• Redkey@programming.dev
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    11 days ago

    How about that worst of both worlds, the tutorial where the author starts out writing as if their audience only barely knows what a computer is, gets fed up partway through, and vomits out the rest in a more obtuse and less complete form than they would’ve otherwise?

    1. Turn on your computer. Make sure you turn on the “PC” (the big box part) as well as the “monitor” (TV-like part).

    2. Once your computer is ready and you can see the desktop, open your web browser. This might be called “Chrome”, “Safari”, “Edge”, or something else. It’s the same program you open to use “the Google”.

    3. In the little bar near the top of the window where you can write things, type “https://www.someboguswebsite.corn/download/getbogus.html” and press the Enter key.

    4. Download the software and unarchive it to a new directory in your borklaving software with the appropriate naming convention.

    5. Edit the init file to match your frooping setup.

    6. If you’re using Fnerp then you might need to switch off autoglomping. Other suites need other settings.

    7. Use the thing. You know, the thing that makes the stuff work right. Whatever.

    Congratulations! You’re ready to go!

    • Sounds like typical Microsoft documentation to me. Explains in great detail what .NET is, where you can download it from, then jumps straight to the advanced topic they’re covering without any of the intermediate knowledge covered or even linked to (but perhaps referred to only vaguely in passing as an acronym, again with no link, this time no link to what “TLA” is actually short for, so you’re searching for it is fruitless as well).

      • Thunderwolf@lemmy.world
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        10 days ago

        I think TLA means “Three Letter Acronym” in some circles. So like, DBA would be a TLA meaning “database administrator” for example. Didn’t read the article to get the context though, so not sure if it fits

        • Iunnrais@lemmy.world
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          10 days ago

          Yes, TLA is a three letter acronym. A four letter acronym, on the other hand, is an ETLA, or “Enhanced Three Letter Acronym”. For advanced cases, you can get an EETLA (or XETLA) for Expanded/Extended Enhanced Three Letter Acronym.

          Just so you know.

        • I think TLA means “Three Letter Acronym” in some circles

          Yes, that was why I used it. Microsoft doco is full of unexplained TLA’s - you have to already know what it means and how to use the thing. You knew what TLA meant. Now read the Miscrosoft doco where you don’t know what any of the MS TLA’s mean, and they don’t tell you.

  • Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works
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    11 days ago

    At least once in their life, every tech person should be forced to teach someone like my mum how to use a piece of technology.

    That will very quickly change your perspective on what counts as user friendly.

    • Yaky@slrpnk.net
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      11 days ago

      I taught basic computer literacy. I am a software developer. It’s tough to reframe my own knowledge so drastically, but the new perspective also makes me question why so many things are wrong with current tech (particularly UI/UX).

      • Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works
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        11 days ago

        Oh definitely, there’s so many products we use that are far more complicated than they have any need to be.

        Vehicles and appliances are two examples that come to mind.

        • Yaky@slrpnk.net
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          10 days ago

          My peeve is products made “easy” to use, in a way that makes explaining them extremely difficult. Two top examples are:

          URL bar in browsers which doubles as a search bar. Good luck explaining why if you type in an exact existing address, you will get there, but otherwise (typo, extra space), you will end up on Google.

          Apple’s iMessage. Your message will be sent to your contact using one of three protocols: SMS/MMS, iMessage or RCS. This is almost entirely opaque, and I even had to explain to a tech-savvy person why videos they send me look like blobs.

    • felbane@lemmy.world
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      10 days ago

      I think the issue is that you need to understand who your users actually are. Documentation for a library intended to be used by a reasonably competent software engineer is going to have different requirements vs documentation for a cli utility aimed at Arch btw Linux users vs documentation for a program to help Grandma organize family photos.

      If you throw a terminal command at Grandma she’s going to panic and call her grandchild. If you put instructions for extracting a tarball in your library docs the programmer is going to get bored and skip ahead.

