I love how the most basic social democratic(at best) policies in the US are framed as “socialism”
The idea of the “undeserving” getting anything provided to them gets a lot of people very angry here. And then those same people probably:
- Call themselves good Christians.
- Are beneficiaries of some sort of public welfare whether they realize it or not.
If they’re opposed to “socialism” as Fox News uses the term because some of the recipients aren’t “deserving”, they have started far from the words attributed to Jesus and God in the Christian Bible.
https://biblerepository.com/bible-verses-about-socialism/
Matthew 25:35
“For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in.”
(And if you think this quote is out of context, go read the chapter. Jesus is depicted literally telling his followers that to get into heaven they need to take care of the poor.)
But like only for the deserving(right skin colour) poor’s right? /S
I’m so happy that Fox News basically broke the overton window.
So many good and honestly just common sense things have been declared “SOCIALISM!!!1!ELEVEN!!” that some Fox viewers are now going: “You know, that socialism thing don’t sound half bad.” That’s the shit that happens when you overuse your scary word to describe positive things. Eventually you’re advertising for your opponents.
The US never recovered from the Red Scare and McCarthyism. I’d even argue that both of those things entrenched US society into propaganda even more.
Leftists who keep looking down on liberals are just as bad as the liberals the meme is about.
Nah liberals are fucking stupid. Go suck a billionaire dick for a campaign donation.
This attitude is why the right is winning. The left, both leftists and liberals, would rather keep gatekeeping what counts as left than actually make any progress to the left.
Liberals are NOT leftist. Leftism begins at anti capitalism.
billionaire dick sucking noises
Trust me, those noises are coming from the people eating up the liberal vs leftist propaganda.
That’s you. You think liberals are leftists.
You should work on your reading comprehension. I never said that. I said that I think they should stop fighting each other.
No, they really aren’t.
We don’t look down on liberals. They are our enemies. Underestimating the enemy is key to losing any battle.
Some guy: “Hey, can we move the overton window to the left? We need to talk about socialized healthcare and common sense welfare programs so the poors don’t starve.”
Lemmy.ml: “YOU ARE THE ENEMY! FASCIST FASCIST! Social Democracy is just there to keep the revolution from happening!”
Historical photo of Hakeem Jeffries
I’m sick of all these fascist plants pretending to be progressive while trying to convince us it’s not worth bothering to vote Dem in the upcoming elections because they’re all the same. They aren’t, and you know they aren’t you fucking Nazi.
The progressive movement is having its best year ever in the Democratic primaries and can continue to do so. We need to change the party, yes. But that’s secondary to removing power from Trump.
Biden, Obama, and Clinton weren’t true leftists. But they sure as shit weren’t the dumpster fire we have now and we HAVE to neuter these fuckers in November.
Yeah I’m almost 100% positive at this point that Hakeem Jeffries is one such GOP plant (among others, he just stands out the most to me). He goes against everything the Democratic party cares about.
I’m actually talking about the trolls making these posts.
They get together with their friends from across the aisle and count votes to ensure everyone has a chance to stay in power together. Every single time, 5-6 random democrats vote with their best buddies from across the aisle.
And then people like you come online and carry their water.
Just maybe stop posting if you want to defend the “good guy” in their little good cop bad cop ruse.
Thanks.
So what we should do instead is stop participating and letting the GOP do whatever they want? Or should we instead vote Democrat in the general election, then move the Dems to the left in the primaries. You know - exactly what our largest city did just this year to great success.
Are you dumb? Have you not seen all the Dems going after progressive Dems who won their primaries and are saying to vote for the fuckin Republican instead?? Liberals are the worst kind of people who will actively vote against their wishes because scawyyy sowcialism.
Then you primary thise assholes too. It’s not that complicated.
They weren’t leftists, or anything close, but rewarding them for being ‘at least you arent trump’ sends them a message that they don’t really have to try.
On the flip side, Trump has caused a ton of pain, and I think anyone who was trying to punish the dems for being shit is regretting it at this point, but I do see a bit of a light at the end of the tunnel here.
Nobody who’s thought on it even briefly thinks unfettered capitalism is good anymore lmao.
Look, if we really believe that the Dems aren’t the answer then the only choice we have left is mob violence, and a full blown governmental reset with a new Constitution. Personally I’m for that, however, I would like to give The Democratic Party enough rope to make it clear that is what needs to happen, or enough rope to actually get us out of this mess and on the path of recovery.
