The only leftists who need to get fucked are the ones who don’t believe in harm reduction. Who don’t believe in buying time for marginalized demographics to not get murdered AND buying time for us to organize instead of offering up our necks to the fucking secret police.
The rest of them are my comrades. I want capitalism gone. I want neocolonialism abolished. I want racial and ethnic justice in this fucking country, and in the world.
I just don’t think that helping Nazis get elected is, in any way, a conscionable or helpful means of achieving any of that.
Yeah. I guess that raises the question of “Who offers the peace branch first?” and “In what circumstances is it offered?”
Will abstaining leftists be willing to offer a peace branch and vote for an anti-fascist candidate, even one that disagrees with their wider views, if abstaining against fascists as a moral act is normalized?
Likewise, would centrist ghouls be willing to offer a peace branch and vote for a progressive primary candidate, even one that disagrees with their wider views, if voting as a personal sacrament instead of a strategic decision remains normalized?
The fighting I’m doing here is on the actual, practical actions we need to be doing, and, specifically, the ones that are controversial here (see: nearly a thousand comments in this meme about abstaining being bad, Jesus Christ), rather than the ones that are generally accepted (like “FOR GOD’S SAKE WE NEED TO ORGANIZE A GENERAL STRIKE”, which has a much less controversial mien in this community).
Can we actually reduce infighting without addressing the issue of the willingness to compromise for strategic purposes in a still very right-wing country? Or will promises to stop fighting just mean we remain divided and isolated and pursuing different strategies which none of us are willing to ‘compromise’ our own ‘purity’ of action to support, since in this case the cessation of infighting is ‘agree to disagree’ rather than resolving the fundamental issue of being unwilling to cooperate which this meme is criticizing, leading none of our left-wing attempts to reach critical mass, so to speak, and the fascists continuing to dominate society and murder whomever they want to?
Idk man. It sounds like your not really angry at a person or an organization but a straw man you built up in your head. What your asking for is for a vague group of leftists to apologize.
I don’t give a fuck about apologies, I want this not to happen again; and considering that numerous commenters in this very comment section are openly praising abstaining in the face of literal Nazis as a moral activity and being highly upvoted for it, quite clearly not only is it not a ‘strawman’ but a real phenomenon, but prevailing opinions on this very leftist community is that it SHOULD happen again, which is a bit fucking dogshit for the millions of us who are in danger of losing our fucking lives for their masturbatory sense of purity
And I get that. But I also get not wanting to vote for someone who is willing to save you but not willing to save someone you think is also worth saving. That’s a pretty large ask of someone morally. At what point do you stop blaming the people who’s morals held them to too high a standard and start blaming the people who couldn’t meet the bar of “don’t support a genocide”.
Like, your really going to spend time,effort and soul into being mad at the guy unwilling to compromise on their morality for their own safety rather than the guys who can’t stack up to what should be an easy ask?
Just weird priorities brother. I get the harm reduction argument. I voted and whatnot. But the moment that election was over, I was way more mad at the folks who couldn’t help but declare how much they won’t budge on genocide instead of my friends and ideological comrades. At the end of the day it was those running the election who lost it.
But I also get not wanting to vote for someone who is willing to save you but not willing to save someone you think is also worth saving.
So you understand, then, why I feel disdain for these ‘leftists’ who weren’t willing to save people I think were worth saving?
At what point do you stop blaming the people who’s morals held them to too high a standard and start blaming the people who couldn’t meet the bar of “don’t support a genocide”.
Holy fucking shit
MORE THAN ONE ACTOR CAN BE GUILTY AT ONCE
Like, your really going to spend time,effort and soul into being mad at the guy unwilling to compromise on their morality for their own safety rather than the guys who can’t stack up to what should be an easy ask?
“An easy ask”
A majority of the fucking Democratic Party electorate still supports Israel.
“Just stop supporting Israel, national candidate whose hope is to win on an extremely narrow margin! It’s easy!”
