A new, thinner XPS 13 is also coming later this year.
1 Hz display option: like an e-Ink display?
(it says 120Hz in the article)
They might mean down to 1hz like some smart phones do, to save battery.
There’s a 1920 x 1200 non-touch display option, which will surely get you better battery life than OLED. But what’s most interesting about it is the 1-120 Hz variable refresh rate, which Dell says is a first to for this model. That extremely low refresh should help save power when static images or text is on the screen.
Ah yeah, I should have read the rest of the article. I didn’t know about that feature though, that’s cool
That’s slower than a car blinker. An impractical refresh rate for OLED; did you mean 1 fps?
Edit: turns out OLEDs, like LCDs, use TFT technology to stay on between refreshes so it’s fine.
And yes, smartphones have refrained from redrawing unchanged display areas for years. You can enable “Show surface updates” in Android developer settings (flashing lights warning) to get an idea. Usually, the display gets divided into vertical areas: status bar, main app, keyboard, navbar, and each only updates if there is a change.
1 Hz is 1 fps. Hertz = cycles per second
I know what hertz is, I’m en electrotechnician. The display’s refresh rate is measured in hertz, and has to be at least 40 Hz or you suffer from headaches and some from photosensitive epilepsy. (edit: only applies if the screen goes black between refreshes, which I just learned OLED, unlike CRTs, doesn’t.) Ideally 100 Hz or more. But the image (frames per second) does not have to change that often. For example, movies are 24 fps but 35mm film projectors are 72 Hz: they flash each frame 3x before advancing (using a three-blade shutter) because 24 Hz is seizure-inducing but using a unique picture for each refresh (72 fps) is expensive. Similarly, your OLED TV is 144 Hz when gaming at 144 fps (if you can afford that), when watching a 60fps gaming video or 24fps movie: the screen controller works the same all the time but the picture it’s fed changes more or less frequently.
If an OLED screen refreshed at 1 Hz,
you’d see a line going down the displayedit: I learned about TFT OLEDs which don’t do that. So it never goes below 60 Hz. However, the phone can reduce animation fps when the CPU can’t keep up or to save battery. 1 fps is extremely choppy though, I don’t know where OP got that. I did once use a phone capped to that framerate (via adbcontrol pre-Lollipop where the screenshot is transmitted over USB) and it was awfully non-responsive.It’s pretty silly to through around credentials.
Here’s a video of an OLED TV updating in slow motion. The pixels are on in between updates so it really doesn’t matter how fast it’s updating it’s not going to cause headaches or any of the problems that we used to associate with strobing style displays. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=54E3uUEryZM
Well, on some they aren’t.
But yes, TIL that some OLEDs do in fact work continuously thanks to TFTs
No, I meant what I said. The article says “hz” and so do other phone manufacturers offering the same feature. It may be marketing wank or technically incorrect but that’s what it’s referred to as.
But, hz of a monitor is not like a car blinker or CRT televisions where it’s off in between the updates. It is on in between the updates, it’s just not the new image. In which case it doesn’t matter how slow your performing the updates because the pixels are just on with a static picture in between the updates.
hz of a monitor is not like a car blinker or CRT televisions where it’s off in between the updates. It is on in between the updates
Yes, it is on OLED, unless they’ve added active storage like TFT LCDs. In which case, that’s cool technology they’ve invented.
It says 1-120 Hz in the article (for battery saving and e.g. ehen there’s static images on the display).
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Replacing the function keys with a capacitive bar was the stupidest thing they have ever done. So silly that even Apple walked back on that design choice.
Any serious laptop buyer would rule out a laptop just for that. And any casual buyer looking to spend XPS money on a laptop is going to buy a MacBook.
I’m glad the XPS line is back but unfortunately for Dell Windows is worse than ever.
My work gave me a Mac with this. I absolutely hated it - constantly triggering random things I didn’t want or need and apparently something about the wiring caused the physical keyboard to fail prematurely.
Fortunately we’ve moved on from those dark days. I still have to use a Mac, but at least there’s no touch bar.
