When you look at annual statistics of dog bite fatalities, pit bulls aren’t just the #1 cause of dog bite deaths, they account for more deaths than all dog breeds COMBINED.
According to Wikipedia (I understand the irony here) dogsbite dot org has been accused of publishing misleading and inaccurate information. However, pit bulls are terriers and terriers don’t let go when they bite. Most terriers are small ratting dogs where this doesn’t matter so much.
When I was bit by a pit, I was in a fight with his uh, human. The dude was being a dick. The dog looked at me, looked at his “owner” and then lunged at me. I put up my left arm to block my face, thats where he caught me, in my upper arm. The guy jumpped on the dog, started punching it in the head (this guy was a complete moron) and he wouldnt let go.
I played dead. It was isntict, I dont know. After what felt like enterity, I just, took out a deep sigh, pushed all the air from me, went limp. the dog let go, the guy whos dog it was threw him in the bathroom and locked him in there, and I went to the hospital.
My neighbors had a pit that hated other dogs. My sister brought her dog over and it escaped the backyard and jumped through an empty screen door to attack her. I was right there on the porch though and got the dog by the collar. As soon as I got it away from my sister’s dog, it was wagging tail and happy face. Pit bulls are capable of intense focus when they have identified “prey.” Most dog owners are not equipped to deal with the reality of training a dog like that. Luckily I only got grazed in that altercation.
I worked with a lady who had an Akita that did this - she got a call at work one day that her dog had attacked the neighbor’s dog. Had busted through the screen door, jumped OVER the pool, busted through the pool screen, jumped over the fence, and attacked the neighbor’s dog, because she could see it in the neighbor’s yard.
It’s sort of a plus … obviously not in your scenario …. I believe pitbull breeds tend to be one of the protective and loyal breeds, and they do have a very strong bite. I have no worries about my pit bull with my kids but if you frighten her around them you’ll see her instantly change from a cuddle bug to on guard against hell and its minions
Unfortunately they’re sometimes loyal and protective to people who don’t deserve them
I also feel like I need to add that many breeds of dog are very loyal and protective. In the same situation a German shepherd is equally dangerous. Even little dogs are likely to come after you for attacking their human although obviously they can’t do as much damage. I feel like your situation was a general dog issue: many/most dogs are protective and loyal. You really can’t attack their human without them helping (and yes it doesn’t matter who started it or if he was a dick, to the dog you were attacking his human
Dogsbite.org is super diligent about showing the supporting evidence. For example, the last complete year they have is 2019:
https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatality-citations-2019.php
Each death marked with multiple citations.
read any of their about us/other similar links and their bias couldnt be more obvious.
especially funny is the page the dedicated towards complaining about how they’re the target of a misinformation campaign.
majority of studies they link to don’t list breed information at all (because it’s rarely if ever recorded at hospitals).
Go down the list of articles documenting people killed in 2019 and show me where the bias is.
It’s cool, I’ll wait…
Wow, I can’t believe how many women in Joshua Tree were attacked by four pit bulls on that one day in January
Repeat after me, correlation does not imply causation. Two things can be correlated without there being a cause/effect relationship.
What you’re saying is essentially: Pitbull-like races are around 14% of large dogs, but are responsible for 55.9% of fatalities, i.e. more than all other combined. Therefore Pitbulls are dangerous.
I bet you would agree with that logic… Except those are not dog numbers, that’s USA statistics on the African-American population. Congratulations on the racist argument.
Similarly to how there are multiple factors that explain the disparity for African-Americans there are also multiple factors at play for dogs, for example:
- People commonly miss identify pit bulls
- Assholes who abuse their dog tend to prefer breeds that are known for being aggressive. Abused dogs tend to react violently. Thus creating a cycle where dogs that are seen as aggressive are responsible for more aggressions.
I’m fairly confident that if you normalize for living conditions the numbers would not show any significant difference for breeds.
Did you just call black people dogs…? What’s wrong with you…
No, I showed how the argument of a minority of population causes the majority of fatalities is flawed by showing an example of the same argument no sane person would defend. The argument is ridiculous for pitbulls but people don’t see it, use the same argument for people and they see why it’s ridiculous.
