When this all crashes to the ground it’s going to be ugly.
Can’t happen soon enough. Few people want AI and now it will fuck over a bunch of people very directly. No idea how long the investors can keep inflating this bubble now.
Local and self controled AI has some really cool applications. When I can afford it, replacing my home security cameras with something that stays local and not sent to the cloud is on my list of things to do. When I do that having a local AI do image recognition and tying it into my home assistant setup will be a cool project.
Yeah you need hardware for that. They’re making it so we can’t get hardware and we can’t self-host.
You don’t think China sees the vacuum left from the current players exiting consumer markets? The protectionism playbook that the US has run is catching up to bite us in the ass, which will be accelerated now that China has EUV.
That and I expect used enterprise hardware to continue to be sold. I have an old hotel check-in computer as my current router running OPNSense.
China “has EUV” lithography in the same way ASML had it in 2001:
ASML built its first working prototype of EUV technology in 2001, and told Reuters it took nearly two decades and billions of euros in R&D spending before it produced its first commercially-available chips in 2019.
They are still an awful long way behind the west in this regard.
China isn’t pioneering the technology. They aren’t operating in a vacuum. They won’t have to wait 20 years to make it all work.
Sure, it probably wont take then as long, but its still misleading to portray “China reaches milestone a western company did a quarter of a century ago” as being equivalent to catching up.
There’s the ai that works well, has many useful applications and reasonable hardware requirements, and there’s the generative ai fucking everything and not giving us a proportional return in usefulness
Do it! It’s super easy with Frigate addon for home assistant. There’s nice blueprints to handle the mobile notifications when you are out.
Look into Frigate
I haven’t yet seen where use of AI hasn’t made things worse.
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Agents: Every instance of AI for “customer service” I’ve run into basically just closed cases for invalid reasons, spouted bullshit, and was used to block interacting with a real human, trapping users in infinite loops (thanks eBay) or disconnecting on them (thanks PayPal)
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Security: M365 seems to be relying heavily on this now, which means that the same phishing email which was successfully blocked last week will randomly get through a few times this week for no apparent reason
*Coding: sometimes useful, but also points to do stuff like reference functions that don’t actually exist in the API/language being used
I no longer deal with spam calls all day long because they get routed to Google Assistant/Gemini first and the AI agent filters the call for me. It has been pretty great like 99% of the time, I fully expect Google to kill it somehow.
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They already planned and built many data centers by then and will use them. It‘s going to be cloud services all the way. Desktops or even capable phones will be a thing of the past as everyone expects you to source out computing power to a subscription service. We will own nothing. It‘s peak capitalism.
You would need more ram to do that. Understand the difference between primary and secondary memory.
RAM will be cheap! So will the dollar… Maybe I can get a good deal on upgrades to my server by reclaiming the gold in the contacts?
Ugly, yes, but also cheap.
But we might scoop up loads of cheap RAM, hard drives and a nice GPU!
Unless you’re planning on buying the whole rack you’re not scooping up anything, except maybe the hard drives. The memory and GPUs are not consumer grade hardware. Some of the GPUs you technically could hook up to your PC, for example the Nvidia A6000, but its launch price was ~$4500 so even on the cheaper end you’re shelling out probably $3000 for a card that (out the box) is marginally better than the 4070ti. Most of the GPUs and pretty much all of the memory is not compatible with your standard consumer grade MoBos.
Yeah I was a bit ironic, like just wait plebs you might get to buy the used hardware when I’m done with it.
So when that happens… Is there gonna be like a memory auction? Will I have to buy a whole ai training rig just to get the RAM?
I’ll just take your best guess.
there will probably be a flood of cheap hardware/server equipment flooding the second hand market, yes
It’s not a shortage, it’s billionaires hoarding the existing supply.
So essentially scalpers.
Yup.
Damn so we really aren’t always going to have calculators :'(
Yeah, so this is the part where the market regulates itself? Y’know, the part where ultra billionaires just dump money by the boatloads to buy up stuff that everyone needs?
Capitalism will ONLY work if we put hard caps on how much wealth a single person can hoard. Billionaires shouldn’t exist. Millionaires shouldn’t exist. There is no need for them and there is no human right somewhere that says that you really van become one.
Any wealth over 1 million should be taxed 100%, doesn’t matter the country.
With that, we can say goodbye to hundreds of problems that plague the world, including this one
This platform is so incredibly out of touch with reality, especially the more left leaning side of things.
A millionaire these days just means you’ve paid off your mortgage and have a decent amount put away for retirement.
A million ain’t what it used to be. You want to retire so you need to invest. You don’t want to pass laws that make that impossible.
But if you had free healthcare, UBI, and your home is paid off, would you really need to save that much?
If your home is paid off you could have over a million already
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Any middle-class person who puts their mind to it will become a millionaire. It involves living below your means, not buying cars constantly, and investing your money for decades. I can’t stress enough how big of a difference those things make.
A huge portion of retirees are millionaires because they were responsible and didn’t blow all their money.
Millionaires shouldn’t exist.
Why would you want responsible, middle-class retirees to blow their money instead? Why would you force them into a situation where they have to rely on others in their retirement rather than living comfortably off their own hard work?
Very much so, even someone in the trades could well be a millionaire when they retire.
My dad’s house that he bought in 2006 is worth over 1 million, how do you tax that
…What forces defend these datacenters? Could a platoon of motivated civilians armed with pump action shotguns carry all the RAM out of one?