Also Lenovo, who were the first ones to give than nonsense a whirl (X1 Carbon Gen 2, 2014).
Lenovo’s was present for just that single generation. Apple kept it for 6 generations over 7 years. Dell 4 generations, 3 years.
Can’t say I’ll miss any of them.
I feel like it doesn’t have to be either or? I’d like a touch bar in addition to fn keys. Too bad nobody is making that option.
I don’t see anything wrong with touch bar+proper control keys either. There isn’t anything inherently bad about a touch bar in itself.
But replacing your function keys with a touch bar is a bad idea. It’s not standard.
Sticking to standards plus giving other alternative control methods are fine. Kind of like how Asus implements a numpad into the toucpad. I think it’s a gimmick but it doesn’t hurt anyone.
The touch bar worked well for me on a Macbook. Most of the hotkeys there use cmd+something instead of the f-keys, so I needed the f-keys with only a couple apps, namely Double Commander. But what’s better, there are apps to put custom controls into the touch bar. The most useful one for me was the button to hand off the Bluetooth headphones from the laptop to the phone or vice versa (via a bash script of mine). Plus I could also have app-specific custom buttons.
When I last bought an XPS 13, there was an option for Ubuntu. I agree that many people will choose a Macbook, but the XPS line has been decent. Perhaps someday they will discover the third OS option.
I’ll never buy an xps again. Last one needed pretty much everything replacing, and within 3 years dell stopped manufacturing the battery!!
$2k on a laptop that’s a brick within 3 years?
Framework 13 all the way
I cancelled my framework 16 order because of their “big tent” policy meaning they give funding to Hyperland and Omarchy, I will not give my money to people who fund racists
Eh, I get it, but you can’t win every battle.
I have a 16 and a 13. I bought them both before that thread.
I am not expecting my single cancellation to make the slightest difference to their policy, they already made it clear that they are quite happy funding racists when multiple people have challenged them over it, and with one of their larger pots of cash they give out as well.
What I am getting out of is knowing I am not (indirectly) funding racists myself, rather than knowingly funding racists. I do not see it any different from buying products from Musk, if you did it ages ago then fine, but after, thats something else entirely.
I get it, but also if I stopped buying everything from every racist / racist supporter, I would have no real options for laptops generally speaking.
Michael Dell is a complete and total Trump supporter. Should I buy an XPS?
Tim Cook designed and delivered a custom award to Trump. Knowing this, should I buy an Apple?
I understand wanting to vote with your dollars but in practice there are few or no ethical options for many things that you can buy.
I wouldn’t buy a Dell because I wouldn’t trust the hardware, his position is just the icing. Whole reason I wanted the framework was because I wanted something to last a very long time, I simply do not trust Dell to provide support or parts long term.
The Tim Apple situation hurt, as I really liked the apple silicon for build quality and I had an old Intel Macbook that did indeed last a very long time (still boots even now). However their RAM/Storage pricing for what is an essential amount of storage for me mean even without Timmys boot licking making them a non starter.
I wont buy Nvidia because of their shitty Linux support, Huang being an absolute womble
Lenovo is about as good as you getting for a mainstream brand, and they are ultimately owned by the CCP so meh.
I think with Framework it particularly hurts as at least with Dell or Apple they are quite openly rimming Trump because it will give them competitive advantage and tax cuts while they never really pretended to be for the public good.
WTF do Framework get by supporting Hyperland or Omarchy? Its literary supporting your racist uncle who makes moonshine for half a dozen people when you set yourself up to be an ethical alternative whose current market is more likely to be ethical seeking. Imagine if Oxfam or Doctors without Borders started supporting Trump? World of difference from the NRA supporting Trump due to the starting position.
Lenovo is about as good as you getting for a mainstream brand, and they are ultimately owned by the CCP so meh.
In addition to being owned by the CCP, they purposely installed rootkits on consumer hardware for intense data gathering, and it ended up getting compromised.
Yeah, the whole situation sucks. I totally agree and wish that framework would reconsider their position on the matter.
