the cold shoulder to Mamdani.
It’s very hard to battle voter apathy and “both sides” disinformation when Democrats will not even acknowledge that much of what progressives are asking for is pretty reasonable. Establishment Dems seem to believe once they’re accused of cultural marxism (which btw is a term that was popularized by the same people that created the moral majority/new right) they will lose centrists voters that might help them gain an edge over the competition. Meanwhile they seem to be oblivious to all the support on the left that they’re absolutely hemorrhaging.
Some of that support is going to the right (and those are the people Gavin Newsome seemed really be worried about reaching with his podcast that “reached across the aisle” to some absolutely vile people), but a big chunk is being lost to people who just no longer see a point in bothering to vote for an establishment that seems to intentionally exclude and dismiss them.
I believe what I believe, and whoever shares my values, will get my support. Compromising on my values to get some kind of “strategic alliances” is something I don’t do. If you look across the world and across history, that generally doesn’t end well in the long term.
Bruh what do you think political parties are?
Unions, national alliances, society… It’s all people compromising on their individual values.
Good for you for letting perfect be the enemy of good, bet you feel so vindicated as the world burns down around you.
And where did partisan politics bring us to? The world is burning down around us even without my help. I think this validates my point.
I dunno, I’d say the left tried it your way in 2016 and 2024 and how’s that working out?
As long as you vote for someone I don’t care whether you choose the candidate that I would vote for. There’s no wasted votes, I’ve voted 3rd party when the major candidates aren’t someone I can vote for in good conscience.
If you abstain on “principle” because there isn’t a politician that perfectly aligns with your values then yeah, you’re just dumb and you’re part of the problem.
About 60% of the country votes in the general election, much less in the primaries, and much, much less in local elections. People that don’t vote because they can’t be assed suck, but the ones that sit on a high horse and scoff at the system that they play a huge hand in perpetuating through some misguided moral high ground are literally the worst.
No fascism is better than fascism. Hopefully if he runs and wins he actually fixes the problems that led to fascism. He needs to tax the wealthy at 98%.
I don’t give a shit. Anyone effectively getting under the skin of that demented pedophile should be encouraged to do so. Fuck these purity tests.
He only looks good compared to the opposition.
Don’t split. I don’t like the guy much if I have better options, but anytime he’s punching right I’m for him.
…you expect the dems to run a progressive?
I fully expect to see a repeat of 2020. The party establishment will be split between Elderly Nepo-Ghoul With Fanatical Partisan Following and Young Pretty Boy Who Says Progressive Things To A Room Of Millennial Age Investment Bankers.
On the edge of the debate, you’ll see a few genuinely progressive leftist voices saying things like “We should be against genocide” and “Homelessness is easily solveable if we put forward even the least amount of political capital” and “Granting DC statehood is the most obviously smart and moral Act any future Congress can pass”. Maybe even a few “Medicare 4 All is still a good idea” die-hards shouting from the extremely cheap seats.
And then one (or both) of the insider candidates will pick up a few of the more popular slogans as their own. This, while denouncing any of the fringe voices as Anti-White Racists, Politically Toxic Far-Left Anti-Capitalists, Eco-Terrorists, and Fat Ugly Unfuckable Losers.
Come primary day, said fringe leftists will do shockingly well in some of the early states. At this point, the centrist candidates will panic, drop the kabuki of intra-party squabbling, align behind whomever the current Party Elder tells them to select, scream that a vote for Fringe Candidate is a vote for Fascism, blanket the airwaves with a deafening smear campaign, disavow every nice thing they said up until this point, and maybe squeak in to the convention by a few points on a technicality about who gets to be Superdelegates.
The Convention will be a coronation of a rotten corporate homunculus. Any leftist disgusted by the process or the annointed candidate will be denounced as a Far-Right Foreign Plant designed to undermine the fundamental principles of democracy itself. Said rotten homunculus will pick a Token Minority/Progressive as their running mate, then immediately dump that person to the sidelines and campaign exclusively with the reanimated corpse of Rush Limbaugh.
Trump wins by a ten point margin in 2028. Leftists are blamed for the loss. Democrats vow to purge their party of anything resembling progressive values or human decency even harder. By 2032, they’re running a Bitcoin Billionaire in an uncontested primary, because it’s unreasonable to trust an election process that’s been infiltrated by Hamas.
This is exactly why they’ll run him.
Friend I don’t give a fuck I just don’t want to live in hell anymore. I’m going to be first in line slamming my fist on the table for a progressive but apparently we need to be at Gavin Newsom before we can ask for a progressive. Lemmy and Current Affairs isn’t the average American. We suck. That’s abundantly clear to me now. You know what? If Mandani or similar figure was running for president I’m all in. I’m all in on that no matter what. I’m in for the most progressive candidate at all times. Unfortunately right now I just need to not be under threat of everything completely falling apart and not being fixable. Maslow’s hierarchy I need that first foundational level to build my pyramid on. I don’t necessarily mean this to convince anyone, sometimes you just have to yell into the void because it all feels so bad.
The path to progressivism does not run through assholes like Gavin Newsom. “Lesser-evilism” has brought us to Trump!
Pretty sure greater evilism brought us trump.
