- cross-posted to:
- privacy@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- privacy@programming.dev
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great
I think most people here don’t really understand what’s going on here. Graphene OS is an Android mod with some extra security features designed to run on a hardened hardware. The main goal of Graphene OS is to protect users from some very specific attacks like some devices police uses to unlock phones or some targeted hacks by state actors. Unless you’re worried you may be targeted by such an attack and have some date you need to protect from them you don’t really need Graphene OS. You can run any of the other deGoogles Android mods on any hardware that supports it. You can already buy phones with pre-installed /e/ of iode ROMs. Many other phones support Lineage OS. Also, let’s keep in mind that GrapheneOS only supports Pixel because they don’t want to allow people to run their OS on hardware they don’t think is secure enough. It’s their choice not to support other phones.
Also, Google still controls AOSP so this does not solve any of the bigger Android issues. Motorola forking AOSP and providing the resourced needed to keep the development going would be amazing news. This is just one phone maker promising to fulfill the security requirements of Graphene OS. It’s basically like Dell offering Ubuntu laptops. Good news but it will not have a big impact on the ecosystem.
This is nonsense. Everyone needs the most secure phone possible, especially considering it’s the only device some people will ever own. None of the other de-Googled offerings come close to the security features that Graphene offers, some of which are custom built solutions. They go above and beyond what the typical ROM does, which is why it even supports a lot of banking apps that would normally be blocked.
There’s a good reason people talk about GrapheneOS a lot lately, and not any of the many alternative Android ROMs that exist.
Also, let’s keep in mind that GrapheneOS only supports Pixel because they don’t want to allow people to run their OS on hardware they don’t think is secure enough
Obviously. That’s the point: Graphene isn’t just any de-Googled ROM, it’s specifically a product designed for security-conscious users. If someone doesn’t care about security and just wants to dick around on an old Android device, they can use one of the many toy ROMs out there (like iodé)
The main goal of Graphene OS is to protect users from some very specific attacks like some devices police uses to unlock phones or some targeted hacks by state actors.
That’s simply not true. It does do those things, but that’s not “the main goal”. Not sure where you got that from?
This is nonsense. Everyone needs the most secure phone possible,
This is nonsense. GrapheneOS is like 0.00001% of the market. Almost everyone in the world manages to survive just fine “dicking around on an old Android”. Only people that can be targeted by state actors really need GrapheneOS. Most people when forced to choose between unlocking their phones or being denied entry to a country, being stopped from boarding a plane or simply spending some time in jail will quickly unlock the phone and hand it over to police. Having extra secure OS is meaningless to them.
I understand you have some sensitive data on your phone and you would rather be detained than unlock it and that’s fine. Graphene OS is for you. I’m sure you’re already using it on a Pixel device. Motorola will offer you more options but that’s it. Not much will change.
If you live in the united states, then you DO need protection against police and state attacks.
I never said you don’t. I’m saying that if you DO need it you should be running GrapheneOS on a Pixel already. If you can wait a year or two until this phone comes out it’s clearly not a “must have” for you.
Nice try officer.
If you’re worried about police getting your data you’re already using GrapheneOS on a Pixel device. This is good news for you because you will have more options when changing phones in the future but not really a game changer in any way.
It’s not just degoogling is the reason for using grapheneos. There are many other user friendly controls. For instance, you block apps from network use, so your click farming game doesn’t track everything about you.
iode has a build in app that let’s you automatically block trackers for each app. You can manage internet connection and allow specific trackers separately for each app. I think internet access is a basic Android permission, any ROM can just block internet access for apps. I’ve used iode before, I’m using Graphene OS now. If restoring all the apps wasn’t such a pain in the ass I would go back to iode. It also had a nice ‘long press’ navigation button shortcut feature, pattern unlock for the lockscreen and automated backups to self hosted ownCloud instance. Graphene OS is good but it’s not a game changer.
While the Motorola/GrapheneOS news is interesting, it’s a shame that GrapheneOS’s lack of root access continues to be a significant limitation. For users who prioritize data ownership and the ability to create full, local backups (Swift Backup being a prime example), it’s simply not a viable option. Security is important, but so is control over your own data.
Have you seen the “Shizuku” app? It utilises the debugging api to give some extra permissions that regular apps wouldn’t usually get. Works on GrapheneOS and can give SwiftBackup a lot more power on devices that can’t grant root access. You might find you don’t need full rooting.
Guess I know which brand my next smartphone upgrade will be.
If they did some nice 7" tablets too, that would be perfect.
Lenovo/Moto is weird about that… The android phones and android tablets have next to nothing to do with each other.
I do have a couple of their tablets and like them well enough, but you might as well consider them an entirely different vendor versus the Moto phone part of the business.
Well that’s a shame.
I’ve been looking around for a replacement to my aged Samsung A6 (which has been given an extended life by replacing the factory ROM with something with less bloatware, but is still pretty limited in terms of memory) which is not a Surveillance Outpost for just who knows how many nations and just about any companies willing to pay the 3 cents of whatever for the data, and all the Linux and degoogled Android makers only have 10"+ ones, which are too big for my use case which carry a tablet on a coat or trousers back pocket when I’m going to be sitting down somewhere and waiting for something so that I can read books and maybe browse the internet on their free WiFi.