The country is basically unrecognizable at this point IMO. The capitulation that has occurred so quickly in the second Trump term was stunning to behold. For a vast array of industries (computers being one of them), every reasonably ethical option feels like it flew out the window.
Tim Cook designed and delivered a custom award to Trump.
Which looked like a gold-plated plastic turd, but Trump likely can’t recognize that with his absence of taste. Apple so obviously could make something better-looking that I’ve had a solid chuckle seeing that shit, and my opinion of Apple hadn’t moved. In exchange for that piece of crap they’ve gotten Trump to lay his mitts off tariffs on what Apple needed, so sounds like a job well done to me. It’s not Apple’s business to topple an idiot that stupid USian public elected.
The turd was just the icing on top of the shit cake dude. They gave that jack off millions of dollars.
I’ve had a solid chuckle seeing that shit, and my opinion of Apple hadn’t moved.
Welp, then I guess you’re the type of customer they fully deserve.
What’s wrong with Omarchy?
Omarchy
DHH is pretty fucking racist, white replacement theory is right up there with the worst of racist beliefs
I thought I might move there one day. That was then. Now, I wouldn’t dream of it. London is no longer the city I was infatuated with in the late '90s and early 2000s. Chiefly because it’s no longer full of native Brits. In 2000, more than sixty percent of the city were native Brits. By 2024, that had dropped to about a third.
I’m a little miffed with framework actually.
I had a order with them that they chose to cancel because they just randomly charged the account one day months after I had pre-ordered something, and there wasn’t enough money in the account because I didn’t know when they were going to charge for it. They didn’t contact me or anything, they just cancelled the order. Thanks guys.
Edit: Deleted an extra word
I never ordered a Framework before but I’m planning to do this year. Isn’t that how it’s supposed to be? Last time I visited their site it was written that you pay a reserve price at the time of order, then they charge your card later with the remainig price before they ship it.
Right but who has like three grand just sitting in a checking account, that shit in a savings account because I’m not Bill Gates and I need every penny I can get from the interest? If they’re not going to tell you at the time that you pre-order when they’re going to bill you, then they need to contact you ahead of time or that’s going to keep happening.
Right but who has like three grand just sitting in a checking account, that shit in a savings account because I’m not Bill Gates and I need every penny I can get from the interest?
Dude use a credit card.
I mean, I have that in my account. But I’m also paranoid about bounced checks and don’t see the appeal of getting a nickel a month in exchange for worrying about something suddenly eating my float and causing bounced checks.
The interest rate on the savings account tied to my checking is not great…
Literally no one does it like that…no one. You place an order for something that’s backordered, they also don’t charge you until it’s shipped, and you won’t get notified beforehand either.
Notify me would literally be an email they couldn’t even be bothered to do that.
You would have thought they actually wanted the three grand, like contacting me cost cost them nothing and they didn’t do it they just cancelled the order.
I cannot express this part enough, the time between the pre-order and them charging me was like 5 months. I’m not going to keep massive amounts of money in a personal account for months on end just so they can randomly charge for it on a arbitrary Wednesday afternoon that’s ridiculous.
Since when are there savings accounts with interest rates worth even calculating? The interest rate on my savings account is down at 0.01%.
That sucks. I’ve also had mixed experiences with their support arm but the hardware and designs are pretty top notch. It really is nice to buy a laptop that isn’t inevitably headed for the landfill in five years.
What are you on about? I’ve been running a 9370 for 7 years, only replaced the battery last year and now I’m back at 8 hours. I changed the cooling paste just the other week. Best laptop I’ve ever owned, the only thing I’d want is a larger trackpad. There’s just a small amount of coil whine so I might replace the fans if it gets worse.
Keeping in mind I’ve abused this thing, was in my backback on my two major falls on my eboard. Only bending one of the corners slightly. This thing is a tank and a powerhouse.
Cool story
Enlightening comment, what you want? Proof?
Um, I was just sharing my experience with an xps. You have different experience, with a different xps model I’d guess. I’m glad you’re happy with it!
I didn’t even share the worst part of my experience: when it died it just died, refused to turn on. Immediate brick, no warning. This has happened to quite a few people I found, from frantic searching at the time.
