Some is valid. Men aren’t taught how to make and maintain emotionally open friendships, with men or women. It’s seen as weak or weird to cry on front of your bros when you’re sad. This leads to loneliness. This is real.

Some is not valid. Men claiming that they’re not getting laid and it’s women’s fault is bullshit. Or that women have impossibly high standards and are gold diggers. It’s nonsense.

The problem is that the “women hating incels” have coopted the term, and their garbage deserves to be mocked.

I’m a very fluid person. So I think I have great inside in the differences between genders and sexualities in loneliness.

A lot of it have to do with “be approached”.

As a woman presenting person a get approached a lot, a lot of people I don’t know want to talk with me. It’s ridiculously easy to make new acquaintances and friends. Everyone wants to talk and be around you.

As a male presenting person I also get approached a lot when I’m in “gay spaces”. Again it’s impossible to be alone unless I voluntarily would want to.

Yes, these two have the handicap that a lot of approaches are “sex related” of by people wanting sex. But not all of them, among so much approaches there’s always some that doesn’t just want sex.

Then, as a male presenting person in not gay spaces and even more so in straight spaces. I don’t get approached, never, at all. Zero people talk to me just because they want to be near me. If I want to meet somebody I always have to be the one initiating the approach.

In my experience this is the root of the issue. And the experience that most people complaining about “male loneliness” are talking about.

There are other type of loneliness. As a Queer I’m quite familiar with loneliness related to being different, and people literally hating you for what you are, or not accepting you. But that’s a different thing. The male loneliness is that feeling of having the burden of all your relationships in your shoulders, knowing that if you don’t go after people people won’t ever go after you. And that can be devastating with time. Because your self worth get tanked, specially if you are introvert and have a hard time approaching people.

I suppose it won’t end until it get normalized to approach cis men the same way it’s normalized in the other situations I talked about. The reason of why people don’t approach cis men as easy can be discussed, I get that there’s a fear/danger factor in approaching a cis male, specially after being approached by so many menacing people in your life. But still, I do think the root of the issue is that. And there’s also de commodity of knowing that you don’t need to approach a cis man because some will approach to you regardless, so you don’t even need to try. I’m the first guilty of it. I don’t approach men either, I always wait for them to approach me, because I know they will, so why bother approaching? I suppose there’s a great imbalance. Maybe if men would go into strike and refuse to approach people the balance would be restored, who knows.

As a cis het man, the “male loneliness epidemic” is more a collection of symptoms of multiple problems without one source.

Those who claim a single source usually point to women because they’re a misogynist grifter looking chasing clout or to sell a scam course / supplement.

So without further ado, here’s my non-academic (and probably ill-informed) reckon based on conversations from online and IRL, lived experiences, and perceived societal norms. Have your large pinch of salt on standby.

1. Both men and women have been socialised that the only emotions men show is anger or laughter. Men have been socialised that the only emotion they can express in front of other men is anger and laughter. This means the amount of emotional support men can use from their support network is limited, they’re not practiced on how to deal with them, and either have to figure it out by themselves, be lucky enough to have a friend or partner whom they feel emotionally safe to express these feelings, can afford to seek professional help, laugh the problem off with self-depricating humour to repress the emotion, or turn it into anger usually as a result of succumbing to one of the aforementioned grifters.

Understandably, women have been socialised that if a man is showing emotion then that could turn into frustration and anger and so then they either have to risk taking on unpaid emotional labour or remove themselves from the situation. So sometimes you get this scenario where women want men to be more emotionally open but then recoil when they do because subconscious alarm bells start ringing that “you’re in danger” because there’s a decent chance that they could be.

Thankfully this is changing with younger generations, but it will take a generation or two.

2. Male support socialisation is centred around problem solving, not listening. Even if a guy has friends he can lean on emotionally, the conversations are usually focused around fixing the problem rather than providing a listening space and reassurance that those emotions are valid.

This is the main reason I pass off an “I’m fine” to friends and family because they’d try and suggest solutions to the problem rather than just listen.

Again, this is changing in society but these kinds of changes are slow.

3. Loss of third spaces. This affects everyone, not just men. But these third spaces where people can socialise without being forced to spend money are key for building communities. When people had disposable income or access to lines of credit it didn’t matter that there was an expectation that you had to pay for parking, food, drink, ticket(s) for the activity. Now, that’s less of an option for many people.

This hasn’t improved and will likely only get worse as late stage capitalism squeezes out anything that is unable or refuses to make more and more profit per quarter.