  • Otter@lemmy.ca
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    10 days ago

    This reminds me of the “WHY IS THERE CODE??? MAKE A FUCKING .EXE FILE AND GIVE IT TO ME” post that blew up a while back

    https://copypastatext.com/i-am-new-to-github-and-i-have-lots-to-say/

    And both boil down to

    • guides can be prioritized more in some projects and it might be in the best interest of the creators to do that

    • different guides are written for different audiences, sometimes a guide isn’t meant for the average person

  • Yaky@slrpnk.net
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    11 days ago

    Me, a (mostly) backend developer, reading a Medium post on how to make your computer display a div using Awesome New Web Framework ™

    • felbane@lemmy.world
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      10 days ago

      Every front-end guide, despite modern HTML/CSS3/ES6+ being completely viable for building an entire web application without dependencies: “first, install npm and npx and npy and npppp2 and then run ‘npz create-huge-boilerplate-folder’. Now go edit arbitrarily_named_file.yaml to add requirements a, b, and banana. Now you can edit path/to/hidden/entrypoint.jsx to return ‘Hello, World!’ and then run ‘npz bloated-dev-http-server’ and navigate to http://127.0.0.1:9001/index to view it! Simple!”

  • rtxn@lemmy.world
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    10 days ago

    Is “prerequisite knowledge” a foreign concept to people these days? When I started writing extensions for Blender, I had to do a lot of legwork to understand the bpy module, and even more fucking legwork to understand Python itself, all that on top of the general knowledge of programming and algorithms from high school.

    RTFM means that you should use the available resources to learn. There’s a whole internet full of them. There are no shortcuts to understanding, and you can’t expect every task-oriented guide to explain how to write a main().

    • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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      10 days ago

      I mean, as it says at the end, this blog post is in good fun. It most definitely expresses frustration, but it also recognizes that perfect is the enemy of good, and that you already put in more effort than one can expect by writing a tutorial to begin with.

      I guess, my main takeaway is that you really don’t need to bother writing up your life story. It will fly over the head of your readers, for sure. (Although a bit of context may still be important.)
      And you should probably spend a few more words, describing the actual steps, no matter how obvious those may seem to you.

    • RunJun@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      10 days ago

      There’s amazing and terrible manuals everywhere. One of the key things is defining target audience. From there you define experience and knowledge.

      If a manual is intended to be for a broad audience interacting with something new, then you use the lowest level reading level that still makes your point. From there you work on flow because there’s a 1000 ways to skin a cat.

      If LEGO manuals were only written step by step instructions, at a college reading level, then they miss a key demographic. Yet, people would still walk around like “That’s a perfectly cromulent instruction manual!” Technically they would be correct but it misses the point.

    • Is “prerequisite knowledge” a foreign concept to people these days?

      Apparently so.

      RTFM means that you should use the available resources to learn

      Except the manuals are written like this, and don’t cover pre-requisite knowledge at all - don’t even link to it!

      There’s a whole internet full of them

      Microsoft doco “now add TLA to it”, don’t say what TLA is, don’t link to what TLA is, searching for TLA doesn’t tell you what it is. There most certainly is a whole internet full of blogs about “TLA”, but I don’t even have any keywords, and can’t find any of the “TLA” that Microsoft is talking about. The documentation is literally useless to anyone who doesn’t already know what “TLA” is.

      There are no shortcuts to understanding

      There are no shortcuts to writing good documentation

      you can’t expect every task-oriented guide to explain how to write a main().

      But you can certainly expect them to link to resources about pre-requisite knowledge, like I did in Creating MAUI UI’s in C#.

  • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
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    10 days ago

    My God y’all can’t just let a joke be a joke if there’s an option for you to be correct instead, LMAO

    Edit: I just scrolled through all the comments and saw that the large majority of the replies here are very long, multi-paragraph comments. Y’all ok? Did this post touch a nerve with some of you? LMFAO

  • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    The more advanced the level of knowledge on something the more foundation knowledge somebody has to have to even begin to understand things at that level.

    It would be pretty insane to in a tutorial for something at a higher level of expertise, include all the foundational knowledge to get to that level of expertise so that an absolute beginner can understand what’s going on.

    Imagine if you were trying to explain something Mathematical that required using Integrals and you started by “There this symbol, ‘1’ which represents a single item, and if you bring another single item, this is calling addition - for which we use the symbol ‘+’ and the count of entities when you have one single entity and ‘added’ another single entity is represented by the symbol ‘2’. There is also the concept of equality, which means two matematical things represent the same and for which the symbol we use is ‘=’ - writting this with Mathematical symbols, ‘1 + 1 = 2’” and built the explanation up from there all the way to Integrals before you could even start to explain what you wanted to explain in the first place.

