cross-posted from: https://feddit.online/c/euro@feddit.online/p/1817064/germany-tightens-sick-leave-rules-medical-doctor-note-required-from-day-one-telephone-s

Germany’s Chancellor Merz:

We can no longer accept the extraordinarily high levels of sick leave in our companies.

We are abolishing sick leave by telephone and introducing the requirement to submit a medical certificate from the very first day of illness.

We know this is a tough decision. But we can no longer afford this competitive disadvantage caused by prolonged absences from work.

    • MohamedMoney@feddit.orgEnglish
      37·
      3 个月前

      What I still don’t get is that the afd benefits from this. It will be much worse for the working class when they achieve their goals.

      • Pechente@feddit.orgEnglish
        34·
        3 个月前

        Absolutely but for people to recognize that, they need to be at least somewhat well informed and a huge number of people are fed by targeted disinformation campaigns and will therefore not see this

      • matlag@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        11·
        3 个月前

        Same as in France I guess: the right tactic is to speak as few as possible while claiming you’re a workers party. Let the acting gov keep shooting itself in the foot repeatedly.

        Oligarchs controlled medias will do the rest.

      • Waterpumpee@lemmus.orgEnglish
        7·
        3 个月前

        thanks to the utterly stupid brandmauer they can play the perfect opferrolle and never have to make difficult descisions.

      • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.caEnglish
        8·
        3 个月前

        The thought pattern is not new, and it is anything but harmless. The Soviet Union put dissidents into psychiatric institutions with the diagnosis of “creeping schizophrenia.” Whoever rejected the system could only be sick in this logic. Exactly this pattern was on the stage of a German Federal Party Congress on Saturday, friendly packaged as a healing offer.

        Ah yes - it reminds of the Soviet Union, yes. Not anything closer to home. 😅

    • iocase@lemmy.zipEnglish
      6·
      3 个月前

      It’s the same in the UK with pants on head regarded laws and rulings. If citizens do something on their own initiative and it makes the local council look bad they throw the book at them i.e. that one guy who cleaned trash out of a harbor after pleading for years for the local council to do it. Once he did it himself the council threw the book at him for “environmental impact” my fucking ass…

      Its like Britain and Germany are in a race to see who can any % speed run Hitler 2.0 rising to power… They both seemingly loathe the working class.

    • BigShammy80@feddit.orgEnglish
      3·
      3 个月前

      What do you mean by “less likable”? There is nothing “less” anymore, he’s ground zero of likeable.

      But well, apparently it’s the time of stupid leaders around the world…

  • reluctant_squidd@lemmy.cadeleted by creatorEnglish
    75·
    3 个月前

    Don’t forget the big middle finger this gives to doctors, who most likely have too much paperwork to do now.

      • bob_lemon@feddit.orgEnglish
        23·
        3 个月前

        The employer never gets to see the diagnosis and is also forbidden from directly asking the employee. That won’t change in this reform either.

        But the workload for doctors will skyrocket if employees with a common cold cannot simply call off from work without going to the doctor.

        (Not to mention the fact that the doctor will then declare you sick for a week instead of people staying home for just 1-2 days)

        • azimir@lemmy.mlEnglish
          13·
          3 个月前

          Oh yeah! If the doc says one or two days (it’s a cold), but it lingers a bit, that person gets to come back to the doc on day 3. A smart doc will just write it for a week and tell you to rest up good.

  • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.caEnglish
    60·
    3 个月前

    We know this is a tough decision. But we can no longer afford this competitive disadvantage caused by prolonged absences from work.

    The disadvantage:

    Country Average Weeks/Days per Year
    Finland ~4.8 weeks (~24 days)
    France ~4.1 weeks (~20.5 days)
    Portugal ~4.0 weeks (~20 days)
    Germany ~3.9 weeks (~19-20 days)
    Belgium ~3.9 weeks (~19.5 days)
    • matlag@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      31·
      3 个月前

      Neo-liberalism: as long as you’re not aligned with the lowest pay, the longest working hours, the least time off, the least benefits, you’re suffering from “competitive diadvantage”, and you need to “fix it”.

