I’m a vegan, although not super strict. But I knew some terror vegans who do not consider vigs vegan.
The definition of “vegan” differs. Like, I don’t like products that had a nervous system. So technically I could eat oysters. But some vegans consider oranges not to be vegan because there might be an animal product in the pesticides used on oranges. Some claim they only use plant based products, but they get mad when I ask them about fungi, as their cell structure looks more like an animal cell than a plant cell (I love to make terror vegans mad).
Being vegan means you buy products which fit your idea of being vegan.
And sadly for some it means you need to be a fucking asshole to anyone you meet.
Regarding your last paragraph: that’s unrelated. There are also lots of insufferably vocal meat eaters who feel personally attacked when someone else doesn’t religiously stuff themselves with meat every meal.
I live in Bavaria. There are multiple politicians who don’t get tired to performatively eat sausages and try to make laws that mandate calling oat milk “oat drink” and vegan burgers/schnitzel/… anything else. As if anyone would ever get confused by that. There’s a common joke that they should rename “scouring milk” to “scouring drink” otherwise people get confused!!!
Veganism are the consumption practices of people advocating for animal liberation. It’s not just about diet but also leather jackets/zoo visits etc. It’s not like being part of an animal that imbues the individual molecules with some mystic energy that renders them off limits, it’s that 99.99% of the time that obtaining these molecules in sufficient quantities requires overstepping boundaries of consent if not outright murder/slavery.
But I would consider scavenged meat for instance vegan, I still wouldn’t because meat gives me the ick now, but I don’t see how it is contrary to animal liberation (provided it doesn’t disrupt other animals mourning rituals or something similar). Or rescued sheep still require shearing. It’s not as brutal as farmers shearing and obviously not done with the wool in mind but rather the sheep. So the sheep are typically shorn(?) sooner than enslaved sheep and not as close to the skin, making “vegan wool” quite a bit harder to work with, but I would consider socks made out of that wool vegan.
That is one definition of vegan, and you seem to be happy living by it. But others might have other definitions. A good chunk does not even share your motivation for being vegan, there are plenty of religious practices, dietary reasons, ecological concerns… That doesn’t diminish your definition of it, but that is something to keep in mind when talking about other people.
No this is what veganism is. Veganism goes back to the Vegan Society and it’s fight for the rights of non-human animals. Many people claim to be vegan without actually being vegan and I will not be diluting the definition. Veganism is at it’s core about animal rights. There are plenty of reasons to go with a plant-based diet. A plant-based diet is part of veganism, but they are very much not the same thing. If someone claims to be vegan but still goes to the zoo or buys pets they did not understand what veganism is.
Edit: here is the vegan societies definition
“Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.”
Also depends on whether you consider fungi an animal of a plant. As their cell structure resembles more of animal cells than plant cells. And fungi are everywhere. Humans, animals and plants would all die if fungi would seize to exist. They are in our body, create our food and medicine, they are the cycle of life as they break down dead tissue, they feed plants and trees. The oldest living organism is a fungus. They are what keep us all alive, they are basically mother earth. And we eat that. Seeing The Last Of Us suddenly makes a lot of sense. Revenge of the fungi.
I guess it depends on if people think roadkill is vegan; the dead wasp is part of the life cycle of the wasp/fig symbiosis so its going to die well before humans intervene.
Imo the argument could be made that by clearing land for vegetables there’s a large reduction in habitable natural environments. This results in things dying that normally wouldn’t. Especially true when you consider pesticides.
So is the problem the dead bug in the fig or the dead bug outside, say, an apple?
I’ve only been vegan for eight years. I really don’t know what I’m talking about. I’ve never really researched it. I just don’t need animal products. But it seems like eating anything that was an animal or has an animal in it isn’t vegan
Fuck goose down
And I mean, where do we draw the line? There’s microscopic organisms that we kill all the time
Imo, don’t think about it too hard. I think it makes more sense to eat creatures based on a mix of survivorship curve and whether they are intelligent enough to need to be confined.
If you’re building infrastructure more to contain animals rather than keep other ones out, imo that’s the pivot point.
Idealized survivorship curves:
Type 1 and 2 are easy no’s. Type 3 is generally fine as long as its not like an adult turtle or octopus. Type 3 organisms are probably going to get eaten a lot and early in nature while its rare for the adults to get eaten.
Wild figs may be but as soon as you’re cultivating fig varieties that require the fig wasp, you are artificially increasing the wasp population specifically to perish, in order to sustain human horticulture. Much like honey or milk, the fact you don’t eat the animal’s flesh might still defy the spirit of ‘no animal exploitation’. Most pollinators do not explicitly perish as part of pollination; figs are one of the foods vegans may disagree on.