    That said, people can put it in “recipe” format - a set of steps to be blindly followed without understanding - but even there you have some minimal foundational knowlegde required - consider a cooking recipe: have you ever seen any that explains how does one weight ingredients or what is “boiling” or “baking”?

    So even IT “recipes” especially designed so that those with a much lower level of expertise than the one required to actually understand what’s going on have some foundational knowledge required to actually execute the steps of the recipe.

    Last but not least I get the impression that most people who go to the trouble of writting about how to do something prefere to do explanations rather than recipes, because there’s some enjoyment in teaching about something to others, which you get when you explain it but seldom from merely providing a list of steps for others to blindly follow without understanding.

    So, if one wants to do something way above the level of expertise one has, look for “recipe” style things rather than explanations - the foundational expertise required to execute recipes is way lower than the one required to undertand explanations - and expect that there are fewer recipes out there than explanations. Further, if you don’t understand what’s in a recipe then your expertise is below even the base level of that recipe (for example, if somebody writes “enter so and so in the command prompt” and you have no fucking clue what a “command prompt” is, you don’t meet the base requirements to even blindly follow the recipe), so either seek recipes with an even lower base level or try and learn those base elements.

    Further, don’t even try and understand the recipe if your expertise level is well below what you’re trying to achieve: sorry but you’re not going to get IT’s “Integrals” stuff if your expertise is at the level of understanding “multiplication”.

    • AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net
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      10 days ago

      “That said, people can put it in “recipe” format - a set of steps to be blindly followed without understanding - but even there you have some minimal foundational knowlegde required”

      Something that’s quite interesting is that apparently one of the core components of how Latin and Greek used to be taught in fancy public schools (especially in like, Isaac Newton’s era) was that students would be made to copy out sections from classical literature (such as the Odyssey). Obviously this would be happening alongside lessons involving basic grammar, but I’ve seen some scholars suggest that this kind of blind repetition was a key component to the language learning, and that it may even be useful for learning languages in a modern context.

    • It would be pretty insane to in a tutorial for something at a higher level of expertise, include all the foundational knowledge to get to that level of expertise

      You don’t need to include it all. You just need to mention it as pre-requisite knowledge, and link to resources about it for those who don’t have that knowledge. See Creating MAUI UI’s in C#

      I get the impression that most people who go to the trouble of writting about how to do something prefere to do explanations rather than recipes

      Good documentation includes both. i.e. step-by-step guide, with explanations. See above.

      so either seek recipes with an even lower base level

      All documentation should cater to all levels. See above.

      • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        10 days ago

        For “all documentation” to “cater to all levels” it would have to explain to people “how do you use a keyboard” and everything from there upwards, because there are people at that level hence it’s part of “all levels”.

        I mean the your own example of good documentation starts with an intro of “goals” saying:

        “Visual Studio (VS) does not (currently) provide a blank .NET Multi-platform Application User Interface (MAUI) template which is in C# only. In this post we shall cover how to modify your new MAUI solution to get rid of the XAML, as well as cover how to do in C# code the things which are currently done in XAML (such as binding). We shall also briefly touch on some of the advantages of doing this.”

        For 99% of people almost all that is about as understandable as Greek (expect for Greek people, for whom it’s about as understandable as Chinese).

        I mean, how many people out there in the whole World (non-IT people as illustrated in the actual article linked by the OP) do you think know what the hell is “Visual Studio”, “.Net”, “Multi-platform Application User Interface”, “template”, “C#”, “XAML”, “binding” (in this context).

        I mean, if IT knowledge was a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 the greatest, you’re basically thinking it’s “catering to all levels” when an explanation for something that is level 8 knowledge (advanced programming) has a baseline required level of 7 (programming). I mean, throw this at somebody that “knows how to use Excel” which is maybe level 4 and they’ll be totally lost, much less somebody who only knows how to check their e-mail using a browser without even properly understanding the concept of "browser (like my father) which is maybe level 2 (he can actually use a mouse and keyboard, otherwise I would’ve said level 1).

        I think you’re so way beyond the average person in your expertise in this domain that you don’t even begin to suspect just how little of our domain the average person knows compared to an mere programmer.