But yeah, if you’re not willing to use your small piece of violence allotted to you by the system, then I assume you’re mad enough to actually get bloody. And if you’re not either one of those, then your opinion doesn’t really have any weight, and you’re exactly what they accuse you of.
Thats a bit of a pivot from the topic, im talking about pressuring the dems to change, not taking to the street. Adapt or fail.
It’s not a pivot, it’s a natural conclusion to your logic. Republicans are automatically out, which leaves The Democratic Party, Third Party, or Not Voting as your other choices. Third Party isn’t currently viable, and nobody took the last two years(or more) to create a viable third party movement, so that’s out.
Which leaves now Not Voting or The Democrats. If Not Voting is your choice, you are already saying you don’t believe in the system, or that the current Administration is alright by you. And if you don’t find the current Administration tolerable, then that leaves you don’t believe in the system.
Which is fine, but that leaves it in your hands to get organized and do something. Discouraging others to not use their allotted piece of violence doesn’t help, and very much makes you look like an asset for The Republicans.
So again, if you don’t believe The Democrats are the solution, then I must assume you’re mad enough to fight The System. And if your choice isn’t either one of those, then you’re a Republican Asset, and should be treated like one.
It achieves leverage. If a party knows it gets your vote regardless of what it does, it has very little electoral incentive to respond to you.
Withholding support makes that support conditional: adapt sufficiently to win those voters back, or accept the electoral cost of losing them.
You can argue that the cost of doing that is too high given the Republicans, but that’s an argument about whether the strategy is worth the risk, not whether the strategy exists.
You can’t achieve leverage unless they fear you more, than they love Israeli money. Your non vote, doesn’t scare conservative parties, if it did we would have achieved your leverage already. Instead 30%-40% of the electorate sits out every election, even more during midterms, which is the largest “political faction” already dwarfing both major parties. And has for decades.
Your leverage in that manner doesn’t exist, it’s a dead end. You want them to change, make them fear you. Your non-vote doesn’t achieve that. A Viable Third Party would, but that takes time. So you only have a few options left to achieve your leverage.
You’re conflating habitual non-voters with previously reliable voters deliberately withdrawing their support. They’re not politically equivalent.
A huge group that routinely doesn’t vote, for thousands of different reasons, sends no coherent signal. A measurable part of your coalition abandoning you over specific failures absolutely does.
And “make them fear you” is just a more dramatic way of describing electoral leverage. If losing those voters can cost Democrats elections, they have an incentive to win them back.
Whether they actually respond correctly is another question. But guaranteeing them your vote regardless of what they do certainly gives them less reason to, im sure you can appreciate that much?
Not rewarding them means we give up our right to vote after which we won’t be able to remove the right without bullets because we won’t have fair elections anymore. It’s estimated that dismantling USAID alone will cause 14M preventable deaths by 2030 many of them children.
I guess the question is why are you willing to kill millions of children and crash our entire country in order to make a point we’ll only appreciate after we are watching them drag people to the death camps they are already building.
The response would be, to save millions more from a future even worse dystopia that potentially lasts indefinitely.
There is no reason to believe that the democrats will enact such a dystopia or try to keep you from voting for someone else next round whereas the other side is literally already planning on stealing both upcoming elections and tweeting about it.
I’m not saying the Democrats themselves are going to create that dystopia, not directly. I’m saying that if people repeatedly vote Democrat and see no meaningful improvement in their lives, eventually some of them will conclude that voting Democrat achieves nothing and either disengage or swing even harder towards the Republicans.
“Vote Democrat because the alternative is worse” can work for a while, but it isn’t a sustainable substitute for actually giving people reasons to believe their lives will improve.
I mean… I’m not in the US but I always thought that you guys have a right wing and a far right wing party. I don’t see any leftist party… so it makes sense that they would be more aligned with fascism than socialism in terms of ideology.
Its kind of the joke here
Parties don’t control the politicians inside them the same way they might be able to in some other countries. So it’s one fascist party and one big tent everything from left to right party
Only one threatens their class interests.
Yup!
Love that Melania is there but Trump ain’t.
Same. In my headcannon, they all insisted she leave him at home and she was happy to comply.
As evidenced by the closest thing to a believably sincere smile she’s been wearing in public since before Epstein recruited her.
Democrats are owned by the same oligarchs that own the Republicans.
It’s the inevitable end result. It’s pretty hard to compete with money. They just keep buying your leaders.
I wish we could stop pretending the US wasn’t a fascist nation for a very long time now. It gets old seeing things like “fascist takeover” when it is just different factions within fascism duking it out.