Not only that, but fucking yes I’m going to be mad at the guy unwilling to compromise their own ‘morality’, and in doing so not only murder the people he claims to be doing it for (Palestinians) but also a whole host of other marginalized groups numbering in the literal fucking millions by projections in the first six months of this fucking Nazi regime, and what will probably end up in the tens of millions, if not more.
If someone’s ‘morality’ tells them to let Nazis win so they can virtue signal, their ‘morality’ isn’t worth a good goddamn, and they’re not much better than Nazis themselves.
Just weird priorities brother. I get the harm reduction argument. I voted and whatnot. But the moment that election was over, I was way more mad at the folks who couldn’t help but declare how much they won’t budge on genocide instead of my friends and ideological comrades.
See, that’s exactly the problem. You’re more interested in remaining friends and ‘comrades’ with people who enable literal Nazis, because changing your social circles would be uncomfortable. Your friends and ‘comrades’ couldn’t help but declare how much they wouldn’t budge on genocide - namely, that if they couldn’t prevent one genocide, they preferred there to be numerous genocides, and the genocide they ‘wanted’ to prevent being expanded.
This is the exact same shit that suburban liberals do with their conservative friends every time their conservative friends vote for Nazis. “Ohhh, I don’t agree with their choice, but aren’t there people more responsible???”
No one who supports Nazis is my friend. No one who supports Nazis is my comrade.
Brother, I cannot express to you how weird it is that you so blatantly throw gazan lives in the “already dead pile, so not really apart of the conversation, except for those who want no dead people. Those are the real killers. Not the killers I want you to vote for. You practically voted for the killers I didn’t want you to vote for!”
Look brother. At the end of the day, we both voted for a genocidal regime. I took it as an unfortunate lesser evil choice that failed due to the lesser evil not being lesser enough on the evil.
You sit here and argue some weird logical loop that somehow means you actually, the guy who voted for the genocidal regime, are somehow less culpable to that continued genocide than the person who couldn’t condone that coming from their actions.
It’s weird. It’s self righteous and I don’t get it. You got off the hook. You don’t get to see the genocide you voted for, you got a different one you didn’t. But that doesn’t absolve you and it doesn’t absolve me. Eat it and move on with more productive things.
Man you keep just making a variation on the same “fuck the leftists” line over and over again.
The only leftists who need to get fucked are the ones who don’t believe in harm reduction. Who don’t believe in buying time for marginalized demographics to not get murdered AND buying time for us to organize instead of offering up our necks to the fucking secret police.
The rest of them are my comrades. I want capitalism gone. I want neocolonialism abolished. I want racial and ethnic justice in this fucking country, and in the world.
I just don’t think that helping Nazis get elected is, in any way, a conscionable or helpful means of achieving any of that.
Idk man, if that’s the case I think we could all use less leftist infighting that we are known for.
Honestly it’s starting to feel hopeless. All I want to do is just die now
Yeah. I guess that raises the question of “Who offers the peace branch first?” and “In what circumstances is it offered?”
Will abstaining leftists be willing to offer a peace branch and vote for an anti-fascist candidate, even one that disagrees with their wider views, if abstaining against fascists as a moral act is normalized?
Likewise, would centrist ghouls be willing to offer a peace branch and vote for a progressive primary candidate, even one that disagrees with their wider views, if voting as a personal sacrament instead of a strategic decision remains normalized?
The fighting I’m doing here is on the actual, practical actions we need to be doing, and, specifically, the ones that are controversial here (see: nearly a thousand comments in this meme about abstaining being bad, Jesus Christ), rather than the ones that are generally accepted (like “FOR GOD’S SAKE WE NEED TO ORGANIZE A GENERAL STRIKE”, which has a much less controversial mien in this community).