It’s another way of looking at it. You’re always going to have a fascist element in society who loves the “greater evil”. Maybe we should demand more than “not quite as bad” to represent the opposition. Every time the “lesser evil” manages to win and then disappoints people, it demoralizes its own electorate. Every time the dems move rightward on issues, they push the “greater evil” even further right. This is how “lesser-evilism” helps bring us to where we are now.
So, I don’t think you are entirely wrong, but I think you (and by extension, all americans) are out of luck on that front. There is not a single democratic candidate who, if elected with a supermajority in congress and a supportive supreme court, that would turn around the economic situation in the US from the course it’s on.
You can get some wins with social issues and foreign policy, and tinker around the edges of the economy, but even if Sanders or AOC became dictators tomorrow, their stated goals, while being light years ahead of Trump or any Republican, would not reverse the decline in living standards for the majority of Americans.
For the issues most Americans care about most, their pocket book, lesser evil is all there is or will be for the foreseeable future.
The lesser evil gets more evil every cycle. Foreign policy is the least likely to change between administrations. We are watching how an executive can wield power in spite of the courts and legislature.
Let’s be clear, the courts and legislature could stop this, they choose not to. They are captured. When/if a Democrat reaches the White House again they will not have half the power that Trump wields.
(The courts are a little iffy, but I’m still confident the legislature could stop it if they wanted)
Could they? By what mechanism?
It is more nuanced like that. You and I are not the average American voter. We can’t assume all voters will act like us. We have to play the field and represent our true ideals as much as possible in balance.
Show me the average American voter. I know a lot of people, but I’ve never met the average one.
I assume you think that’s a gotcha to me, but “average voter” is a phrase, not a specific person. It’s meant to describe the general zeitgeist/trend of what most people are doing. Most people are not strong progressives by leftist Lemmy standards. That’s fairly non-controversial. I’m trying to engage in good faith here.
I don’t mean it as a gotcha. It’s meant to make you reconsider what I see as an unhelpful way of looking at people. If you think in terms of averages instead of in terms of people, I think you lose sight of what you’re trying to achieve. You can think in terms of average (or common) problems people have, and speak to those.
I appreciate what you’re trying to do.
Damn, .ml is starting their crap early. They already got trump back in, now they are working to get more of the GOP in power by fomenting infighting…reruns suck.
OH boy I sure do love purity checks. It’s worked out so great for us in the past.
Why is this shit always all or nothing, goddamn. It works for maga because they have no nuance and it’s all groupthink, but the rest of the nation is far more complex and won’t just go for a hard left progressive in the same way. It needs to happen but it won’t happen in a single election.
I am in no way endorsing newsome, but at least he’s doing LITERALLY ANYTHING.
Gavin Newsom offers more pain and suffering to trans and queer folk.
CLOSE ENOUGH. for fuck’s sake if you wait for perfect you’ll get stuck with shit like trump again.
Why is wanting things to get better instead of stagnating or getting worse somehow impossible to understand?
When the Duopoly exists to ratchet us twoards fascism then the only way out is to abandon the Duopoly.
Voting / politics is a chess game. Sometimes you have to plan ahead and work from behind and sacrifice some positions. Refusing to play the pieces you have (even from a losing position) is just letting the opponent win.
If there’s a better primary challenger than Newsom, a Progressive candidate, I’m all for them. I want them. I don’t want Newsom, but if it comes down to him or another trump clone, Newsom is good enough to at least keep us from societal collapse.
Refusing to vote for him because he’s not a perfect fit is just giving the enemy a win. See: all those who refused to vote for Harris and now we have trump.
There’s no viable 3rd party candidate. Probably never will be.
Lmao i saw this same comment in 2016
Just save this post and you can use it every 8 years until we are killing each other for clean water
Ok. So how do we “abandon the duopoly?” Honest question. If you have a viable suggestion, I am all for it. Because refusing to vote is what trump wants you to do.
Hold on there partner, it can get so much worse.
The USA does not need a progressive rn. It needs someone who can stop the fascists. Newsom has the best chances of doing that.
No he doesn’t. He would lose
And Newsom is stopping them by?
This sort of dipshittery is exactly why the democratic party keeps trotting out center-right nobodies that fail to energize their base, and why actual progressives like Mamdani are doing so well despite widespread attempts by the left AND right to pretend he’s not.
To be as polite as possible on the matter? Shut the fuck up, and take your lies elsewhere.
Today Texas Democrats will be present for the session that will gerrymander their state, they could have stayed out of the state to keep it from passing, but the decided to return and allow it to pass.
The gerrymandering that Gavin says will happen in California is going to be voted on in November, it will probably not happen.
This chain of events will result in Republicans gaining extra control in the house/senate, because of the choices and lies made by Democrats.
The gerrymandering that Gavin says will happen in California is going to be voted on in November, it will probably not happen.
I will say this. They aren’t waiting until November 2026 to vote on it. So they’re at least pretending to take this seriously.
But I’ll also say that some right-wing court is going to decide the ballot measure is unconstitutional. And the California Dems are going to throw up there hands, announce collectively “Oh well we tried!”, and then find a way to blame Transgender people for the Permanent Republican House Majority.
probably wont happen, what makes you say that?
It’s been the cycle for the last 40 or so years
The way we stop the cycle is to stop it