Personally I would LOOOVE a small Linux tablet, but I’m OK with some kind of privacy respecting Android which isn’t riddled with backdoors mandated by governments which have Information Courts issuing Secret Bulk Information Collecting Orders, like the US and the UK.
I remember my original Moto G. It was a good phone for the time. I will follow Graphene wherever they go until a Linux phone is ready.
Hello Moto!
Let’s see if it gets released before GrapheneOS and unlockable bootloader get outlawed
OEM, they can lock the bootloader. So at least there’s that
This is crazy big news.
W Moto ❤️🩹
Any non Google phone running graphene would be epic.
Having a vendor explicitly supporting it…epic is an understatement.
I had completely forgotten Lenovo bought Motorola from Google some 10 years ago. Honestly haven’t seen a Motorola phone in at least that long …
Been using motorola for a long time. I bought Moto Z in 2016 and it booted with “Motorola company” text in the end of the boot video. After Lenovo acquisition, phone updated and video now said “Motorola, a Lenovo company”.
Thankfully, Motorola haven’t entshittified over these years. Still a solid phone. Almost no bloat.
Very interesting, I’ll keep an eye on Motorola phones. Not that I need a new one anytime soon, but still that’s the kind of thing that could be refreshing to read news about.
They spotted an opportunity
Android seems intent on creating a huge market for this. Chef’s kiss!
What’s the likelihood that Motorola will eventually lock down GrapheneOS though? Imho it’d be a bad move if they did. The FOSS mobile OS community has matured to the point that we don’t need to rely on for-profit monoliths any more. Motorola would be smart to lead the way to where the mobile device economy will be.How would Motorola lock it down? They don’t control it in any way.
Oh snap, I misread it as Motorola bought GrapheneOS! This is way better news than I realized! Thx for the clarification. 🫡
Edit: On reflection can FOSS even be bought since it doesn’t have an owner to pay? I’m caught up now.
On reflection can FOSS even be bought
Yes, you can pay developers to stop publishing new changes. Basically hire the people developing it and stop releasing the code. Community can try to still develop it independently.
At the limit though they’d have to pay every coder with an interest in that software’s development and enough time for a hobby. I guess they could target distribution like Codeberg but alternatives would eventually fill their place.
Normally there’s a small group of people with expertise doing most of the work. If you poach them and pay them to work full time on the project it will be really hard for the community to compete.
GrapheneOS is open source, Motorola - just like anyone else - can make changes to it before they install it on their devices.
Like a locked bootloader and bloat.
That’s not what “lock it down” means.
What does it mean to you?
Prevent changes. Locking down software project would mean making it closed sourced. Locking down hardware means preventing software/firmware changes.
We meant the same thing then. Nothing prevents Motorola from making changes to GrapheneOS, making it closed source, and blocking software/firmware changes on their phone so that you can’t install the open source original.
Any phone manufacturer can do it and they don’t need any special deals with GrapheneOS for that. GrapheneOS would definitely not support Motorola making some secret changes to the OS before installing it so this news is the complete opposite of such situation.
Different tense.
I wasn’t using it in the privacy hardened sense.Just realized it refers to the same thing both ways. GrapheneOS is user-side hardened whereas iOS is producer-side hardened.
matured to the point that we don’t need to rely on for-profit monoliths any more
Which phones are we using for Graphene OS at the moment? Ah, yeah… Google… well known for its non-profit behaviour… I say: Give me alternatives which we aren’t to try to get rid of in the first place.
See: PinePhone (Ubuntu Touch, postmarketOS) for $149-199 via their intl site: pine64.org.
OR
SF’s Librem 5 (PureOS, plus Ubuntu Touch, postmarketOS) for ~$700 via puri.sm.
Both shippable to the US. They’re unpolished OSs and expect delays, but they do exist. The competition will only increase going forward.
Both are alternatives, but not fleshed out as far I know. There is also e/OS, but it’s the same story. So we actually don’t have a viable solution
Also: Why is “shippable to the US” a criterion for FOSS or the rest of the world? You know, there are other Countries on this blue Marble…
We’re speaking English and the US is by far the largest demographic for English speakers on BlueSky. The UK is the second closest and represents 5-6x less people. I genuinely wish you luck with how you engage with people in the future.
I always thought Pixel was the platform to have for fucking around with the OS and stuff. Of fucking course I was an idiot.
“Embrace, Extend, Extinguish”. When have they ever done otherwise.
Point of order: That was Microsoft rather than Google.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Yeah, I’m aware that Microsoft coined that phrase, but Google seems to be doing something quite similar.
Google embraced the creation of an open-sourced Android project, extended its capabilities with centralized software distribution, and is now extinguishing by forcing developers to comply with its new requirements and banning third-party app stores.
Don’t be too hard on yourself, they definitely put money and effort into influencing opinions in all the subversive ways they can manage. But also, let this be a lesson to always check alternatives and their reason for existing. I consider it part of best practices.
And who do you want them to partner with exactly?
The only “good” one is Fair Phone and Graphene has already spoken about their lax approach to security.
I’ll admit I’m not that informed in the field, but did Samsung have any controversies that caused everyone to consider it worse than Chinese-owned companies? The only negative I’m aware of is that their stuff is really overpriced.
