I am noticing a rise in Holocaust denial with the rising anti-Zionism coming out of the Israel-Palestine conflict. Many of these YouTubers, tiktokers, and podcasters point to the writings of David Irving as proof. I know he is a holocaust denier and an idiot, but I would like to read it so I could point out the exact flaws in Irving’s “evidence” and stop getting the comment “You haven’t even read it!”. I also don’t want to send a penny to this author, but also don’t want to break the law in getting access to it.

How would you go about this situation?

  • jeffw@lemmy.worldM
    27·
    17 days ago

    Download a book? Illegally? Online? Through a popular torrent website?

    I would never do such an illegal and terrible thing!!

  • Apepollo11@lemmy.world
    12·
    17 days ago

    You could just buy the book second-hand. Authors don’t get any of that money, and you’ll be able to get it for much cheaper than new.

  • voracitude@lemmy.world
    12·
    17 days ago

    Ugh, of course those people would point to any source that supports their current claim, without vetting the source itself. They’ll even tell you that of course they don’t support antisemitism, while spouting that antisemitic Irving shit all day, and that’s okay because they pick and choose only what they agree with out of the rhetoric. As though they couldn’t find sources that support their point without the concomitant antisemitism.

    First and foremost, then, I’d go about this by not denying the genocide in Gaza and not saying stuff such as “I bet you love Palestine” like it’s a pejorative, spacecadet.

    My second point would be to recognise that there is no moral or ethical reason not to pirate Irving’s works. If you were able to find it at a library, it would be there because someone paid a publisher for the copy and likely some kind of library license. Some of that goes to Irving. There is no way to deny him profit and acquire his work legally. So, pirate it. Fuck that guy.

      • voracitude@lemmy.world
        5·
        16 days ago

        This is about the shittiest argument you could make. Good luck in your search, maybe you’ll find some self-awareness along the way.

      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
        3·
        16 days ago

        I know you are a Zionist from our previous chats, but I absolutely support going through any of these books with a critical lens. Do your best to try to find inaccuracies or prove what they say wrong, don’t forget to look into the sources they reference throughout the books.

        Use Anna’s Archive to find them all for free, some I have already found full editions available online

  • Dearth@lemmy.world
    8·
    16 days ago

    Buy it from a used book store. He won’t get any money from it and you’ll support a local small business

  • Shotgun_Alice@lemmy.world
    4·
    16 days ago

    Piracy, maybe see if Internet archive has any of his writings. I would just try to find a source where I didn’t have to pay for it.

  • Lovable Sidekick@lemmy.worldEnglish
    4·
    16 days ago

    The ethics of social media dictate that stealing from people you’ve decided are evil is somewhere between totally ethical and a moral imperative.

  • GaMEChld@lemmy.world
    2·
    16 days ago

    You can wheels within wheels this shit for eternity. Answer this question and you’ll have the answer. What do you want to do? Do that.

    You can steal it, buy it, borrow it, whatever. Ultimately there is no objective right answer. If you think you’ll be better equipped to counter argue the message by reading it, I say that’s more honorable than arguing against it without knowing what it is.

  • wpb@lemmy.world
    2·
    16 days ago

    People who deny genocides (either the current ongoing one in Palestine as committed by Israel, or the one carried out by the Germans in WWII) are the lowest of the low. Absolute scum. To see people make excuses for atrocities as the Nakba, Sabra and Shatila, and the Holocaust in real time, as one is happening has been the most disturbing development of our age.

    I don’t think downloading things illegally is OK, and I also don’t think spending money on genocide deniers like Irving is ethical. I also don’t think reading Irving will help you in any way, because genocide deniers are pretty much all the same, and there’s not a shred of credence or validity to what they have to say. If you still wish to see genocide denial and defense of people who say stuff like “Erase them, their families, mothers and children. These animals can no longer live”, and the denial of that which is obvious, you’ll find plenty of it available for free in modern day conservative shitrags talking about the ethnic cleansing Israel has been carrying out for 77 years.