        • it would have to explain to people “how do you use a keyboard”

          No it wouldn’t. You just link to resources about pre-requisite knowledge.

          and everything from there upwards

          Nope. Exact same thing applies to all pre-requisite knowledge.

          For 99% of people almost all that is about as understandable as Greek

          Now scroll down to the pre-requisite knowledge which has links to things explaining ALL of that.

          how many people out there in the whole World (non-IT people as illustrated in the actual article linked by the OP) do you think know what the hell is “Visual Studio”, “.Net”, “Multi-platform Application User Interface”, “template”, “C#”, “XAML”, “binding” (in this context)

          Exact same number as there is people capable of clicking on the provided links about them in the pre-requisite knowledge section.

          which is maybe level 4 and they’ll be totally lost,

          …until they read the links in the pre-requisite knowledge, and then they will understand all of it.

          I think you’re so way beyond the average person in your expertise in this domain

          says person who didn’t even scroll past the introductory paragraph! 😂 You think people try to learn things by reading only the introductory paragraph?? 😂

          you don’t even begin to suspect just how little of our domain the average person knows compared to an mere programmer

          And yet, weirdly, if you keep reading you’ll find it caters to people who know nothing about it 😂

          • Vivian (they/them)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            10 days ago

            Cool but nobody’s about to link to prerequisite information like typing on a keyboard. Same for math, a book focusing on integration isn’t going to say “read this book for the basics of addition btw”.

            And why should one even cater to that? If a person is interested enough they can just… look up the things they don’t understand, that’s not exactly hard

            • Trail@lemmy.world
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              No, you’re not supposed to follow years of computer science courses in a university. A good tutotial will provide all prerequisite knowledge for you. Including high school.

            • Cool but nobody’s about to link to prerequisite information like typing on a keyboard.

              they say to someone who does indeed link to all pre-requisite knowledge. 😂 You know some Tech people do indeed recommend doing a touch-typing course, right?

              Same for math, a book focusing on integration isn’t going to say “read this book for the basics of addition btw”

              I’m a Maths teacher. You’ll find that Maths textbooks do indeed run through any pre-requisites for the topic. e.g. “We discussed back in Chapter 2…”.

              And why should one even cater to that?

              Because it’s useless to a large chunk of your audience if you don’t.

              If a person is interested enough they can just… look up the things they don’t understand,

              No they just can’t, not when no information at all has been given on what this is so that you have something to search for. See Microsoft doco where they use TLA’s, don’t tell you what the TLA is short for, don’t link to any information about the TLA, and searching for “TLA” (since they’ve not told you what TLA is short for) fails to bring up any information about this thing they are talking about. Now the tutorial is completely useless to you because you have no idea what they’re talking about and can’t find anything about what they’re talking about. “Draw the rest of the owl”

              that’s not exactly hard

              It’s very hard when you have no search keywords at all to work with.

    • BCsven@lemmy.ca
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      10 days ago

      I Prefer a playbook to a recipe card. The playbook should spell out the goal and the 'why’s of the steps. Because if the process throws an error due to upgraded code etc, then you can be stuck at step one with no path forward. With some playbook annotation you at least know expected out come and why you are running a command etc.

      When I have gone to docker hub I always view multiple images and see what their writeup is like. Some just assume you 100% know all dockers subtleties, some have a one liner, but there will be a helpfull soul who spells out what steps to do, and what the best options to set etc. Like a mini tutorial.

      I find the mini tutorial to be widely beneficial, because it removes the blackbox nature, and gives new onboarding users a chance to grasp the concepts docker works with.

      It’s like the difference between going to a mechanic that has you sit by the coffee machine in the office while they change your brakes and they come back and say “I swapped the new pads in”, vs them pulling up a chair in the shop and explaining the process “here I’m wirebrushing the back of the wheel and the hub, to make sure when it goes back on there is no corrosion debris stopping a parallel fit…now I’m applying high temp grease so that the hub and wheel don’t sieze together from corrosion and make next removal easy”

      The info is probably useless to a seasoned mechanic that had a broken hand so had somebody else do their brake work, but highly useful to the next gen of person that can absorb it and know whats and whys.

