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Alt. Link: https://archive.ph/rD2R4
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A 600-word bullet point summary focusing on statistics, comparing China and the US’s energy infrastructure readiness for AI development.
- China views energy availability for AI development as a “solved problem,” unlike the US where it’s a major bottleneck.
- McKinsey projects a $6.7 trillion investment in new data center capacity globally (2025-2030) to meet AI’s energy demands.
- US data center development is limited by power grid stress; some companies build their own power plants. Ohio households face at least a $15/month electricity bill increase due to data centers.
- Goldman Sachs highlights AI’s power demand outpacing grid development cycles.
- China annually adds more electricity demand than Germany’s total annual consumption. One Chinese province matches India’s total electricity supply.
- China maintains an 80-100% reserve margin, meaning it has at least twice the needed capacity, allowing it to absorb AI data center demand.
- The US typically operates with a 15% reserve margin or less, leading to warnings about grid strain during peak demand.
- China’s energy planning is coordinated through long-term, technocratic policy, anticipating demand. The US relies heavily on private investment with shorter-term return expectations (3-5 years), unsuitable for long-term power projects (decade-long build and payoff).
- China directs state funding to strategic sectors, accepting some project failures to ensure capacity when needed. The US lacks this public financing for long-term energy projects.
- China’s pragmatic approach to renewables and coal use, focusing on efficiency and results, contrasts with the US’s politically charged debates.
- Without significant changes in US energy infrastructure funding and development, China’s lead will widen.
Gotta hand it to the fossil fuels industry, they got what they wanted and their propaganda worked.
And now Americans have a janky grid, slower / more expensive transportation, and bigger power bills.
At least we are free*
*Terms and conditions apply
- Be rich
- Be white
- Be male
- Be “Christian”
- Be straight
- just kidding be rich
The last ones the one that matters most but their supporters can’t read a list that long in one sitting.
Capitalism doesn’t solve for society, it solves for capital.
There is no profit in making the world a better place.
It turns out that there is a lot of profit in making the world a worse place.
And likely those statements will not change anytime soon in the foreseeable future.
Turns out stubborn contrarianism and anti-science bias are not viable philosophical foundations for progress; what a surprise.
But for a few fleeting moments we did create a lot of value for the shareholders. Totally worth it to flush it all down the drain.
renowned expert in Chinese technology and founder of the media company Tech Buzz China, [Rui Ma]
Is the person they’re talking about who is “stunned” at how super double awesome China is at powering AI.
Ffffffffffffffuck this.
I like how Americans propaganda themselves - china doesnt even have to anything as Americans will gladly put them on a pedestal to spite themselves.
Crazy how apparent this is on TikTok especially. People with LGTBQ flags are salivating about China while their flags are literally censored there
Anything’s possible when you make shit up kiddo
Eastern European born American guy who is living at eastern Europe right now.
I don’t know about china, but a lot of things in the country of my birth are a lot better than USA. Energy grid and energy pricing is one of those.
I got back to country of my birth because my parent got dementia. I’m seriously considering permanently staying here. It has its drawbacks. But a lot of things are also a lot better.
Sorry to hear about the health reasons. Stay connected with people local, you’ll need help, as that’s super hard. Best wishes and be nice to yourself.
Conservatism is collapsing into irrelevance as a long term commitment.
Close. Conservatism is collapsing the United States of America into irrelevance.
Yeah. Kind of amazing that for all of their America first bullshit rhetoric, Republicans have consistently and routinely neglected our infrastructure to focus time and money on gays, immigrants, and giving out blowies to billionaires
Look at other corrupt governments and you can see some even more startlingly disfunctional infrastructure.
I don’t really give a shit about the AI race and I genuinely hope that we lose it, because I feel like being a winner in that “industry” is inherently unsustainable.
The AI hype is so infuriatingly frustrating.
I just want anyone else to win. All the things. I want US Hegemony to end. At any cost. If that’s AI then good.
I hate this country the way Saw Gerrera hates the empire.
I hope we loose it so we can get humbled. But if we loose, knowing how we are, we’ll likely invent a reason to go to war and steal their talent.
Ai isn’t an arrow, you can’t loose it.
I understand you’re frustrated about the AI race. That’s an excellent point, and it deserves careful consideration. First, in considering the AI race we need to consider what AI is…
Lol
I’m glad somebody got the joke.