Except no- it doesn’t.
Take a pitbull and a labrador. They aren’t simply the same animal with different colours.
Labradors were bred to assist fishermen in retrieving fish. So this would mean being controlled and obedient, not eating what they were sent to retrieve, etc.
Pitbulls were bred to fight other dogs- they were bred for fighting and destroying and that’s it. They’re essentially weapons that decide for themselves. Sure, any animal can be tamed, but it takes effort.
For your argument to work, you have to “concede” (although I wouldn’t use that term because it’s an outright lie) to the racist narrative or what have you that black people are inferior and have less control and are inherently less civilised than white people due to their race. So your argument is a racist one, because it assumes and only works that black people are significantly different to white people, like a different breed of human.
The differences between black people and white people in reality are negligible. They’re not different breeds, they’re both homosapiens. Essentially it would be like arguing black labradors are more violent than white labradors, which just simply isn’t true.
Not only that, but you’re trivialising the struggle of black people against racist oppression to that of people whining against their fighting dog being banned for good reason.
Worst of all, if they were the same argument, it’s like telling racists that comparing black people to white people is like comparing pitbulls to labradors, which would bolster their argument massively, as they’re completely different breeds of dog.
I urge you to recant your argument, you’re basically saying black people are like a more aggressive, dangerous, and less controlled breed of human compared to white people which is an absolutely vile, disgusting, and false thing to say.
Answered in the other copy of this reply.
But I whole heartedly believe that pit bulls by nature were meant to be farm dogs. And if you get one and raise them from birth in a good and loving home than bites won’t happen. With this statistic did any owner say that yea I hurt my dog but only because he or she deserved it…etc etc etc. I didn’t think so. No one man or animal is inherently mean. That is a learned behavior. And with all avenues of information getting to people and children is more likely going to be people who are mean. But born that way. Fuck No. Anyone feel free to prove me wrong for this discussion.
the fuck you mean “by nature”? man made dogs.
I think your thinking of hot dogs.
I’m confused now. Do you genuinely think dogs are a natural species? Because… that might explain a lot about this entire post
Speaking from experience. I adopted a pitbull about 10 years ago. Spent countless hours training it, sent it to a daycare to make sure it was socialized.
Strike 1 was when he got kicked out of the daycare for fighting. Strike 2 was when out of nowhere he bit my friends dog. Strike 3 was when he turned on my border collie and nearly killed her. She was the dog he grew up with and spent every single day with. I had to beat him with a grill spatula to get him to let go, and I was bitten in the process.
My observation with the breed was that they have an instinct built into them and when it triggers they become possessed and they lose all control. Humans don’t usually trigger it, but other pets tend to.
That would be expected behaviour, they have been bred to kill other dogs.
Yep. We found a more suitable home for him.
Should have been destroyed. It’s a ticking timebomb.
We did fully explain the dogs history to the new owner at least. Honestly at the time I dont think I had it in me to put him down tell you the truth.
Fair enough, there’s one thing being on an armchair talking with the benefit of hindsight, and someone else in the moment with something they’re attached to.
Truly one of the worst takes I have ever read. What you “believe” means nothing.
Pitbulls were bred to be as aggressive and strong as possible. They are literally attack dogs made for fighting.
It’s a shit breed that should be made illegal, period.
It’s pretty well known they were bred to be fighting dogs for blood sports. It doesn’t mean they end up that way, but intervention is needed in places other breeds do not require it.
The real question is “why would you believe that?”
They were bred to kill bulls, bears, and rats, in pits so that none of the animals could escape.
Animals aren’t mean, but they can be bred to be aggressive and dangerous. A pitbull probably doesn’t feel malice, but the reasoning in it’s head is incapacitated by years of breeding to essentially be a weapon that will effectively kill and attack ruthlessly. That was it’s purpose. It’s just following it’s instinct. And that’s what makes them so dangerous as well, they don’t realise it’s wrong.
What has four legs and an arm?
A Pit Bull in a playground.
The conversation is nuanced and long, but TLDR is that it is a breed which requires more training than other breeds. It’s also important to note that many owners’ version of training is ineffective or counter productive.
