Shouldn’t it be the default and not require the suspect/subject to actually ask for one? Has there ever been any attempt to make that the norm in any countries? I think the only question should be “do you have your own lawyer you like to use, or are you happy enough with the court-appointed one?”
I’m not even sure opting out should be allowed, but I’m open to hearing reasons why that would be a bad system, or indeed a worse system than the one most countries seem to have now. So many miscarriages of justice could have been easily avoided.
I could see this very quickly being shifted to a norm of “we have provided you with an attorney, you do not need to seek additional council, and since there is no need we will not allow it.”
laws are only as good as the rich allow and the most put upon fight against.
Because the purpose of law enforcement is oppression.
TV shows and propaganda in the US have for decades shown you that " if you have nothing to hide then you don’t need a lawyer" and unfortunately that is demonstrably false. Police are expert interrogators and you alone have a very low chance of getting anything across clearly and without incriminating yourself further. Just shut the fuck up and ask for a lawyer.
And now with for profit prisons it makes sense to get you in jail rather than help you know your rights and protect you.
Cops can never be wrong and even when they are they’re not and they’re not going to face any consequences by doing shit to you. ACAB til the end of the world.
Where I live you’re prohibited from having a lawyer after being charged before the indictment is written. And a lawyer can be charged with conspiracy fi they fail to disclose all that you said to them to the police before you are arrested.
Im not sure I’d call cops expert interrogators, it’s more like they’re playing with a stacked deck.
That’s fair point is they do this a lot more than you or I do most likely.
You’re asking why the state doesn’t exercise your rights for you instead of waiting for you to exercise them.
On the one hand, I see your point. Just make it all part of the process. On the other hand, I have no illusions that rights and representation are going to be brought to me on a silver platter and defended by someone else on my behalf.
They very least that any citizen must be prepared to do is invoke the rights they have. It would be great if we didn’t have to. But a lot of things would be great.
The US supreme Court has decided that remaining silent isn’t actually asserting your fifth amendment right to remain silent. You need to actually affirm it. Nobody’s even pretending there’s logic to this shit. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salinas_v._Texas
The 5th amendment only applies before arrest and during court. You still have the right to silence after arrest, that is a common law right.
Salinas volunteered to go to the police station (he wasn’t arrested), so he had no common law right to silence.
That’s close to what Scalia/Thomas argued but that’s not what the majority opinion says. They explicitly say you always have the ability to plead the fifth and have it not be used as evidence. And it’s true. You never have to self incriminate. But their argument is you have to make it explicit, which is frankly dumb.
Important safety tip.
Thanks, Ray.
In Vega v. Tekoh, the U.S. Supreme Court held, in part, that the jury could not be required to find Tekoh’s Fifth Amendment rights were violated because Miranda warnings are not rights but rather judicially crafted rules, which opens the door for overruling Miranda altogether.
The Vega decision will have a stronger impact on young defendants, the intellectually disabled, racial minorities, immigrants, and anyone unfamiliar with the criminal justice system and more prone to coercion.
And this was in 2014.
Imagine being Mahmoud Khalil right now and talking about the Fifth Amendment. You’re lucky if you can invoke the Suspension Clause.
Because conviction rates would drop by like 40% overnight thats why.
The slavery business can’t afford that slowdown right now.
We live in hell. This is hell. The bad place. Hades. Tartarus. The Underworld. Etc.
Lawyer here! Would just like to say that this is aggressively accurate—Tartarus reference and all.
I can’t imagine how you guys keep it together day-to-day with institutions burning down around you. You’ve got a much closer lens than most. And that much deeper of an insight into just how fucked shit really is.
For-profit prisons is a farce against humanity.
In the US it’s because our cops are incompetent and having a lawyer in the room makes it “too hard” to do an investigation.
In the US, the only answer you should ever give a cop without a lawyer present is “I don’t answer questions without a lawyer present.”
And when they lie to you and try to tell you that you have to answer… don’t believe them. They’re legally allowed to lie to you.
they will try all sorts “interrogation tactics” to get you to confess without a lawyer. some are bordering or even enhanced “interrogation tactics”
Also the fact that they don’t give a fuck about your rights, just their numbers or their own form of personal punishment against you.
Lol
Come on, you know the answer
I am not a lawyer. (IANAL)
You have a lot of legal right you may or may not choose to exercise. For example, if you have the right to own firearms they don’t issue you a firearm just because you haven’t purchased one yet.
If I recall it right, there wasn’t always the concept of a public defender who could represent someone even if they couldn’t afford a lawyer. You had to already have a lawyer in order to even use that right. This was eventually changed and resulted in the creation of public defenders.
From what I have heard, public defenders are really overworked and spread thin, so you may want to have a lawyer setup to represent you if you ever get into trouble with the law. I have also heard it’s good to know several lawyers as the one who can help you draft a will is different than the one to help you purchase real estate and the one to keep you out of jail.
Came here to say this. There’s even been movements like you find in the book Rebooting Justice to try and essentially digitize menial legal matters so that lawyers just have to put the finishing touches on them. I wonder how involved AI will get in the next 5-10 years.
Also 2nd the point on choosing not to exercise certain rights. You have the right to free speech but you may not feel like talking, etc
Also, you are not guaranteed a free lawyer. To be appointed a public defender you have to apply for one and prove your income; over a certain amount and you’re expected to hire your own lawyer.
The court can’t deny you access to a lawyer, but they don’t have to give you one if you can afford your own.
And where are we going to get this army of professionals?
