Let me explain here, as just one example. There was a tv show that was broadcast in the late 2000’s - early 2010’s. About 5-6 years ago, right when I felt nostalgic and wanted to watch it again, the tv show in question was pulled from all major streaming services, and DVDs of the show were not produced (or if they were, I was never able to get my hands on them). The only way that this cartoonish show was watchable for a time was via second-hand archives on YouTube, dailymotion, etc. However, despite the fact that the show was made inaccessible, the copyright holder’s official website states even to this day that the show is copyright, which means that unofficial uploads on YouTube should be in violation of copyright (the YouTube channels were just amateurish accounts and not credible, official accounts, just to be clear). As such, it was ambiguous as to whether the production company was going to lease the rights to the show. Whilst interest in the show has gone now, it did make me wonder: is it ever justifiable (either legally or ethically, or morally) to pirate media that has been completely pulled from circulation despite the original owner maintaining copyright (and therefore ownership) of? Or, is it (legally, ethically or morally) justifiable to pirate media where the copyright status is ambiguous (i.e. you don’t know if anyone owns it) [classic case study I always hear about: British PSAs, icons of 70’s 80’s and 90’s kids childhoods, yet locked behind copyright doors whose keys may lie in the hand of legal ambiguity]
Piracy is justifiable in a vastly greater number of scenarios than just pulled media.
To keep it short: Yes, it is.
Short, sweet and to the point! Thanks for sharing your view (even if it’s not detailed lol)
If it cannot be purchased for reasonable price on a good medium and owned forever, then piracy is justified.
If buying isn’t owning then piracy isn’t stealing.
Copyright violations aren’t stealing anyways
It’s probably illegal but it’s completely moral in my opinion. Like, wtf are you supposed to do if not pirate? They pulled the show. You cannot obtain it legally even if you wanted to
To add to this the price should be reasonable. If the price for some old ass shit is crazy expensive it’s essentially NOT available legally and should be pirated.
For example Nintendo charging full price for some nostalgia game.
Nintendo is awful in general, but especially when it comes to their old libraries.
deleted by creator
The only time I would say it isn’t justifiable, if it’s a book/game/etc. made by an unrecognised creator who needs every purchase they can get. In every other case, go for it!
It’s always justifiable to pirate shows. Specially in a world where they make it so hard to own the media you are buying.
if buying isn’t owning, pirating isn’t stealing.
If buying were owning, piracy wouldn’t be stealing either. It’s copyright infringement.
Piracy is always justifiable.
Exactly. You’re pirating every time you watch an advertisement.
Go for it. AI basically made piracy legal, or these companies would be facing massive lawsuits, right?
In the start of 2000 the American diffusion rights for Cowboy Bebop was held by Disney. It cost in my region nearly 50$ for 2 episodes on DVD (there’s 26 episodes).
The reason was that « animation » was their turf and they were no good reason for them to let so oriental men be better than Disney at it. So they bought most of the diffusion rights and didn’t distribute the product.
Most of the time … piracy is ethical
Legally, no. The law does not carve out any kind of exceptions here.
Ethically, it’s not a lost sale if you never could’ve bought it in the first place. And I don’t think it’s fair to audiences to say they just don’t get to enjoy the media at all if it’s not officially available. If official means no longer exist, then piracy is preservation.
Morally, creators still do deserve compensation for their work, one way or another. So if you can’t buy the work directly I think it’s good to try and find other ways to support the creators if possible - such as buying merchandise or other projects they’re involved with.
Great write up. This was the blinds of comments I was looking for in this chat.
If no one can own anything, then piracy doesn’t exist.
Download that show. It’s a form of protest, as far as I’m concerned.
Make sure to bind your torrent client to your vpn. VPNs have a killswitch but the binding offers a bit for insurance.
What makes torrenting justified in my view:
- Enshittification of streaming services with ad breaks.
- Shows typically have a 2 year gap before we can watch the next 8-10 episodes.
- Not all shows are available in all countries.
- The customer has to pay for multiple services to binge an entire show.
- Physical media is not always available.
deleted by creator
Legally, no. There are some grey areas to be poked around in like orphaned works whose ownership is ambiguous or contested, but it doesn’t sound like your problem falls into that category. The media company that made the show you’re after still maintains copyright and legally controls every aspect of distribution.
Ethically is a much more interesting question. If you pirated the media you’re after, an older work with no way to watch it legally, the creators aren’t really hurt because you’re not depriving them of revenue. Pretend there were DVD’s to be had though, if you buy them on the second hand market the creator doesn’t get a cut of that sale so who’s really harmed? What if the new price of the DVD’s was more than you could afford or justify spending? If you were never going to be a new customer, does that make it okay to steal since again the creator isn’t losing anything?
Huh, that point about the DVDs is interesting. Only question I would ask is: even if they’re second hand, does it factor into the debate that the DVDs were originally put out by the company and initially bought by someone for the correct price (but then on the other hand, the second hand buyer is paying less for the same show (arguably legally?) but in any case both the first hand and second hand buyers are buying for less than the new price…)
I can’t decide!!!
Someone could make the argument that the secondary market for media is part of the total ecosystem. Someone might be more inclined to buy something new if they know they can resell it later so the secondary market impacts the new market in that way. The creator doesn’t see any of the money being exchanged on the secondary market though so the people really benefiting from it are resellers and collectors trying to unload something. They’re hurt if you choose to pirate instead of buying used.
But in terms of the creator a pirated copy and a used copy are no different. If your desire is to make sure the creator gets what they deserve then you’re best option is new DVD’s or streaming. But, if like the show you’re currently after those options aren’t available, I’d say there’s no reason not to pirate the media. If you still want to make sure the creator gets paid keep an eye on them and buy/stream it if they ever release it.
Wow, that’s a very well thought, articulated opinion. Thanks for sharing
I’d argue the creator sees the second purchaser’s revenue in the original price of the product, and the original purchaser may not have bought if they couldn’t resell.
Net sale is the same, just distributed across two consumers.
Totally fair, I’ve certainly heard the argument made to justify the outrageous costs in the Magic: The Gathering secondary market. What I don’t like about the argument though is that resellers aren’t the majority of purchasers and the number of people buying media solely to resell is a small fraction of the market. I’ll grant you that a small fraction still could be a non-trivial chunk of change for the creator but ultimately why someone buys something doesn’t matter all that much.
Reselling media particularly is an insane risk. Take OP’s show, I don’t think they ever named it, but if the creators dropped a limited run DVD or Blu-ray series tomorrow there would be no telling whether a secondary market would exist at all. If the show isn’t streaming and doesn’t already have a DVD release, it’s bound to be a very obscure show that never got very popular. Those buyers hoping to bet on being able to flip the DVD’s later might be out of luck. So it doesn’t really matter if the theoretical resale-ability factors in or not, the new purchase is made regardless.
But I don’t feel particularly strong about this aspect of the discussion, in fact I almost talked myself out of my position while writing this.
Good points.
There’s certainly nuance there to be considered, which my statement doesn’t really address.
Piracy is quite frequently justifiable, even on common media.
In our modern landscape, the vast majority of creators don’t see a dime when you view their material, so I have no reason to feel obligated to line the coffers of some conglomerate that’s effectively stealing the artist’s money.
I’ll pay for niche streaming services (paying for dropout directly helps the cast and crew) and buy merch from artist sites or shows, but I’m not going to feel guilty that downloading an album off a torrent takes away the fractions of a cent that my streams would give when I can pay them directly for a shirt and physical copy of the album if I ever get to see them live.
piracy is always justifiable.