      • It’s like the difference between going to a mechanic that has you sit by the coffee machine in the office …

        Good example. I just wanted to add that the place I go to for tyres, if there’s some kind of issue (like with balance or alignment), sometimes they even take me into the workshop (where customers are usually not allowed) to show me what the issue is.

      • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        10 days ago

        Yeah, that’s much better.

        Personally I detest not understanding what’s going on when following a guide to do something, so I really dislike recipe style.

        That said, I mentioned recipes because recipes meant to be blindly followed are the style of guide which has the lowest possible “required expertise level” of all.

        I supposed a playbook properly done (i.e. a dumbed down set by step “do this” guide but with side annotations which are clearly optional reading, explaining what’s going on for those who have the higher expertise levels needed to understand them) can have as low a “required expertise level” as just a plain recipe whilst being a much nicer option because people who know a bit more can get more from it that they could from just a dumbed down recipe.

        That said, it has to be structured so that it’s really clear that those “explanation bits” are optional reading for the curious which have the knowhow to understand them, otherwise it risks scaring less skilled people who would actually be able to successfully do the taks by blindly following the step-by-step recipe part of it.

        • BCsven@lemmy.ca
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          That said, it has to be structured so that it’s really clear that those “explanation bits” are optional reading for the curious which have the knowhow to understand them

          Yep, totally. This past year I spent a lot of time setting up an LMS with content.
          I included sections that were tips, good to know, for awareness, etc.

          Maybe only 1 out of every 20 users might expand the section, but if they do then there is a clear explanation of why this particular thing functions this way and how to make it work in alternate usecases. Images and explanation, before and after, etc.

  • gedhrel@lemmy.world
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    10 days ago

    The issue here is that the author of that post, and potentially the fictional author of the thing being lampooned, are not drawing a distinction between a tutorial (or an explanation) and a how-to.

    https://diataxis.fr/

    Either you want to get a task done, or you want to spend a lot longer learning how to work that out for yourself.

    (Many tutorials will include small set of how-to-like instructions because emulating the actions of a master will improve one’s vocabulary of what can be done as well as how it is achieved.)

  • backlever@programming.dev
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    10 days ago

    Imagine a chemistry lab tutorial aimed at 9th grade students getting “as a non-chemist, this reads as gibberish” comments from first graders. Nobody would blame the tutorial authors.

    People need to start putting in the effort. There is no such thing as learning for free.

    • Imagine a chemistry lab tutorial aimed at 9th grade students getting “as a non-chemist, this reads as gibberish” comments from first graders. Nobody would blame the tutorial authors

      I tutor Maths. I have a Year 12 student who has forgotten things they were taught in Year 8, and the teacher has done no revision of it in class. Now guess why this student needs a tutor 😂

      People need to start putting in the effort.

      The people writing the documentation, yes. They need to say what the prerequisite knowledge is, and include links to it for those who don’t know it (or remember it). Only takes a few minutes to do that. See Creating MAUI UI’s in C#

  • itkovian@lemmy.world
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    10 days ago

    How I, a developer read most developer blogs too. No shame in admitting that I lack knowledge, except my anxiety don’t cut me such slack.

  • I Cast Fist@programming.dev
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    You sure that’s a tutorial and not the “about” page of half of github, where you have no fucking clue what the project is about?

  • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    Yeah, documentation isn’t as good as it could be, and it would increase the accessibility of software if it was better.

    • meliaesc@lemmy.world
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      The amount of time and skill it takes to write excellent and accessible documentation is just not reasonable for most developers, unless you have dedicated technical writers or it’s a personal project without true deadlines.

      • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        So what? It may arguably be not a developer’s fault, but it is everyone’s problem, given the growing dystopian alternatives to an accessible distributed software ecosystem. A problem can be acknowledged without admitting blame. Happy cake day btw.

  • A_norny_mousse@feddit.org
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    I like how some sentences contain phrases that actually make sense:

    Despite the jaggle of the chromus, it’s really multi-purpose.

    Also me, writing a lot in bash, can totally relate to this:
    [[]][[]][[]][[]]][[]()()()()()()()()(){{}{}{}|{}{|}{}{|}{ ////////////////!! !!!! !! //// !!!
    Except there should be backslashes, single and double quotes in it too.
    Here’s a real world example of getting the value of an array member, with a counter:
    x="${array[$((i+=2))]}"

    kleptomitrons

    I want some of those please.