I’ve seen a couple comments now to the effect of “it’s not more walkable” or “there’s no pedestrian roadway”.
If you go and look for yourself, however, both sides of the road clearly have a spacious, separated pedestrian and cycling roadway.
The roundabout in the OP is at the intersection of East Auburn and Harrison in Rochester, Michigan if anyone wants to see for themselves.
Edit: here’s the renovation plan if anyone wants to enjoy it over a slice of stale toast and some elevator music.
Michigan, USA
spacious
I forgotten how fucked American roads are where that’s “spacious” to them 😂
It was hideous before.
As a non American, what even is that first picture? Is that a common “design” (or lack thereof) in American towns?
It really is just asphalt with paint. Not even proper signs. At least from this one picture I wouldn’t have expected an intersection there.
As an American the top picture is very typical of less urban areas. The bottom looks very a-typical around my parts.
That’s almost every suburb in the US and Canada. It’s sad.
Suburban/stripmall decline. Hey that mud is gross, pave it. Hey I don’t want to mow that, pave it. Hey everyone is already driving over that, pave it.
Now that cement is super expensive you don’t see it as much, but for a while, the answer to any problem was “pave that sumbitch.”
Hey I don’t want to mow that, pave it.
Hey I hate stroads and car brained infrastructure too but honestly fuck mowing lawns, I relate to that instinct.
I dont get the hate honestly.
Sure it might not be how you would do it but its infinitely better than it was.
There are two kinds if people in this space. This first kind that want better designed towns in general who reject the carcentric designs of the 50s and 60s that we are stuck with. The second kind are bike supremicists who wont be happy until every roadway is bike only. They couldnt give a rats ass about peedtrians, they just want to be the biggest thing in the road.
I just want something more substantial than paint between a car and my toddler as I pedal pur way to daycare.
Another view of the same area, now designed as a street.
It’s a huge improvement for sure. But I also have to say most “underdeveloped” countries have better infrastructure than how it was before. I would have hardly called it infrastructure. It was just an area with asphalt and some paint.
It looks so much nicer now!
Where’s the bike lane?
Fuck bike lanes. This gives the road to bikes, and forces cars to go slower
it’s really irritating to cycle in front of an impatient driver even when there’s a 20km speed limit and a red light waiting ahead (some are irresistibly attracted to red lights. They want to drive as quickly as possible to just sit there and stare at it 🤷
👉🔴👈
It’s really fun to force cars to go slower than bikes. Fuck cars.
You’re in the wrong community my dude
Nope. Fuck cars. All roads should be for cyclists.
Bike lanes give guaranteed space for bikes, whereas a bike-compatible road can end up with road hogging cars giving no space for bikes, and I’m booked having to “filter through” when there’s traffic - which also increases risks for the cyclists
And also not understanding of the average Rochester hills driver.
I mean it’s Michigan it’s not like the drivers even know what the lines mean anyway, I’m not sure adding special lines for bikes would make a difference.
/s in case it wasn’t glaringly obvious
A few of these conversions near my home town and they are fantastic
Still flawed, but a step in the right direction. Though I suppose you want to take baby steps to avoid backlash from sudden stronger changes.
Absolutely don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
The next step would be for people to voice there desired improvements and additions. This can be the addition of bike paths, raised crosswalks, bollards at intersections, benches and tree shade, patio areas and pedestrianised streets, dedicated tram ways, anything to turn a street into a destination as opposed to a thruway (or throughway).
Anything that can be done to push in the “right” direction is a win when it comes to improvements of infrastructure. Often enough we see cities get stuck in “planing and studies”, and rarely implement, as to not inadvertently make a select few “unhappy”.
Instead we all left collectively “unhappy”, as opposed to a select few of us “unhappy”.
Agreed. Perfection is the enemy of progress.
Massive upgrade!! Kudo’s to them.
One thing that it lacks though is protected bicycle lanes.
I mean, it’s better than nothing, but it’s not exactly a great conversion.
Both setups waste space like crazy that could be used much better.
