My favorite part is this is exactly what the dems are doing with Trump, their startegy since the beginning was not to stop Trump and just wait for him to ruin the country enough that people vote for them again. They were saying as much earlier in the year too. Hilarious to see how they called all their detractors accelerationist before deciding to join in.
I remember when people were shocked that Latino voters swung towards Trump compared to previous elections. To say that that’s ‘blaming Mexicans’ or immigrants would be an astounding interpretation of that.
idk, there were a lot of liberals on twitter and bluesky saying that mexicans deserved to get deported for voting for trump. There absolutely was a lot of people who were blaming them, even if you yourself didn’t.
I won’t disagree, both because I’m not active on Bluesky or Twitter, and because I know that people are fucking immensely stupid and repugnant regardless of ideology - and liberalism is not exactly a sunshine and rainbows ideology to begin with. But most discourse I saw that applied actual blame to minorities wrt the election was around Arab-Americans.
While I regard protest votes and abstaining as universally unacceptable, the shift of Arab-Americans away from the Dems in 2024 lost us one state, at best - whereas we needed to pick up (or not lose, depending on how you want to see things) three. So while I condemn that on a moral level, strategically, it means very little, and the people who narrow in on that are either expressing some latent racism or trying to avoid the broader issue that the DNC royally screwed the pooch - something that Lemmy, for all of its other faults, quite freely admits.
Most of the discourse around the Latino vote I saw was either shock, or in the context of the male vote in general and without application of blame of the wider electoral failure to the Latino vote. But, again, I’m not trying to contradict that such things were said. I certainly run in left-liberal information bubbles where that kind of talk would be verboten to begin with.
no? literally no leftists side with maga (except for maga communism, but that’s fringe).
You’re not reading the extremely simple comic very well, then.
Dems worked against Trumps opponents in 2015 in the hopes that the electorate would see how bad Trump is and deliver an easy Dem win. It didn’t work like that.
Leftists have been quite openly on here salivating over how working against Kamala and delivering Trump, and Trump being nakedly bad will lead to either the American people or the world as a whole seeing just how bad neoliberalism is, and deliver the long-awaited Revolution™. That’s just as fucking stupid.
Any examples? besides some people who don’t want to vote dem?
From this very comment section:
Republicans and Democrats are both perfectly ok with state violence so long as it’s against brown people, and preferably overseas. How many millions have died from lack of access to affordable health care and an almost non-existent social safety net in the US over the past century? But those aren’t counted as ideological deaths for some reason? If you think that choosing either of the two main parties which both have an official policy of supporting foreign genocides is the lesser evil somehow, you’ve been duped. America has killed more people in wars in the past 20 years than nearly any other state, except perhaps for Russia. You’re just bent out of shape because that state violence has been turned on the domestic population for once. Anything has got to be better than the status quo.
“There is no lesser evil, the only reason you’re upset is because it’s naked now, and that’s implicitly a good thing because it will lead to something other than the status quo”
Or, as I put it:
Leftists have been quite openly on here salivating over how working against Kamala and delivering Trump, and Trump being nakedly bad will lead to either the American people or the world as a whole seeing just how bad neoliberalism is, and deliver the long-awaited Revolution™.
Bonus, also from this comment section:
I respect the american will, they voted for this. It’s good for the world. These minorities didn’t care about the kids in gaza and have a way out compared to them. Why should I care?
Leftists have been quite openly on here salivating over how working against Kamala and delivering Trump, and Trump being nakedly bad will lead to either the American people or the world as a whole seeing just how bad neoliberalism is, and deliver the long-awaited Revolution™.
Besides, the democrats are the neoliberal party. Trump is closer to fascism.
A great many people here on Lemmy will say there’s no effective difference between neoliberalism and fascism.
Are you talking about pre election? Of course you can do something about Trump by not electing him. After Trump won, there’s nothing left to do except let him show everybody why it was a bad idea.
When I hear comments like this, I think that in your eyes democracy is optional when you have somebody like Trump in office. He’s clearly a fascist, so democrats need to arrest him and put a democrat in charge.
If you belong to a party that values democracy, you need to recognize that the fascist is an elected officials and do what you can legally do to maintain control and make sure the voters know who is to blame.
But it’s an inherent issue with democracy, that it only really works if we all have somewhat of a shared view of the world. If the people in a democracy have many different, and opposite views of the world, democracy simply cannot work because we’re not just disagreeing in what the method to reach our goals are, we disagree fundamentally on what our goals are and what the very fabric of our society should look like. That’s why many on the right will say that assimilation is important. And yes that has been co-opted by racists, but originally the idea was that a democracy can only sustain itself if all its members have a shared culture. Pluralism, as has been observed since Plato, only leads to the collapse of a democracy because consensus becomes impossible.
I don’t find democracy flawed by itself, but it is nothing but a cherished and fragile balance that gets watered down and coopted if not constantly maintained.
Coexisting with other opinions is a work that doesn’t end once you get there, and natural foes of it like corporative lobbies, career politicians and now again pointless populists are always there to dismantle whatever was built. It being ‘a thing to fight for’ is reduced to a movie cliche, but it does, unlike feudal caste elite-guided medieval shit, require that effort at all times. Erosion of that understanding leads to what we can see today.
Sharing culture and integration can start right now, and it spontaniously happens on it’s own if not put down, but the same rightwing people would likely draw another isolated Israel on the map than break the barriers from their own side, than accept other people as equals and discuss.