Nah.
The first country to adopt LLMs for everything is the one that will collapse first. This is a race where the winners never start and at best stop before they reach the end.
AI will move past LLMs
Maybe. Could also be that humans never invent anything that comes close to a biological brain. Either because we simply aren’t smart enough, or because civilization regresses before we get there. And there’s several trends going on currently which could cause civilization to regress. For example, climate change and declining birth rates (While we could set up an economic system that can deal with a shrinking and aging population, our current one cannot).
Fasciam and religion are bigger threats than ‘declining birth rate’, that one’s just billionaire propaganda. Stop repeating it.
So, why are declining birth rates not a problem?
Why are they? Fewer people, fewer mouths to feed, more value on labor, more natural resources and real estate for the rest of us.
We cant grow forever. Dropping total population in the most ethical way then keeping things steady seems like the most nonviolent cool way to do this.
Tor fucks sake there’s like ten billion people we could keep everything we need going, easily, with half that.
Anf imagibe if we actually valuee people instead of treating them like disposable garbage to throw away in poverty and wars! Wouldn’t that be cool?
Yeah, but my point was that our current economic system can’t deal with, not that we can’t deal with it in general. Migrating away from the current system would require the powerful to give up their power, which they won’t do willingly, even as the walls are closing in. (In fact, when it comes to global warming, the walls are closing in).
How so?
Other algorithms and combination architectures will be invented/rediscovered.
Now AI has relationships between tokens. AGI needs concepts to be related, amongst other things.
I doubt that for the foreseeable future. Llms aren’t new at all the scientific space is old it’s just now popping up because they can do a lot with enormous data sets
Transformers were the kick-start for this generation of AI. Given the flood of money and brains into the area there will be more innovation.
AI is not the panacea they’re making it out to be. This article is attempting to influence readers to support American AI business models to ‘complete’ with China. Except that AI doesn’t make my job easier and is very bad for the environment.
In my case, AI assistants are even confusing and annoying, but since they cannot be turned off, in my case I have to endure it.
Don’t worry. They’ll just ask AI about the grid and it will tell them how great it is.
Edit: or it’ll say FEED ME MORE!
That level of cushion is unthinkable in the United States, where regional grids
Yeah, capitalism will resolve everything by being greedy. Electricity is not and will never be a merchandise. It’s a basic human need and a natural state monopoly.
Need?
Good, fuck the AI industry, we can’t even go to the doctor over here
can’t use power to make everyone use electric cars need power for “AI”
Nice job you jabroonies you did it you lost everything. This is the slow descent of America and it the boomers fault.
My father in law is convinced theres some guy in a garage that’s gonna invent the next big invention, but hey guess what it takes MONEY that regular joe schmoes dont have!!
Anyone who is working on the next big project in his garage is just signing his own death certificate. That’s the truth about the American energy industry and capitalism’s free markets make “healthy competition economy” myth. Traditional American capitalism is long dead.
I am very skeptical of any article that boldly claims that China is on the rise and the US is in decline. We’ve been hearing about this decades. People underestimate just how corrupt, dysfunctional, and incompetent the Chinese system is under the CCP. People think the US is worse only because the US is an open country. China’s isolation give it the illusion that it’s better, but in reality, it’s even worse. Every major Chinese achievement from their mass transit system to their big corporations to their economic growth to them pulling ahead technologically to so many more, all come with big asterisks attached that make them much more questionable.
Chinese infrastructure and manufacturing lead is real. You don’t need to believe any propaganda, just travel and observe.
The asterisks are not about their usecase but political.
China leads the world in scientific publication, even when only taking into account reputable journals and high-impact publications. There’s no doubt in my mind the US will decline further with the current attacks on science and education, and anti-intellectualism in general.
We’ve been hearing about this decades.
Yes, you’ve been hearind that for decades, just like climate change: if you wait for an abrupt treshold with a clear before/after cut , you’re going to wait for a while.
China has developed an advanced high speed trains network. You have no idea how much US looks backward on that.
China still opens coal burning power plants, jut also a very large number of renewable and nuclear power plants. They’re serious about electrification.
They took the lead in scientific publication.
US needs to put up tariffs to protect its car makers from being wiped out by Chinese ones. Western car makers rely more and more on Chinese batteries suppliers.