The good news is that there are a small number of fig varieties that can be fertilised without the wasp (either by hand, or self-pollinating clones). In a lot of countries this is the variety that may be grown because importing wasps could be ecologically dangerous.
Wild figs may be but as soon as you’re cultivating fig varieties that require the fig wasp, you are artificially increasing the wasp population specifically to perish, in order to sustain human horticulture.
That’s still different to animal exploitation. Veganism are the consumption practices of people advocating for animal liberation. This is not contrary to that, “milk” and “honey” are produced by the animals for a specific reason, namely their young. Even if it were possible to obtain them without harming the animal (and there isn’t, both require animal death if they are to be produced in consumer quantities) there still is the problem of consent. It is clear that bees and cows under normal circumstances do not want to give away their milk/honey. The wasp however is already dead, it is not harmed by eating the fig and it’s consent is no longer part of the equation.
If the fig cultivation reaches a level where the wasps have to be kept under circumstances similar to the bees then yes I wouldn’t consider the figs that require these wasps to be vegan.
Not completely true. There’s a tick which can make you allergic to animal cell structures, basically making you vegan. So lab grown meat would still be a no no. For me, I want to eat plant (and fungi) based products so I don’t want lab grown meat (although I would like to try it once). I think lab grown meat is amazing, because people who desperately want to eat meat can do so without feeding the fucked up meat industry. Less livestock means less chance on virus mutation, so less chance of pandemics. I think this is the most important reason to reduce global livestock.
They don’t have the same sugars in their blood as mammals, the tick borne allergen that makes people allergic to meat only makes them allergic to mammal meat, and really only for a few years
Depends. There is also a severe version where you get allergic to all animal cells, so including milk and eggs. I think there’s a vegan who created this tick after years of development in their basement hehe
TIL figs aren’t vegan
I’m a vegan, although not super strict. But I knew some terror vegans who do not consider vigs vegan.
The definition of “vegan” differs. Like, I don’t like products that had a nervous system. So technically I could eat oysters. But some vegans consider oranges not to be vegan because there might be an animal product in the pesticides used on oranges. Some claim they only use plant based products, but they get mad when I ask them about fungi, as their cell structure looks more like an animal cell than a plant cell (I love to make terror vegans mad).
Being vegan means you buy products which fit your idea of being vegan.
And sadly for some it means you need to be a fucking asshole to anyone you meet.
Regarding your last paragraph: that’s unrelated. There are also lots of insufferably vocal meat eaters who feel personally attacked when someone else doesn’t religiously stuff themselves with meat every meal.
Oh, do tell.
I live in Bavaria. There are multiple politicians who don’t get tired to performatively eat sausages and try to make laws that mandate calling oat milk “oat drink” and vegan burgers/schnitzel/… anything else. As if anyone would ever get confused by that. There’s a common joke that they should rename “scouring milk” to “scouring drink” otherwise people get confused!!!
But do they realize all atoms eventually cycle through the ecosystem?
I’m sure all carbon atoms were part of animal at some point. I guess your fake vegans are just molecular vegans and not atomic vegans.
Hahaha next time I meet one who is starting a discussion to fish (pun intended) for something to trigger on, I now have the perfect comeback 😎
“you’re just a molecular vegan, not an atomic vegan, you’re just a poser”
Veganism are the consumption practices of people advocating for animal liberation. It’s not just about diet but also leather jackets/zoo visits etc. It’s not like being part of an animal that imbues the individual molecules with some mystic energy that renders them off limits, it’s that 99.99% of the time that obtaining these molecules in sufficient quantities requires overstepping boundaries of consent if not outright murder/slavery.
But I would consider scavenged meat for instance vegan, I still wouldn’t because meat gives me the ick now, but I don’t see how it is contrary to animal liberation (provided it doesn’t disrupt other animals mourning rituals or something similar). Or rescued sheep still require shearing. It’s not as brutal as farmers shearing and obviously not done with the wool in mind but rather the sheep. So the sheep are typically shorn(?) sooner than enslaved sheep and not as close to the skin, making “vegan wool” quite a bit harder to work with, but I would consider socks made out of that wool vegan.
That is one definition of vegan, and you seem to be happy living by it. But others might have other definitions. A good chunk does not even share your motivation for being vegan, there are plenty of religious practices, dietary reasons, ecological concerns… That doesn’t diminish your definition of it, but that is something to keep in mind when talking about other people.
No this is what veganism is. Veganism goes back to the Vegan Society and it’s fight for the rights of non-human animals. Many people claim to be vegan without actually being vegan and I will not be diluting the definition. Veganism is at it’s core about animal rights. There are plenty of reasons to go with a plant-based diet. A plant-based diet is part of veganism, but they are very much not the same thing. If someone claims to be vegan but still goes to the zoo or buys pets they did not understand what veganism is.