Hmm…do I want a neofascists or more traditional fascist? That is the garbage options we have to vote for.
That’s why we call social democrats the moderate wing of fascism. They exist solely to normalize fascism and to facilitate the fascist transition, by acting as a controlled opposite to distract the left away from socialism, and then to attack those who remain in the socialist camp. Although, the US is so cucked as a nation that they don’t even get the “social democracy” part, but even their controlled “opposition” is openly neoliberal and can hardly even be considered an “opposition” at all, controlled or otherwise.
It’s a fairly decent strategy to placate the right wing base with social democracy. Even opponents of socialism can’t deny that. I think that’s part of its appeal.
It is ineffective when the rachet effect is in place, though. The neoliberal wing is more focused on maintaining that first and foremost.
Social democracy is to placate the left, not the right. Late 19th century and early 20th century western Europe was fraught with civil wars from a lot of attempts and failed communist revolutions, such as in Finland, Spain, France, and Greece. Tensions were very high and social democracy spread as a way to provide just enough concessions to working class people that the ire from the working class would not erupt into revolutionary violence.
Although, with the turn of the 21st century, with basically the complete non-existence of socialists and communists as a global force, this placation has become rather pointless and so these western European countries have begun boiling the frog and slowly rolling them back through endless austerity.
The right is never placated. It’s impossible to placate them. They always want more more more. If you give them an inch they will take a mile. It really stems from the material basis of the left and right.
The right represents the ruling class, which are well-organized and backed by enormous centralized financial institutions. The left represents the working class, which are not organized at all and not backed by any centralized institutions.
This distinction matters because it means the right always, continually, behaves as a well-organized force, constantly pushing its agenda non-stop, but the left only really can push its agenda in rare instances where working class people happen to spontaneously come together enough to push back. The right is thus always at an inherent advantage in this way.
These spontaneous coming-togethers, though, tend to be short lived and disintegrate over time. Hence, if that “pushing back” doesn’t lead to an overthrow of the capitalist class, and the transfer of these major centralized financial institutions out of the hands of the oligarchs and into the hands of working people, then any gains become short lived as eventually the spontaneous working class organizations will either disintegrate or become defanged and ineffective over time, allowing for whatever gains they achieved to be rolled back.
I don’t really have a disagreement with what you’re saying, but please note I said ‘right wing base’, which is predominantly working class.
Social democratic policies can be successful where class consciousness is lacking or suppressed.
Yes, oligarchs have corrupted as many politicians as they are able. But ignoring that the Democrats are still the only party standing up for any human rights at all is ignorant.
If you are only participating in the general election, you are part of the problem.
It’s like how the Republican party might not actually be racist - at least, not all Republicans are racist - but somehow almost all of the racists are Republican.
In the same way, yes, a lot of Democrats - and the “establishment” wing of the Democrat party is shitty and corrupt, but where do you think the change is coming from? Change that has any chance of success? Recently, it’s started to self-identify as DSA. DSA is not a party, it is an organization. Anyone running as DSA runs… wait for it… as a Democrat. (Maybe you can find someone not affiliated, but it’s gonna be rare).
Our political system will naturally tend toward TWO PARTIES always. So a third party is always a waste of your vote - UNLESS you can build that third party support to take over one of the two existing parties.
So how do we fix this mess?
- In the general, vote for the less insane option. If that’s an establishment Democrat running against a fascist, suck it up, bub, and don’t fucking shoot yourself in the foot
- In the primaries, vote for the best option. But also: Donate if you’re able. Volunteer to campaign if you can - letter writing, texting, et cetera. Support the candidate you want
- Consider running for office if you’re able
- Lend whatever support you can to those who are actually standing up for change
- Balance holding their feet to the fire and remembering that if you fucking destroy candidates because they don’t meet your high standards, you’ll be left with the fucking corrupt pieces of shit and the fascists like we have now
Demonizing ALL Democrats because a lot of them are, in fact, corrupt only helps fascists.
Getting you to go “BOTH SIDES” and give up is what the fucking fascists want.
So OP is probably not a fascist, but this post certainly helps the fascists, unless it actually inspired people to support progressive candidates. But most of these types of posts don’t do that, they cause people to say “Fuck all politicians!” and so the fascists win, because that’s exactly what they fucking want.
The guys that did a genocide care about human rights?
You’re right, we should totally sit this one out again and not vote. Because that worked so well last time.