All the signs are there. You just need to ackowledge them.
People underestimate just how corrupt, dysfunctional, and incompetent the Chinese system is under the CCP.
As compared to what? In the US, corruption is legal, it’s called campaign donation and SuperPAC. At this stage, elections pick which pack of oligarchs will rule: GOP donators or Dems donators.
If the system is so much better, where are the high speed trains, advanced power grid, decarbonation plan, school that can get high potentials to the top, decent healthcare system?
Where are the fruits of this less corrupt dysfunctional and incompetent system?
China’s isolation give it the illusion that it’s better, but in reality, it’s even worse.
Alother delusion from local US news. China is not that isolated, they have developed deep relations with a number of countries in Africa and middle east, and they’re a privileged trade partner with many more. Worse even: with the current US policy of tariffs, several countries that were reluctant to have deeper ties with China are pushed in their arms.
Every major Chinese achievement from their mass transit system to their big corporations to their economic growth to them pulling ahead technologically to so many more, all come with big asterisks attached that make them much more questionable.
Meaning what? Their high speed trains are absolutely working. In large cities, half of the cars in the street are electric cars, majority from domestic brands and a few Tesla. They have very advanced and very cheap mass transit networks.
As I was saying: it’s just like global warming: if you sit and wait claiming it’s not really happening and/or not that bad, you’re totally unprepared when disasters hit you.
The only thing I will agree with you here is their emonomy is not half as great as they want to claim. The estate market has been in a free fall in all but the big 4 cities (Beijing, Shanghai, Guandong, Shenzhen).
But if the US wants to be the first power of the rest of the 21st century world, they need to wake up!
This is the dawn of the new Chinese century. I have no doubt in 20 more years China will be in an even stronger position as the USA continues to decline.
We, the USA, could do all the stuff that would make us competitive. That would require more socialism, more taxing of billionaires, more spending in green energy, education, transportation, healthcare becoming affordable and an actual human right for all in our borders, a real plan to transition off fossil fuels and shore up our domestic energy production and electric grid.
Idk more than that of course but that’s the elevator pitch.
We won’t do it though because corrupt capitalism and the oligarchy.
Maybe we will if at some point enough of us are struggling but we’re pretty fat and have plenty of entertainment to distract us even if we are being fucked. So … Yeah … Desperately hoping I’m wrong about most of my predictions, devastated as I keep seeing them come true.
Brother it sounds like you underestimate what industrializing the largest population on earth looks like. It’s not just happening, it’s kinda inevitable.
It’s also coming from “AI Experts”, so who cares what they have to say. The real question is, what’s their angle by saying this?
To justify pouring trillions of dollars into AI in the US. Oh, and you’re thirsty, so sorry, databank needs your water.
Or looking to suck up the the CCP and get paid to move their operations to China.
The US is very much on the decline, and thanks to the poorly thought out One Child policy- China has also likely past it’s apex. But like the US, it too can cause a lot of damage during its downfall.
India, thanks to burgeoning population and rapid industrialisation is probably the most notable nation currently ‘on the rise’.
We heard the same about Japan.
Soon we’ll be hearing about how Nigeria is spending oil money and growing its manufacturing.
Wait till the U.S. finds out about Brazil and its ability to manufacturer.
When the war is over between Ukraine and Russia, you’ll have two more countries restarting non-military production.
South Africa is picking up everyday.
If Europe ever manages to dig a tunnel between Spain and Morocco the Iberian peninsula and N.Africa would transform.We think changes happen overnight but rise and fall of a power is typically a slowburn.
Every major Chinese achievement from their mass transit system to their big corporations to their economic growth to them pulling ahead technologically to so many more, all come with big asterisks attached that make them much more questionable.
Could you give one or two as examples?
Wow some real critical thinking on Lemmy for once. Thank you! I swear Lemmy is run by propaganda/tin foil hat wearers spewing so much bs rather than remembering were all suffering together at the expense of a few rich people world wide.
So, a few months ago China launched Deepseek and the narrative on US media was all “the fact they didn’t have access to the latest Nvidia GPUs forced them to get creative and develop a model that is more efficient and cheaper”.
Now the US is getting behind on “AI wars” because China has more energy for huge data centers?
How about the US get creative and develop LLMs that are actually useful and can work without sucking Gigafucks of electricity?