Pitbulls are highly energetic and much like great Danes, grow up physically much faster than mentally. They end up being an extremely powerful dog, chalk full of muscles, who crave constant attention and behave like a puppy. Well, puppies bite, and when a dog bites you, you tend to address it (give it attention). Compounding this, they’re also not very smart and it takes a while to train them. Compounding this further, they have instincts like all dogs where pushing is met with resistance (something Cesar talks about a lot with food etiquette around dogs), and basically everything they do is exaggerated with their enormous energy.
Comparing them to a breed like a Labrador, the obliviousness, energy, strength, and attention needs are not the same.
They can be very good dogs, but effort was made to achieve that. There are dogs who have been bred to be home bodies and they much more naturally fall into a “good dog” category. Pitbulls were bred for dog fighting and blood sports. This is not a good start for family’s first dog.
To put this into other terms. There are chickens who have been bred for cock fights. They can be good roosters, but watch your back and be ready to remove them if they attack your hens. That being said, predators beware. Different breeds have different specialties, if you want one for the look be very deliberate about what actions you are going to take to change the “natural outcome” of their behavior being the behavior you don’t want.
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They’re bred to be fighting dogs. Attacking and killing is in their genes, both physically and mentally. The likes of german shepherds have to be trained to kill, pitbulls have to be trained not to kill.
They were bred to fight. They had generations of selective breeding by human being with intent toward that purpose. If you don’t think they’re more genetically inclined to violence than breeds who were not bred for that purpose, you need a lesson in evolution.
also lot of the owners… own them because of that purpose. they want a ‘tough’ dog because they themselves think they are really ‘badass’.
many pitbull owners are human beings would be way more likely to start a fight with another person. so naturally that carries over to the dog, as dogs mirror the behavior of their owners often.
The vast majority of pit bulls are loving, loyal and make great pets. The problem is if they do attack, they tend to not want to quit attacking. I used to schutzhund train and our club was open to training any breed, we even had a border collie do it for fun. The catchers didn’t let pit bulls do it because the way they tend to bite and re-bite wasn’t safe for the dog or catcher. Even with my American Bull dog at the time, they asked to see when the last breeding with a pit in her breeding line was just to be safe, and they were more cautious in the beginning with her than the shepard’s, rotts, malinois and dobies.
I’ve been around dogs my whole life. Big dogs. Mastiffs, Labradoodles, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, German Shepherds, Dobermans… Along with some experience with little dogs. The only dog ever to bite me, or attack my dogs, were pitbulls. Two attacks, my whole life, all pitbulls.
I dunno, man. It’s just my personal experience, but shit. I know what kind of dog I don’t trust.
Same experience here, dogs of all sizes, shapes, breeds. The only dogs that ever bit me for real were mini poodles, two of them.
Well technically I suppose my pitbull - I stuck my fingers in her mouth to pull out whatever she had picked up off the street to eat, but one time she didn’t see and accidentally bit down a bit. She immediately released and was mortified she may have hurt me
Generally, it comes down to which statistics a “hater” believes. I’ll refer to twain here about lies, damn lies and statistics, since numbers always seem so certain, but can be cooked.
It doesn’t help that “pit bull” isn’t a breed, it’s a “type”, which is vague as fuck all. There’s something like a dozen breeds that get called pit bull, each with their own range of traits. What they have in common is an origin as fighting dogs, including those bred to fight bigger animals.
But if a dog just looks similar to any of those breeds, it’s a pit bull, including mutts with no known ancestry in fighting breeds.
So, folks see a scary looking dog and that’s that, they hate scary looking dogs.
Is the hate justified? IDGAF tbh. Assuming any of the statistics are accurate and applicable, I can understand wanting to limit breeding more, as well as the strict side of enforced euthanasia once a dog turns aggro. But with the vagueness of what gets counted as a pit bull in those stats, and the cherry picking that goes on in such debates, I can’t work up any emotional response to the subject.
But that’s why the hate. They’re scary looking dogs, and when a dog that looks like they tend to look attacks, it’ll fuck its target up worse than something like a Chihuahua or poodle. That much is fact, a big muscular dog with strong jaws can fuck shit up.