When the fuck did I say don’t do anything? Why do you assume not wanting to endorse fascism is an advocacy for doing nothing instead of an advocacy against fascism and for socialism instead?
Because these kinds of posts and comments tend to only come up in the leadup to an election.
People were constantly criticising both parties for funding the genocide the entire time there’s been a genocide. You must not be in any vocal communities if you only see criticisms during election times. Pop outside your bubble every once in a while.
Balance holding their feet to the fire and remembering that if you fucking destroy candidates because they don’t meet your high standards, you’ll be left with the fucking corrupt pieces of shit and the fascists like we have now
Pray tell, WHAT FUCKING HIGH STANDARDS? Not being knee deep in genocide blood money? Not meeting with Hitler II’s son-in-law for secret negotiations? Actually having progressive policies instead of vague allusions to egg prices? What? Tell us! What is so ‘unreasonable’ here?
What are we supposed to slacken up on? The genocide, the collaborationism or the hope of have anything actually change? Which?
but somehow almost all of the racists are Republican.
Completely disagree. Maybe Republicans are more vocally racist, but there are way too many racists within the Democratic Party to act like most of them are Republican.
Ignoring problems within the Democratic party doesn’t help me in any way. Helping the Democrats doesn’t help me, because they don’t believe in defeating Republicans, they want to collaborate with them. I lost faith in the Democratic Party 26 years ago when they accepted Bush stealing the election; and they’ve done nothing to restore it.
So it’s cool for the DSA to tell people to not vote for kamla in 2020, effectively helping Trump win? Does that not also count as choosing fascism over a less socialist agenda?
Liberals being disingenuous to blame their left-flank instead of the establishment’s failure to oppose fascism?
Crazy how that works, lol
Just intellectually lazy people punching down… wonder if there’s a correlation?
Did you think I wouldn’t read that or something? Because that literally says that Kamala is the same as Trump.
that literally says that Kamala is the same as Trump.
It literally doesn’t.
It DOES, however, say something you’d do well to take to heart:
The risk of a Trump presidency has grown because of her deliberate strategic choices. If Trump wins, the blame will lie squarely with Kamala Harris and the Democratic Party establishment.
They weren’t calling her out by lying about her being identical to the Mango Mussolini.
They were calling her out for being bad at the job of defeating him due to shitting on everyone who’s in any way anti-war or just morally opposed to genocide, as well as anyone with policy preferences to the Left of Reagan.
No? It says “our members deserve better because the two front runner candidates chose these same few stances on these key areas”.
If you read “these two are literally the same and you shouldn’t vote” then that’s pretty much on you.
My original reply was in regards to the 2020 election and had nothing to do with the current DSA page. So I stand by my statement that during the last presidential election, The far left spent just as much time attacking liberals as they did the Republicans while the Republicans only attacked to the left. And anyone using Israel as an excuse to not endorse Kamala in 2024 cared more about virtue signaling than actually minimizing harm. Everyone on the left knew that a trump presidency would be far more dangerous by every metric then a Kamala presidency, and that’s before you even take into account his ongoing attempts at interfering in elections.
My original reply was in regards to the 2020 election
You mean an election the Democrats won? So what are you complaining about, then?
I assumed the “2020” was a typo considering the context clues in the rest of your comment. Now I understand you’re just not worth arguing with.
I’ll take bullshit that you shat into your hand for $500
Correct, and now that the midterms are here, it’s time to start hating on the Democrats in toto. If we were to complete this harebrained analogy the far left punches right in order to protect the other end of the horseshoe.
democrats just haven’t had the chance to show their true colors! says a zoomer with no knowledge of history.
remember in the 90s when they pushed the crime bill, NAFTA and welfare reform? that wasn’t the republicans–which the youth hated. it was the democrats who passed all that bullshit, which had long-lasting effects on america.
you’re up shits creek right now because of the democrats. shove that into the end of your legal dispensary pre-roll and smoke it!
what was the difference between reagan in 1985 and clinton in 1995 other than a sax solo?
BTW, i don’t use the oxford comma because i graduated from oxford and we always considered it a way to separate the actually educated from the wannabes.
Love how the people in the comments are hyping up the “human rights” records of genocidal, pro police, we will outflank republicans to the right on the border democrats.
Republicans are the hammer, Democrats are the anvil.
Germany says hi :(
They said the Dems would,
Take away your privacy,
Nope it was maga
The patriot act was bipartisan. ALPRs are being installed in all states regardless of political affiliation. Data companies donate to politicians on both sides if the isle.
This isn’t a partisan thing.
Campist.