I’ve bought dell for 20 years but their quality has been falling for the last decade, in my opinion and based on having bought about a dozen (for various people).
Yeah I’d be mad as hell too, I’ve heard their customer service is pretty terrible as well. I haven’t really noticed the quality issues though.
Build quality for Dell is down over the past few years
Hijacking top comment to report that: This is true across the industry for (most) OEMs
The Secret is to buy “Enterprise level”
Check out the LATITUDE line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Latitude
Those are enterprise fleet laptops … the ones they have to support for 5-10 years.
You know which line they don’t discontinue parts for? You know which line has repair manuals and driver updates available? wanna take a wild guess which line is usually more modular and powerful at the expense of being less sleek looking and thin?
And the best part is that you can usually buy them fairly cheap if you find them used.
I prefer Dell Latitude to HP Elitebook, Thinkpads are OK too but they’ve gone down in quality a lot since they got bought by Lenovo
TL;DR = Buy an enterprise level laptop, consumer line laptops are all trash,
Replying to my own comment to give yall one more tidbit.
The latitude product nomenclature is still standard
- 2 first digits of the model number are the “class” the higher the laptop the more high end
- last 2 digits of the model number are the generation (we are current in 60)
So for example the Latitude 9460 is the very high end laptop that came out at the beginning of this year while the 3540 was the entry level economy latitude that came out in 2023
My 6430 is chugging along as a nas on its 8 th year+ after being discontinued as daily workhorse. Running 24/7.
Lenovo has been making thinkpads for 20 years. The complaint that their quality is still less than how laptops were manufactured 2 decades ago feels rather dated.
Oh my god this post made me feel ancient, I was still thinking that was like 10 years tops. 💀
The Latitudes are balls in the worst way. Including the new “Pro” models. I’ve had i7 and i9 Latitudes that are slower than my i5 XPS 13, and yeah that thing sucks too but at least it sucks predictably.
I got a couple of latitudes and found they had soldered ram so I couldn’t upgrade them later 😭
Unfortunately soldered ram and non replaceable batteries are becoming more common on the ultralights … Thanks Apple
Shiiizzz i got a T32 with dual touchpad and thumbmouse… like 15 years old and still runs like a champ.
Yes , quality has gone down
That’s why I got a thinkpad. Built like a tank.
Good Lord, they’re copying that hideous notch design from the macbooks.
On one hand, its not that bad on a Mac… but that’s because the OS is designed in such a way where there’s nothing there and it sorta gets lost. Windows isn’t like that at all.
On the other hand, At least its not right above the keyboard like some of the ones we have at work… the “up the nose” cam is not flattering.
Just give me a bezel, I want a machine not a fashion accessory.
I hate the notch, and I used to say I’d rather have a bezel, but after going back to one of my pre-notch laptops, not having a bezel is nice. I still hate the notch though. I wish I could opt for just not having a built in webcam. It’s not like they use it for faceid, and I use an external webcam for work meetings anyway. Plus the iPhone seamlessly works as a webcam.
The pessimist sees the notch as wasted space, the optimist sees it as extra screen.
but that’s because the OS is designed in such a way where there’s nothing there
This is not true. There are multiple third party apps that help you avoid having menu icons disappear behind the notch. I don’t use those though, and instead blindly drag my menu icons behind the notch repeatedly until the one I want pops out from behind it.
Yikes, just apple things I guess
but that’s because the OS is designed in such a way where there’s nothing there
Ehh OSX uses the top of the screen as a menu bar so for apps which have a lot of menu bar options, those are gone. A lot of third party apps also let you place helpful widgets on the menu bar so that’s kinda not a thing anymore either.
You don’t use macOS do you? Any apps that have that many items on the menu bar are simply pushed to the right of the notch. There is 2” of blank menu bar in 99% of all use cases.
And if you still don’t like it, you bump the uninterrupted menu bar under the notch fully and everything above it (to the left and right of the notch) black as if there’s a bezel.
If the app menu spills over to the other side of the notch it hides all your utility icons with no good way to access them. Even Windows XP handled that situation better, I don’t understand why MacOS still sucks at it.