    • silberwoelfin@lemmy.worldEnglish
      4·
      3 个月前

      But… but… you are looking at the wrong countries!!1!11 You are looking at (more or less) reasonable european countries, when you should be comparing with the countries Merz would like to compete with: USA, China, Japan, etc…

      [/ironie]

      • jenesaisquoi@feddit.orgEnglish
        11·
        3 个月前

        It is days taken, always. There is no illness days limit per year as is common in the USA. In Europe, if you’re ill, you’re ill, for as many days as you are ill.

        • Vincent@feddit.nlEnglish
          3·
          3 个月前

          Though at some point you’ll get put on some plan of the government and stop being a “burden” to the employer. At least, that’s in my country - I don’t think that this is necessarily aligned across the EU, let alone Europe.

      • wieson@feddit.orgEnglish
        8·
        3 个月前

        It’s about sick leave, so there’s no limit on “available” days. If you’re sick, you’re out.
        In short: days taken.

  • CosmoNova@lemmy.worldEnglish
    59·
    3 个月前

    It‘s just really irrational on so many levels but that‘s the current German government for you.

    • jenesaisquoi@feddit.orgEnglish
      18·
      3 个月前

      German voters: well, voting for the right hasn’t worked - they haven’t done anything for the common people. We should try voting for nazis next.

      Left/Green: hi there I have many things I want to improve for the common people!

      German voters: go fuck yourself.

    • nomad@infosec.pubEnglish
      1·
      3 个月前

      Well they are appearing to do something. Its an emotional appeal to the people not to vote just to change anything as it appeals to the crowd that thinks that at this point change at any cost is the way forward. They might even not vote for the AFD. Not that I think that’s a winning strategy, but they compete with xenophobia being acceptable again which is an almost laughably hard to defeat strategy as it plays into a factor present in all humans.

  • tomiant@piefed.worldEnglish
    51·
    3 个月前

    I hate this passionately, for so many reasons.

    They talk about how socialism breeds “nanny states”. How is this ultra conservative move not nannyism?

    Did all of these fucking people go to school in the 1890’s?

    • jenesaisquoi@feddit.orgEnglish
      13·
      2 个月前

      Right so the problem here is that you suffer from this left-wing thinking that there should be consistency in words, actions, rules.

      While conservatism is about having an in-group who the rules protect but do not bind, and an out-group who the rules bind but do not protect. There not being equality and consistency is the point.

      • crapwittyname@feddit.ukEnglish
        7·
        3 个月前

        And, almost comically, the people who create all the wealth through honest work are firmly in the out-group, and not to be trusted.

      • tomiant@piefed.worldEnglish
        2·
        2 个月前

        I’m just lashing out at the blatant hypocrisy, but honestly, what is the point? What is that quote- they know they don’t make sense. They don’t have to. They’ll just swamp you with whatever because really, they just don’t give a shit and will take whatever they can from everyone at everyone’s expense.

  • JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.socialEnglish
    45·
    3 个月前

    IIRC this flawed arrangement is in common with Japan, and often leads to sick notes made for days or more just to make sure the patient doesn’t have to go get one sick leave note per day, meaning unexpected vacations, commonly.

    So already knowing how that works, is this just performative politics by Merz?

    • tomi000@lemmy.worldEnglish
      12·
      3 个月前

      This is absolutely how it will play out. Until now I took 1 or 2 sick days a year, I dont really get sick often. From now on, I will make sure my doctor prescribes 2 weeks of rest per occasion.

    • zurohki@aussie.zoneEnglish
      6·
      3 个月前

      It’s the fun part of using doctors as truancy police - they have no reason not to just recommend two weeks off for everyone who walks through the door. Because honestly most people could use it.

    • gedfromgont@piefed.caEnglish
      3·
      3 个月前

      Japan may be a good comparison on the rule side of things, but culturally how sick leave is taken, I am not sure.