Can we actually reduce infighting without addressing the issue of the willingness to compromise for strategic purposes in a still very right-wing country? Or will promises to stop fighting just mean we remain divided and isolated and pursuing different strategies which none of us are willing to ‘compromise’ our own ‘purity’ of action to support, since in this case the cessation of infighting is ‘agree to disagree’ rather than resolving the fundamental issue of being unwilling to cooperate which this meme is criticizing, leading none of our left-wing attempts to reach critical mass, so to speak, and the fascists continuing to dominate society and murder whomever they want to?
Idk man. It sounds like your not really angry at a person or an organization but a straw man you built up in your head. What your asking for is for a vague group of leftists to apologize.
I don’t give a fuck about apologies, I want this not to happen again; and considering that numerous commenters in this very comment section are openly praising abstaining in the face of literal Nazis as a moral activity and being highly upvoted for it, quite clearly not only is it not a ‘strawman’ but a real phenomenon, but prevailing opinions on this very leftist community is that it SHOULD happen again, which is a bit fucking dogshit for the millions of us who are in danger of losing our fucking lives for their masturbatory sense of purity
And I get that. But I also get not wanting to vote for someone who is willing to save you but not willing to save someone you think is also worth saving. That’s a pretty large ask of someone morally. At what point do you stop blaming the people who’s morals held them to too high a standard and start blaming the people who couldn’t meet the bar of “don’t support a genocide”.
Like, your really going to spend time,effort and soul into being mad at the guy unwilling to compromise on their morality for their own safety rather than the guys who can’t stack up to what should be an easy ask?
Just weird priorities brother. I get the harm reduction argument. I voted and whatnot. But the moment that election was over, I was way more mad at the folks who couldn’t help but declare how much they won’t budge on genocide instead of my friends and ideological comrades. At the end of the day it was those running the election who lost it.
So you understand, then, why I feel disdain for these ‘leftists’ who weren’t willing to save people I think were worth saving?
Holy fucking shit
MORE THAN ONE ACTOR CAN BE GUILTY AT ONCE
“An easy ask”
A majority of the fucking Democratic Party electorate still supports Israel.
“Just stop supporting Israel, national candidate whose hope is to win on an extremely narrow margin! It’s easy!”
Not only that, but fucking yes I’m going to be mad at the guy unwilling to compromise their own ‘morality’, and in doing so not only murder the people he claims to be doing it for (Palestinians) but also a whole host of other marginalized groups numbering in the literal fucking millions by projections in the first six months of this fucking Nazi regime, and what will probably end up in the tens of millions, if not more.
If someone’s ‘morality’ tells them to let Nazis win so they can virtue signal, their ‘morality’ isn’t worth a good goddamn, and they’re not much better than Nazis themselves.
See, that’s exactly the problem. You’re more interested in remaining friends and ‘comrades’ with people who enable literal Nazis, because changing your social circles would be uncomfortable. Your friends and ‘comrades’ couldn’t help but declare how much they wouldn’t budge on genocide - namely, that if they couldn’t prevent one genocide, they preferred there to be numerous genocides, and the genocide they ‘wanted’ to prevent being expanded.
This is the exact same shit that suburban liberals do with their conservative friends every time their conservative friends vote for Nazis. “Ohhh, I don’t agree with their choice, but aren’t there people more responsible???”
No one who supports Nazis is my friend. No one who supports Nazis is my comrade.
Brother, I cannot express to you how weird it is that you so blatantly throw gazan lives in the “already dead pile, so not really apart of the conversation, except for those who want no dead people. Those are the real killers. Not the killers I want you to vote for. You practically voted for the killers I didn’t want you to vote for!”
Look brother. At the end of the day, we both voted for a genocidal regime. I took it as an unfortunate lesser evil choice that failed due to the lesser evil not being lesser enough on the evil.
You sit here and argue some weird logical loop that somehow means you actually, the guy who voted for the genocidal regime, are somehow less culpable to that continued genocide than the person who couldn’t condone that coming from their actions.
It’s weird. It’s self righteous and I don’t get it. You got off the hook. You don’t get to see the genocide you voted for, you got a different one you didn’t. But that doesn’t absolve you and it doesn’t absolve me. Eat it and move on with more productive things.