My favorite part is this is exactly what the dems are doing with Trump, their startegy since the beginning was not to stop Trump and just wait for him to ruin the country enough that people vote for them again. They were saying as much earlier in the year too. Hilarious to see how they called all their detractors accelerationist before deciding to join in.
Stupidity knows no ideological borders, it would seem
I mean at least yall went from blaming the immigrants to blaming the socialists for the elections so that’s still some kind of improvement.
Fucking what.
Remember when Kamala lost and lots of people were blaming mexians for voting for trump? They’re referring to that.
I remember when people were shocked that Latino voters swung towards Trump compared to previous elections. To say that that’s ‘blaming Mexicans’ or immigrants would be an astounding interpretation of that.
idk, there were a lot of liberals on twitter and bluesky saying that mexicans deserved to get deported for voting for trump. There absolutely was a lot of people who were blaming them, even if you yourself didn’t.
I won’t disagree, both because I’m not active on Bluesky or Twitter, and because I know that people are fucking immensely stupid and repugnant regardless of ideology - and liberalism is not exactly a sunshine and rainbows ideology to begin with. But most discourse I saw that applied actual blame to minorities wrt the election was around Arab-Americans.
While I regard protest votes and abstaining as universally unacceptable, the shift of Arab-Americans away from the Dems in 2024 lost us one state, at best - whereas we needed to pick up (or not lose, depending on how you want to see things) three. So while I condemn that on a moral level, strategically, it means very little, and the people who narrow in on that are either expressing some latent racism or trying to avoid the broader issue that the DNC royally screwed the pooch - something that Lemmy, for all of its other faults, quite freely admits.
Most of the discourse around the Latino vote I saw was either shock, or in the context of the male vote in general and without application of blame of the wider electoral failure to the Latino vote. But, again, I’m not trying to contradict that such things were said. I certainly run in left-liberal information bubbles where that kind of talk would be verboten to begin with.
I am being sarcastic. I still haven’t fully gotten over when people were blaming immigrants for 2024 elections.
There was a tiktok trend of calling ICE on your neighbors most of which could not vote in first place.
no? literally no leftists side with maga (except for maga communism, but that’s fringe).
You’re not reading the extremely simple comic very well, then.
Dems worked against Trumps opponents in 2015 in the hopes that the electorate would see how bad Trump is and deliver an easy Dem win. It didn’t work like that.
Leftists have been quite openly on here salivating over how working against Kamala and delivering Trump, and Trump being nakedly bad will lead to either the American people or the world as a whole seeing just how bad neoliberalism is, and deliver the long-awaited Revolution™. That’s just as fucking stupid.
Any examples? besides some people who don’t want to vote dem?
Besides, the democrats are the neoliberal party. Trump is closer to fascism.
From this very comment section:
“There is no lesser evil, the only reason you’re upset is because it’s naked now, and that’s implicitly a good thing because it will lead to something other than the status quo”
Or, as I put it:
Bonus, also from this comment section:
A great many people here on Lemmy will say there’s no effective difference between neoliberalism and fascism.
Are you talking about pre election? Of course you can do something about Trump by not electing him. After Trump won, there’s nothing left to do except let him show everybody why it was a bad idea.
“Let the fascist burn down society unopposed” is not exactly a fucking recipe for anything except empowering fascism.
People don’t touch the hot stove and learn their fucking lesson. People touch the hot stove and blame the liberals for burning them.
There is no effective opposition plan to fascism that involves ceding uncontested control to fascists
When I hear comments like this, I think that in your eyes democracy is optional when you have somebody like Trump in office. He’s clearly a fascist, so democrats need to arrest him and put a democrat in charge.
If you belong to a party that values democracy, you need to recognize that the fascist is an elected officials and do what you can legally do to maintain control and make sure the voters know who is to blame.
You do realize there are other options for opposing fascism than “A coup” right?
Yeah, and democrats are doing many things. I think what California is trying to do to counter Texas’s redisctricting is an example.
What are things you think Democrats should be doing that they are not?
That’s exactly what they believe.
But it’s an inherent issue with democracy, that it only really works if we all have somewhat of a shared view of the world. If the people in a democracy have many different, and opposite views of the world, democracy simply cannot work because we’re not just disagreeing in what the method to reach our goals are, we disagree fundamentally on what our goals are and what the very fabric of our society should look like. That’s why many on the right will say that assimilation is important. And yes that has been co-opted by racists, but originally the idea was that a democracy can only sustain itself if all its members have a shared culture. Pluralism, as has been observed since Plato, only leads to the collapse of a democracy because consensus becomes impossible.
I don’t find democracy flawed by itself, but it is nothing but a cherished and fragile balance that gets watered down and coopted if not constantly maintained.
Coexisting with other opinions is a work that doesn’t end once you get there, and natural foes of it like corporative lobbies, career politicians and now again pointless populists are always there to dismantle whatever was built. It being ‘a thing to fight for’ is reduced to a movie cliche, but it does, unlike feudal caste elite-guided medieval shit, require that effort at all times. Erosion of that understanding leads to what we can see today.
Sharing culture and integration can start right now, and it spontaniously happens on it’s own if not put down, but the same rightwing people would likely draw another isolated Israel on the map than break the barriers from their own side, than accept other people as equals and discuss.