4. The lack of third spaces has moved friendships, courtship, and dating online. Whilst this has meant many people have made connections (platonic and romantic) that would have gone missed, the big tech companies have realised that anger and loneliness are good for business.

The social networks get far more engagement from posts that make people angry and therefore their advertising revenues increase.

Similarly, the dating monopoly Match Group, has realised that having more men than women on the platform means these men will spend money on these platforms for a chance at matches. So they purposely profile men who are likely to pay for things like “super likes” etc. and do nothing to make the experience more pleasant for women.

This isn’t anything new by the way, it’s the same reason some clubs make guys pay on the door and women get in for free, and it’s the same reason why there’s more female sex workers than male sex workers.

Men are willing to pay many and women don’t have to, but women have to put up with a lot of entitlement from the men who have paid for matches / to get into the club and be constantly fending off attention from men they don’t wish to reciprocate the attention to.

Without third spaces for general socialising, the only place to interact with potential partners is paid and will therefore skew financially in favour of women at the cost of their peace-of-mind.

5. This is more of a personal sentiment but others might empathise: I don’t want to feel like I’m harassing women.

I’m not cold approaching anyone when I go out because I don’t want to interrupt their precious free time they get in between the grind of life. I don’t want to interrupt them socialising with their friends or be creepy on the dancefloor by getting in their personal space, or even glancing over too much.

So I stay at arms length, avoid eye contact, and only approach or get close if I’m getting multiple very strong signals large enough to land an Airbus A380.

6. This is definitely just applies to me, but I have exceedingly low self-confidence, self-esteem, and low opinion of myself from a deep rooted depression. That’s a straight-up non-starter for trying to be with anyone else because nobody, man or woman, likes an emotional anchor dragging their mood down. I’m working on it but without paying a lot of money for therapy (the NHS waiting list is a joke), I’m stuck trying to work it out myself (see points 1 & 2).

So until I’m fit for socialising in that way, I’m purposely isolating myself in that regard.

Oh and for added flavour, I don’t want to be around watching society collapse as the world continues to burn not can I distract myself (or be ignorant enough) to not pay attention to it.

To be honest, right now my mind is telling just to wait for my mother to pass away then withdraw all my money, disappear abroad, burn through it in pure hedonism then off myself once the cash has run out. At least this way I can enjoy a shorter life rather than suffer a longer one.

It has very large implications on society, many of which in contradiction with established progressive policy.

So it’s easier to ridicule and/or downplay, than to apply compassion, and change course.

I think its pretty hypocritical for anyone who isnt a male to have an opinion on the validity of an experience they cant possibly have unless they transitioned.

Its like me having an opinion on have a period.

I’ve seen three sides to it.

Side 1: “boo hoo nobody will fuck me because I don’t think other people should have rights”

Side 2: not having strong friendships/relationships because our society is built around capitalism, cars, and social media (this obviously applies across genders, this side therefore is a generalized loneliness epidemic, not a male gendered one)

Side 3: men get socially punished for being vulnerable

In my mind only the second & third side is worth listening to.

I can only suggest reading some of “The Way We Never Were”. It’s a look at society and how it actually was vs the manufactured versions people today use to weaponize the whitewashed past as some sort of ideal. It’s not a psychological book or a deep analysis of society at all, but one of the things that struck me about it that relate to social circles and how it applies to men in particular is the loss of “the village” and the damage “self reliance” - the isolation of the American Family Unit by making it the Family Vs The World - has done to society and the ability of people to form steady social groups outside of work. This, and the need to constantly change jobs to move ahead financially also keeps people on unsteady ground with relationships.

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Cis man here.

It’s an issue. It comes in lots of different colors and flavors but it all stems from social issues.

There’s lots of reasons, some men were never taught about social relationships, men tend to generally be less interested in social interaction thus giving them less experience, some men are ostracized when talking about their social struggles, and these are on top of preexisting environmental factors and preexisting mental conditions.

At this point it’s important to say: it’s not a contest for genders. Trans people have it hard, nb people have it hard women have it hard. It’s just that this is one of the rare times men’s struggles are not addressed properly.

I can tell you I probably have about 50 men in my life that I ko and wo are nice but if I had to talk to a man about my struggles socially, there are 2 men.

Now couple this with the fact 90% of men I had deeper conversations with told me they are struggling with depression and some of them having suicidal ideations, it is fair to assume we have a problem.

For me, the depression is always exacerbated by social isolation. It makes sense - not getting some feedback from other people can get you into crazy headspaces and there are thinking patterms that literally make you hurt yourself just to make it stop.