They use a different kind of RAM.
It’s the capacity to make RAM and the materials required to make RAM that is going to datacenters.
They use a different kind of RAM.
I probably got an adapter lying around somewhere
What’s more is they use HBM RAM, which is very complicated to build and has a much lower yield than the much-cheaper-to-make consumer ram.
So, not only are they dedicating all of their resources to billionaire assholes with fantasies of mind control over the masses, but they’re also wasting much more materials and energy to make this stupid ram.
This you? :P
Yes? Check out my posts too, lots of ai.
Do you have a point besides being a creep?
So you’re mad about computers being built to run LLMs but you use them constantly? That makes no sense.
Because we live in a binary world with nothing other than absolute polarity.
I hate LLM, i also use LLM.
How can it be true?! The hypocrisy!
It’s almost like it’s not a black and white issue, and there’s a whole lot of in between…that’s clearly not your game however. Looking forward to the next Gotcha™ from you tho. See ya later.
So we should just straight-up vandalize them? As much property damage as possible, forget the shotguns, bring bulldozers, gasoline and road flares?
Lemmy.world runs from a data center, and virtually all other instances
Oh no!
Anyway…
So we would not be able to have this conversation unless something more decentralized appears
It is my understanding that sh.itjust.works is hosted on hardware that is in The_Dude’s physical possession, so I think we could manage.
Except you would have only your server to talk with
You should target their internet connection. Fiber cables are easier to damage and harder to protect. It’s also easier to fix so longer, organized campaign would be needed but I think it would be possible to avoid capture for longer.
Whose this “you” you refer to? XD
You. When you said “we should” that does kinda imply you’re willing to engage in this as well :P
Now let’s be clear here: I’m only inciting violence. My person committing violence may or may not occur, your honor/ladies and gentlemen of the jury.
The same as your “we”. I assume you have some group ready to go.
No but anyone with a a cheap vintage military rifle with 2000 yard/meter iron sights could reek havoc by lobbing a few bullets at a data center like a mortar from extreme range. Probable wouldn’t do any critical damage but eventually someone would realize that those loud cracks are bullets and they would have to evacuate every time, forensic teams would have to come in a scour the entire place for bullet fragments and impacts. It would be a massive expensive pain in the ass. The security and insurance cost would be insane. That might put some cold water on the market.
They would have to start building these things inside the restricted Nevada test range if enough people took up this new hobby.
You remember a few years ago when some random town in North Carolina made the national news because some Proud Boys shot out the substation because there was a drag show at a local downtown theater?
I’m from there.
What I learned in those four days without refrigeration or air conditioning is that substations aren’t bulletproof.
Yep, I’m from NC too. When shit gets real it’s going to be normal to not have water, power, cellphones and internet because we sold all of our critical infrastructure to parasites who extort us but won’t spend a dime on redundancy. People really underestimate how quickly and easily this country could be shut down when the critical boiling point is reached.
Data centers will consume…
No, data centers that are slated to be built say they’ll consume. If they don’t get built because they run out of funding or the bubble bursts, then they won’t consume. They’re trying really fucking hard to make fetch happen.
They’re trying really fucking hard to make fetch happen.
Which is dumb because neofetch, fastfetch, hyfetch, and uwufetch all already exist!
You think they allow prices to go down?
Hold on while I use AI to create an image of a dog in a funny hat!
As far as I know this user is a dog
Only good LLM is a deleted LLM, same goes for capitalists.
rm -rf capitalism/
Except there are zero contracts in place to actually build those data centers, nor is there enough power generated to run them. I really wish tech journalists would do the background to determine if what these documented liars are saying is even possible, never mind likely.
The fact that no new ram production capacity is being developed would indicate a lack of future contracts
We need a Breaking Bad-type scenario with memory chips.
Just a heads up. 91 billion in data centers is held up by local politics. Won’t be built. So expect this to soften the Ai market.
Doesn’t help they literally said they would stop producing chips and that they have done so.
Can we all buy cheap hardware when the bubble bursts and the billionaires decide not to pay the electricity bills for these ridiculous datacentres?
Unlike with the GPU shortage, where the cryptomining gpus could be used by regular consumers, the datacenter ram and so on is not usable on personal computers. It is all going to be e-waste, and we will still have a shortage after the bubble burst.
While it won’t be usable by consumers, lots of businesses will happily scoop up a rack for their own servers. Not only will a ton of demand vanish, but a ton of supply appears at the same time.
is datacenter ram really not usable on personal PC’s? I figured it was the same as consumer ram but with ECC features, but I haven’t gone out of my way to try and buy any.
They’re using the new SOCAMM standard, which current consumer hardware can’t use.
It’s a different physical interface.
Whether it will end up coming to consumer grade motherboards… 🤷♂️
man that sucks.
Well that sucks. I assumed the ram, ssds, hdds could be recycled into useful forms.
It’s possible someone would make it usable. A long time ago, I bought a laptop CPU that was soldered onto a board so it would go into a normal desktop socket. Guessing there was a glut of laptop CPUs at the time.
Yeah and the e-waste centers will clean up the hardware and resell it.
It’ll be a flood into the market. Supply and demand and all that.
Warning: spoiler
spoiler
No
Even if we would get and be able to use any hardwareit would have been ridden hard. Expected remaining lifespan may be low
Maybe we should manage these supply chain bottlenecks with AI.