From personal experience I had a friend who raised a pit bull from a puppy and his dog was well behaved and trained well. Then when the dog was about 5 years old, it just snapped one day and attacked my friend mauling my friends arm in his bedroom. When he got the dog into the back yard it started ramming the glass door with his head and then ran and scaled a six foot wall and took off never to be seen again. I knew this dog as a puppy and how it was raised so this was a a shock to everyone. This was also in Arizona, where the vet said they have cases of pit bulls “going crazy” from the heat but ever since I have been wary of pit bulls.
Training and control is essential, but instincts are hard to eliminate permanently.
Pitbulls are the hollow points of the dog world. There is nothing wrong with them per se but the consequences of one being misused are so much worse.
Get bitten by a lab or a Yorkie and it’s not so bad. Pits have the bite strength of an alligator and the instinct to hold on, so if you try to pull free or shake loose you are losing muscle or maybe a limb.
Why take on the hassle of a pit bull? Just get a Labrador or a poodle, there are so many easy going dogs. Easier to insure as well. Bit of a needless conversation.
Lol, Labradors are not easy dogs. They are very friendly, but they need a lot of outlet for their boundless energy and constant direction or they become misbehaved. Every other poodle I ever met was undertrained and misbehaved too.
Because sometimes pit bulls need rescuing. We picked one up wandering the side of the road who turned out to be the absolute sweetest and most loving creature we’ve ever known. We walked him and our other dog one morning and a little neighbor dog came running (stupidly) up to attack. Our other dog just spiked this dog’s face into the sidewalk and proceeded to fight back while the pibble just got excited about the new friend.
You gotta be careful though, The one who bit me was a rescue. The guy who took him in was a complete moron entitled asshole, and I ended up getting bit due to this dudes negligence.
Sure, don’t mess with any kind of strange dog, but in my opinion that’s the owner’s fault. That idiot probably has firearms too.
it was, the previous place he came from wasnt good, and then this person got the dog without any proper training, and didnt train the dog at all. I told this person not to get thd dog, they did anyway. I felt bad for him, the pup, and used to walk him a lot each day. Then the fight happened, and he attacked me. I didnt blame the dog but the humans involved. There are people who arnt ready to take in a rescue, who still do so, Ive seen it a lot in my personal life. I didnt mean to say you werent prepared for and knowledgable about training and handling, but, a lot of people out there arnt, yet they still pick up dogs.
Ill never take in a pit because what happened to me. I think thats fair. I also dont think everyone should just take in random dogs they dont know how to care for.
Completely agree that one shouldn’t take on an animal without knowing what to do, but no one has ignorance as an excuse in this day and age.
No beef with you having your own issues with pit bulls based on your personal experience, but I just hate the idea of an entire breed suffering just for being capable of damage.
Same reason we’re not all driving a Toyota Corolla. Labs and to a lesser extent poodles are vanilla AF. And not really low energy or low effort.
They were just examples. It’s not as if the choice is between these two and pit bulls - there must be 100s of types of dog alternatives.
It’s not so much the animal as that I don’t really trust people with that kind of animal, just as I don’t want to see people walking around with a lion, or a machine gun
Mostly just the new breed to gang up on. It’s made worse because while statistically they are being shown as having higher bite percentages, there is some skew because of miscategorized breeds that get lumped together under the unofficial breed of “pit bull”. There are also many more of them than other breeds. Partly because of being en vogue and partly again because multiple breeds are being lumped together.
Holy shit we’re actually starting the doggie eugenics on lemmy now, this comment section is a fucking travesty.
The type of people who want a dog to bite are going to be getting something like the size of a pitbull. A much smaller dog and a human can easily fight it off, they can do some damage, but not as much as the people who want a dog to bite would like their dogs to give. A larger dog and the owners wouldn’t be able to control if the dog would attack the owners, so they won’t accept that.
That is why, in general, (understand there are exceptions). Big dogs tend to be very friendly. Because any big dog that’s not friendly, the owner is going to put it down before it kills someone. Thus big dogs are bred to be friendly. A Pitbull is about the largest dog that you could breed to be unfriendly without risking harm to yourself.
Again, this does not say anything about any particular dog breed. It says something about the type of people who would have a mean dog.
