A while back, Michael Moore got a bunch of MAGAs of all ages together and asked one question. “When did America stop being great?”
The ones who were born in the 1930s thought that things started going wrong in the 1950s. the ones born in the 1940s thought it was the 1960s. The ones born in the 1960s thought it was in the 1980s…
'93 here and I think the passage of the Patriot Act was a pretty important demarcation line, not just for abandonment of due process, but also when all the major networks embraced telling their audience who to hate.
Across a vast swath of the nation people were screaming for vengeance.
The idea of invading Iraq raised a few eyebrows but when we were overtly told that Saddam and Iraq were responsible in some way for 9/11, a LOT of people got on board. Like, more unity across America than I’ve ever seen in my life. People of all walks of life wanted war.
A couple years in, and there were no chemical weapons, no Osama, no nuclear warheads, and lots and lots of Americans started coming back in body bags, including National Guard members, that’s when the US started turning on the government and the war, but there was nothing that could be done, we were stuck by then and it went on and on and on.
The New York City alternative paper, The Village Voice ran two cartoons I remember.
One was a cover. Bush Jr. as Mickey Mouse in the sorcerer’s apprentice outfit. The big broom looked like Saddam and the little ones looked like bin-Ladn.
The other was Bin-Ladn and Saddam cast in a ‘buddy cop’ movie where they have to learn to get along to take down the bad guys.
It wasn’t that Bush was carried away by an unstoppable tide demanding war. Bush manufactured the ‘evidence’ and his people sold it hard.
If you have not seen it, you should watch the movie Wag the Dog, and check the release date on it after doing so. Phenomenal movie about government spin doctors.
In the book they specifically name Bush Sr. and Saddam. But the author says that the person he was most afraid of offending was the Hollywood producer…
I know all that, I was also there, I am saying that even with the marches and protests, there was still an overwhelming mandate among Americans, manufactured or otherwise, for blood.
And in 50 years there will be people waxing nostalgic for the good ol’ days when you could just fire up your own access to the internet and buy a plane ticket with your credit card.
Wanting freedom and comfort is not a “return to the past” thing as much as a “why has capitalism robbed me of the feeling of freedom and choice” thing.
Not sure what the point is. I’m saying people always look back and cherry-pick what was “better” and things are always changing.
You can advocate for those better things without tying it to the past. When you do that, you are feeding fascism. I know it sounds hyperbolic but I am dead serious, every time anyone even casually says “it was better back when…” a GOP intern gets promoted to media manager.
Now you’re being hyperbolic. You seem to be saying that we shouldn’t point out Left victories of the past [the New Deal etc.] simply because they happened in the past.
Nostalgia is a human trait, and like any other it can be manipulated.
I already said I know it sounds hyperbolic, I am saying broadly, we need to take better care with how we talk about things in the past.
Lots of people saying “I want to have the system we had in the past” has a very different material outcome in our world than lots of people saying “It was better in the past.”
I feel it is less responsibilities and more the societal awareness that comes with them that tends to make the change. When you start paying bills you start dealing directly with greedy corporations, landleeches, and greedy employers, all of whom view you as a commodity rather than a human being.
Life being pay to play, as it has been for a couple hundred years, is where I feel the “downward trend of society” feelings come from.
A while back, Michael Moore got a bunch of MAGAs of all ages together and asked one question. “When did America stop being great?”
The ones who were born in the 1930s thought that things started going wrong in the 1950s. the ones born in the 1940s thought it was the 1960s. The ones born in the 1960s thought it was in the 1980s…
I was born in 1982. I think I have a good excuse for thinking America went to shit, oh say, around the end of 2001.
Personally, my 20s sucked. My 30s were much better.
'93 here and I think the passage of the Patriot Act was a pretty important demarcation line, not just for abandonment of due process, but also when all the major networks embraced telling their audience who to hate.
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Funny thing. I was living in NYC on 9/11/2001. None of the people I knew thought that the Iraq Invasion was a good idea.
Across a vast swath of the nation people were screaming for vengeance.
The idea of invading Iraq raised a few eyebrows but when we were overtly told that Saddam and Iraq were responsible in some way for 9/11, a LOT of people got on board. Like, more unity across America than I’ve ever seen in my life. People of all walks of life wanted war.
A couple years in, and there were no chemical weapons, no Osama, no nuclear warheads, and lots and lots of Americans started coming back in body bags, including National Guard members, that’s when the US started turning on the government and the war, but there was nothing that could be done, we were stuck by then and it went on and on and on.
I was there. There were a lot of antiwar marches.
The New York City alternative paper, The Village Voice ran two cartoons I remember.
One was a cover. Bush Jr. as Mickey Mouse in the sorcerer’s apprentice outfit. The big broom looked like Saddam and the little ones looked like bin-Ladn.
The other was Bin-Ladn and Saddam cast in a ‘buddy cop’ movie where they have to learn to get along to take down the bad guys.
It wasn’t that Bush was carried away by an unstoppable tide demanding war. Bush manufactured the ‘evidence’ and his people sold it hard.
If you have not seen it, you should watch the movie Wag the Dog, and check the release date on it after doing so. Phenomenal movie about government spin doctors.
You should read the original book.
In the book they specifically name Bush Sr. and Saddam. But the author says that the person he was most afraid of offending was the Hollywood producer…
It was a good movie, too.
I know all that, I was also there, I am saying that even with the marches and protests, there was still an overwhelming mandate among Americans, manufactured or otherwise, for blood.
I was born in the mid 90s, and I feel like my experience of things going to shit in the mid 2010s is similarly justified.
Nostalgia is a universal feeling that fascists have been leveraging for centuries to get average idiots to pick up weapons.
Resist fascism. Resist nostalgia.
Not all nostalgia is equal.
There’s wanting to go back to when all the slaves were happy and there’s remembering when you could go to the airport and buy a ticket for cash.
And in 50 years there will be people waxing nostalgic for the good ol’ days when you could just fire up your own access to the internet and buy a plane ticket with your credit card.
Wanting freedom and comfort is not a “return to the past” thing as much as a “why has capitalism robbed me of the feeling of freedom and choice” thing.
And in 50 years there will be people waxing nostalgic
Kinda proving my point here.
Not sure what the point is. I’m saying people always look back and cherry-pick what was “better” and things are always changing.
You can advocate for those better things without tying it to the past. When you do that, you are feeding fascism. I know it sounds hyperbolic but I am dead serious, every time anyone even casually says “it was better back when…” a GOP intern gets promoted to media manager.
Now you’re being hyperbolic. You seem to be saying that we shouldn’t point out Left victories of the past [the New Deal etc.] simply because they happened in the past.
Nostalgia is a human trait, and like any other it can be manipulated.
I already said I know it sounds hyperbolic, I am saying broadly, we need to take better care with how we talk about things in the past.
Lots of people saying “I want to have the system we had in the past” has a very different material outcome in our world than lots of people saying “It was better in the past.”
Life started to suck when the responsibilities came.
I feel it is less responsibilities and more the societal awareness that comes with them that tends to make the change. When you start paying bills you start dealing directly with greedy corporations, landleeches, and greedy employers, all of whom view you as a commodity rather than a human being.
Life being pay to play, as it has been for a couple hundred years, is where I feel the “downward trend of society” feelings come from.
So, worsening since the 1930s? Mostly, I’d agree with them.