There’s another aspect: we are social creatures and as soon as you don’t get enough “social exposure” it’s harder to learn social cues and “get the vibe”, and other people notice. So the more you isolate, the harder preceding social interaction become and the harder it is, which in turn incentivizes isolating. A vicious cycle.

Now not everyone has these issues and I would never say that it’s the most important issue in our current society but every time I hear suicide statistics by gender it really puts into perspective that we should get to know those people who we have failed.

One thing I also wanna address is the idea that “men are never taught how to socialize”, because I think it implies a lot of things. First, I’m sure a lot of men are not, but a good number of men are. I was for example. It didn’t help, but that was never the issue for me. Second, it implies men want to be taught. I spoke to a group of 2 men and 2 women with mental disabilities about if they ever considered complete social isolation. The men said yes and the women said no. I think this is really significant and can give insight into why this is affecting men more than other genders. I would infer from this that women always see the benefit in social interaction, and men pursue social interactions rather as a means to an end. This might be a stretch but this supported by other observations of friends and family.

This topic is really important and I hope it gets talked about more - for the benefit of everyone who wants to see people become happier. The men affected by loneliness, as well as the people who deal with them.

Can we please leave gender war slop back at the old site please?

There’s basically a lot of modern “feminists” who have decided that two wrongs make a right.

It’s good that women feel comfortable expressing themselves and trying to dismantle the patriarchy since it hurts us all. But many of them don’t stop there and end up crossing the line into misandry and blind hatred of men.

This results in these “feminists” saying some pretty bigoted shit like “white men can’t experience racism and sexism” as well as harassing men for seeking support.

This group mocks the male loneliness epidemic out of spite like other bigot groups.

As a male who grew up around males, men are men’s worst enemy.

It’s socially acceptable to hate and be biased against men. Especially white men, and especially working-class white men.

It’s not so socially acceptable to hate on wealthy white men. The point is you have to become a wealthy white guy, or get bent.

You will also notice the discussion is frame that any man who isn’t independently wealthy is a failure at life and undeserving of friendship/love. The advice is always ‘get rich and get fit’ as if that is the solution to your loneliness. It isn’t.

FWIW I never had issue with romance/friends most of my life. But I have had them the past 5 or so years. I’m a middle-class white guy and my social interactions are falling apart. Esp when people find out I don’t fit the archetype of ‘rich white guy’. I’ve had so many people be friendly to me and then they find out I don’t own a home/drive expensive car/etc and they immediately stop interacting with me, because all they want from me is money. I’ve also been accuse of various forms of bigotry more in the past few years when previously I never dealt with that ever in my life.

I think it’s mostly just the ill-affects of social media and people’s warped expectations. I know a lot of people living good lives… men and women both, but they always depressed and angry because they aren’t millionaires. And frankly I find that attitude alienating and it also makes me want to isolate, since so much of what new people I meet talk about is their anger at not being wealthy. And if you ever question this or suggest maybe life isn’t so bad? Well you’re clearly a bigoted proto Nazi…

It wasn’t like this 5-10 years ago. I feel like I got my first taste of ‘men are awful’ social media fueled BS in the 2010s. Now it feels like that’s just he default belief of most people. It’s really hard for me to find a lady romantic or unromantic, who just wants to constantly shit on men generally. And to find men who also don’t shit on other men. And everyone where i live is in this weird scramble to distance themselves from whiteness and masculinity.

For me, I am feeling less and less lonely the more I am alone. Mostly because my perspective isn’t the same as most people’s. I am very happy and comfortable and appreciative and that doesn’t vibe in a world full of very bitter people who think if you don’t subscribe to theri flavor of bitterness, you’re a traitor. I recently bailed on some of my volunteer/community orgs because they have been consumed by judgemental nasty people and they were making me depressed being around people who just want to be miserable and pissy all the time and blame white men for their own personal failings. My favorite is the gender-skeptical types working in low-wage jobs and being angry at ‘white men’ for preventing them from having stable jobs… but the truth is these people are totally unreliable and would be horrible at professional work. They are their own worst enemy.

Much of our media depicts men in successful relationships, handsome, with a good circle of friends, decent jobs etc.

Guys see this and think there’s something wrong because their reality isn’t matching that media.

It’s more exciting to think you’re observing a widespread social phenomenon than to admit your expectations were shaped by fiction.

Men, by and large, create toxicity within their own circles. Male culture has a lot of issues and a lot of unrealistic expectations are put in men in US society. Some external, but the majority come from inside. The whole alpha male culture bullshit that permeantes it. There’s a lot, and I mean a LOT of good that can come from healthy male culture. But right now it’s like men have a branding issue where the loudest among them are also the worst (the Andrew Tates of the world).