      On the one hand people in Japan seem to be more concerned about not getting others (or themselves) sick, seeing as they constantly wear face masks (already pre-pandemic), on the other hand the work culture seems more cut-throat so they may have more pressure to come in even while sick, not sure.

  • square@lemmy.zipEnglish
    27·
    3 个月前

    This will backfire.

    Before I retired, I got put on what my employer called a “sick leave letter” which means they thought I was abusing sick leave. Which was ridiculous, I had used only about 20% of the sick leave I had earned during my career and had a huge bank of time, but they said they thought there was “a pattern” because it was often in conjunction with my weekend. This sick leave letter required a doctor’s note every time, instead of only for prolonged absences.

    You know what doctors don’t tell you? They don’t tell you to “suck it up and get back to work as soon as you can drag yourself in”, which was my M.O… You know what they do tell you? They do tell you to take at least a week off, two if you can.

    As I said, I had a huge bank of time. After two times where 1-2 days became two weeks, which I gladly took and turned into vacations, I started asking if they really wanted me to go to a doctor (which involved me spending about an hour going down the road to urgent care and spending a $20 copay to get a note for two weeks) or if I could just take a day or two. They, smartly, told me not to bother, which I required in writing. The sick leave letter expired eventually and I never heard any bullshit again.

    TL;DR: Doctors tell you to take more time off than most people take on their own.

  • iocase@lemmy.zipEnglish
    27·
    3 个月前

    Hey doc I have a cold. I’m also really burned out from work so it wouldn’t hurt if you required me 2 weeks off paid that my employer just has to accept.

    Doctors note mandate suddenly and inexplicably reverts

    • TJA!@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      11·
      3 个月前

      No, the next step is that sick leave is not paid anymore. So that you have to work sick or else you are losing money.

  • rustydrd@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    24·
    3 个月前

    Answering the question why Merz is the least popular chancellor in the history of the Federal Republic of Germany.

  • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyzEnglish
    23·
    3 个月前

    Fucking dickass fascist.

    “Good morning, oh no I’m vomiting my guts up, can barely go 20 minutes without explosive diarrhea, and I’m bed-ridden from excruciating abdominal pain. Better get to the doctor so I don’t have to go to work today.”

    What the fuck kind of hellhole is this? The billionaires are rich enough already.

    Competitive advantage my ass.

    • DdCno1@beehaw.orgEnglish
      4·
      3 个月前

      Worth noting that there already are many employers in Germany who demand a notice from the doctor (and not one via telephone) from day one. In fact, I’ve never had one that does not, both public and private.

      It’s still stupid to codify this idiocy into law for everyone.

      • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        2·
        3 个月前

        And who is supposed to deliver the note from the doctor to the employer? The sick person? What if they’re contagious?

        If it were me, I’d cough all over the note before handing it directly to the bossman

        • DdCno1@beehaw.orgEnglish
          2·
          3 个月前

          It’s transmitted electronically these days.

          In the past, you could just hand it in later once you were healthy or send it by mail.

    • Damage@feddit.itEnglish
      3·
      3 个月前

      I mean, that’s how it’s been in Italy forever. Some doctors are willing to diagnose you over the phone, but they risk legal repercussions, so either they come visit you at home when their office visiting hours are over, or you drag yourself to their office, potentially infecting a lot people.

    • Summzashi@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      3 个月前

      Good point, but such a disgustingly tone deaf statement of calling current day Germany fascist is not only wrong but completely unnecessary.

      • tomiant@piefed.worldEnglish
        9·
        3 个月前

        Reminds me of Eric Wildman, proponent of corporal punishment in schools in the 1940’s. He went to speak at a school, but the headmaster had set him up so when he got there the students jumped him and beat his ass with canes.

  • AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.worldEnglish
    17·
    3 个月前

    If you’re genuinely having an issue with a sick workforce then you build better healthcare and preventative care services.