Edit: here is the vegan societies definition
- https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/definition-veganism
I’m just saying this specific fruit has a literal animal inside of it
All fruits have that, if you enhance your view enough. Put any fruit under a microscope and it’s crawling with creatures.
Where do we draw the line? Seems like it’s impossible not to eat an animal
Also depends on whether you consider fungi an animal of a plant. As their cell structure resembles more of animal cells than plant cells. And fungi are everywhere. Humans, animals and plants would all die if fungi would seize to exist. They are in our body, create our food and medicine, they are the cycle of life as they break down dead tissue, they feed plants and trees. The oldest living organism is a fungus. They are what keep us all alive, they are basically mother earth. And we eat that. Seeing The Last Of Us suddenly makes a lot of sense. Revenge of the fungi.
Idk isn’t that like saying all animal pollinated plants are not vegan?
Well, this one’s got a literal animal inside of it… Is all I’m saying
This one doesn’t either, it’s just a ghost.
Eating ghosts is vegan
I guess it depends on if people think roadkill is vegan; the dead wasp is part of the life cycle of the wasp/fig symbiosis so its going to die well before humans intervene.
Imo the argument could be made that by clearing land for vegetables there’s a large reduction in habitable natural environments. This results in things dying that normally wouldn’t. Especially true when you consider pesticides.
So is the problem the dead bug in the fig or the dead bug outside, say, an apple?
I’ve only been vegan for eight years. I really don’t know what I’m talking about. I’ve never really researched it. I just don’t need animal products. But it seems like eating anything that was an animal or has an animal in it isn’t vegan
Fuck goose down
And I mean, where do we draw the line? There’s microscopic organisms that we kill all the time
Imo, don’t think about it too hard. I think it makes more sense to eat creatures based on a mix of survivorship curve and whether they are intelligent enough to need to be confined.
If you’re building infrastructure more to contain animals rather than keep other ones out, imo that’s the pivot point.
Idealized survivorship curves:
Type 1 and 2 are easy no’s. Type 3 is generally fine as long as its not like an adult turtle or octopus. Type 3 organisms are probably going to get eaten a lot and early in nature while its rare for the adults to get eaten.
I’m a level five vegan. I don’t eat anything that Casts a shadow
Wait until you find out what fossil fuels are made of
Mostly plants and plankton?
Are zooplankton vegan?
They are most fruit require insect pollination, as long there is no forced labor or murder it’s still vegan
Depends on the vegan you’re talking to.
Wild figs may be but as soon as you’re cultivating fig varieties that require the fig wasp, you are artificially increasing the wasp population specifically to perish, in order to sustain human horticulture. Much like honey or milk, the fact you don’t eat the animal’s flesh might still defy the spirit of ‘no animal exploitation’. Most pollinators do not explicitly perish as part of pollination; figs are one of the foods vegans may disagree on.
The good news is that there are a small number of fig varieties that can be fertilised without the wasp (either by hand, or self-pollinating clones). In a lot of countries this is the variety that may be grown because importing wasps could be ecologically dangerous.
That’s still different to animal exploitation. Veganism are the consumption practices of people advocating for animal liberation. This is not contrary to that, “milk” and “honey” are produced by the animals for a specific reason, namely their young. Even if it were possible to obtain them without harming the animal (and there isn’t, both require animal death if they are to be produced in consumer quantities) there still is the problem of consent. It is clear that bees and cows under normal circumstances do not want to give away their milk/honey. The wasp however is already dead, it is not harmed by eating the fig and it’s consent is no longer part of the equation.
If the fig cultivation reaches a level where the wasps have to be kept under circumstances similar to the bees then yes I wouldn’t consider the figs that require these wasps to be vegan.
So vegans could eat unemployed animals that die of natural causes?
scavenging is considered yucky but I don’t see any reason to consider it unethical per se unless it disrupts other animals mourning rituals
Vegan can eat meat produced in labs.
Not completely true. There’s a tick which can make you allergic to animal cell structures, basically making you vegan. So lab grown meat would still be a no no. For me, I want to eat plant (and fungi) based products so I don’t want lab grown meat (although I would like to try it once). I think lab grown meat is amazing, because people who desperately want to eat meat can do so without feeding the fucked up meat industry. Less livestock means less chance on virus mutation, so less chance of pandemics. I think this is the most important reason to reduce global livestock.
Were you to try poisoning me to make me stop eating meat, I would eat fish, and birds
Birds and fish don’t have meat?
They don’t have the same sugars in their blood as mammals, the tick borne allergen that makes people allergic to meat only makes them allergic to mammal meat, and really only for a few years
Depends. There is also a severe version where you get allergic to all animal cells, so including milk and eggs. I think there’s a vegan who created this tick after years of development in their basement hehe
I agree with you, but this fruit has a literal animal inside of it
See my comment here https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/19570004