Seems like the new naming scheme didn’t work out after all, eh?
Wondering the same. Did they ditch the iphone like naming?
Sure hope so
what the fuck is a 1 HZ display option
It says in the article: Energy saving and for static images
it does WHAT
it Hertzes
Guessing: when the image is not being updated (you’re reading an article and not scrolling, you’re looking at a photo, etc), the display will change the referral refresh rate to 1 frame per second, which will drastically reduce power consumption.
That’s how it works on other devices that have this feature, at least.
Some Android phones do it too!
It dynamically regulates the refresh rate down to 1hz to save energy, it’s like an LTPO panel on a phone
Ha, I thought a 1Hz display was a typo until I read the article - that’s the minimum display update, not the maximum: for situations when nothing’s changing on the screen to save battery life.
On phones and tablets, variable refresh rates make an “always on” display feasible in terms of battery budget, where you can have something like a lock screen turned on at all times without burning through too much power.
On laptops, this might open up some possibilities of the lock screen or some kind of static or slideshow screensaver staying on longer while idle, before turning off the display.
No clit-mouse, no deal.
(There are dozens of us. Dozens!)
that limits you to power books, no?
Lenovo Thinkpads are the only reliable choice pretty much and even then it’s a bit of a crapshoot whether they include them or not. HP Elitebooks used to have them too but it seems like they also stopped in 2021. Apple’s never had them as far as I know. There’s a few other one-off small-run options here and there too but they’re few and far between.
I realize I’m in a very significant minority, but personally, having access to the mouse pointer for short jogs here and clicks there without my hands leaving the keyboard home row is a gamechanger and a non-negotiable feature to me. I’d never claim it’s a great way to move the mouse, but it has extremely high utility due to its convenient positioning, it’s always available even in tight quarters, and anytime space permits it pairs well with a secondary, traditional mouse for movements that are more numerous or complex or need more precision, it works very well with a text-heavy workflow.
It’s a mouse for people who would rather minimize their mouse usage, and I guess that’s me, or at least that’s the workflow I’ve gravitated to all my life. It’s not an ideology thing, it’s simply the fact that it’s deep muscle memory now, and whenever I try to use any computer without one I struggle so much, and I’ve actively tried more than once to wean myself off it, I can’t, it becomes a constant irritation that any other mouse feels so disconnected from my typing.
Touchpads are just insanely frustrating to use, I have no idea how some people tolerate using them daily unless it’s all they’ve ever known, and touchscreens are even worse in some ways since your fingers block the screen exactly where you’re trying to press, not to mention getting fingerprint smudges all over it even with the best techno-magic coatings. I loathe them both.
I miss my clitmouse XD
I probably got a lemon but regardless my XPS (~3 years old) is the worst computer I’ve ever owned. Touchy WiFi, battery that goes from 30 to 3℅ in a matter of seconds, randomly doesn’t detect the keyboard, randomly freezes, randomly doesn’t acknowledge it’s plugged in. Some days I just put it in timeout and use my 10yo netbook instead.
You never contacted dell for a warranty? That definitely sounds like a lemon to me
Why would you put up with that? Why wouldn’t you demand a replacement.
I owned several xps in a row, then got one with that touch bar. I returned it and stayed away since. Smart move to ditch it
Hmmm maybe something to convince me off my MacBook onto a Linux laptop. Port selection is kinda disappointing though as usual. Will have to see how the new intel CPUs perform / battery life. I don’t think I can ever go back to having an obnoxious fan all the time
Why not install Linux on your MacBook?
I need the features that Asahi doesn’t have yet, plus I don’t want that big a hit to battery life
Just shows how well the rebranding was thought through.
Looks promising. If I can buy it with Linux, that’s a plus. And turn off the touchscreen.
I got my XPS 9360 because it came with Linux preinstalled.
Dell is pretty friendly to Linux and even uses LVFS. I would assume theyre maintaining that in the new models but hey techs been doing stupid things since covid so who knows.
or you could buy the non-touch version
The touch version is higher res and OLED.
Yes