- They are using a roundabout as a slow-down area. That’s ok, though not exactly great. The road leading up to it is still straight and uninterrupted, which means crossing pedestrians still have to deal with speeding cars.
- There is a pedestrian crossing with an island, which is an improvement.
- They added a road-center green space. These things are a total waste of space. They can’t be used for anything. They look nice when driving by, but other than that, they do nothing. If they had moved it to the side of the road, it would at least increase the space between pedestrians and cars, but this way, it does nothing but increase speeding, because it separates cars from the oncoming traffic visually.
- They added bike stands, but no bike paths even though there’s more than enough space to do so.
- They added two lights. Well… Better than nothing I guess.
- Continuing with the motif of wasted space: That roundabout center island is a huge one.
Looks like a redesign by a rookie designer who has never been to a place that actually does it right. It looks like something that was built in the 60s in Europe.
They are using a roundabout as a slow-down area. That’s ok, though not exactly great.
Why? Roundabouts are good for traffic calming and are generally considered better than four-way intersections, especially in areas like this.
The road leading up to it is still straight and uninterrupted, which means crossing pedestrians still have to deal with speeding cars.
I mean for like a few seconds of driving it is? Every 40 meters or so is a large outcropping for the pedestrian/cycling crosswalks, which doesn’t curve the road but does visually calm traffic. Every other intersection is a roundabout that does curve the road.
Will people for the love of Christ just actually go look at what they’re talking about for five seconds before writing out a lengthy response to it?
There is a pedestrian crossing with an island, which is an improvement.
Agreed.
They look nice when driving by, but other than that, they do nothing.
Besides improve noise pollution, reduce the heat island effect, absorb rainwater, reduce headlight glare at night, improve the speed calming function of the traffic island…
If they had moved it to the side of the road
The side of the road is being used for street-side parallel parking. Regardless of what you think of that, though (I think it’s a great idea here), there’s no reason they needed to move it to the side of the road. Moreover, while not directly on the side of the road, there’s greenery (including trees) planted in fenced-off areas separating the cycle/foot lane and the smaller sidewalk that’s used for the street-side parking.
but this way, it does nothing but increase speeding, because it separates cars from the oncoming traffic visually.
Okay, now you’re just baselessly asserting that traffic islands like this that tighten the space of the roadway have the opposite effect that they actually empirically do (while also reducing collisions, of course).
They added bike stands, but no bike paths even though there’s more than enough space to do so.
See above about actually going to look at what you’re talking about. There are spacious bike paths. These bike stands are repeated several times across this stretch of road too.
They added two lights. Well… Better than nothing I guess.
You mean the street lamps? They added four – one at each corner of the intersection and should be adequate lighting. Again, just looking with your human eyes at the things you’re talking about…
Continuing with the motif of wasted space: That roundabout center island is a huge one.
The roundabout’s island is about 12 meters in diameter – extremely reasonable for this setup.
Looks like a redesign by a rookie designer who has never been to a place that actually does it right.
Not experts like you. I’ll bet they actually surveyed the place they were building at before designing for it. Rookie mistake.
Yeah, you want a lorry or a bus to actually make it through the roundabout. The size is absolutely appropriate.
tldr, sorry best i can do is make reactionary comment to the title
Round abouts are great.
But I agree that it lacks bicycle infrastructure.
Aka. Protected bike lanes.
Very few countries do this correctly, I live in the Netherlands so I’m spoilt with good pedestrian and cycling infrastructure
Hum… Have you seen any actual improvement?
Because it doesn’t look more dense, it doesn’t look more walkable, there’s a bicycle parking spot but there doesn’t seem to be any reason to bike there…
What could be present that would give you a reason to bike there ?
As a cyclist I hate roundabouts, it actually takes more time & more dangerous, than just hiring authorities to issue traffic tickets to bad-dangerous drivers.
Here in my area, people would get fed up with the roundabout and just hang a left and drive right over the walkway to make a U-turn to get to the other side of the road.
What’s with blocking the left and right sides of the road with all the grass and trees and stuff anyways? We’ve had many otherwise successful businesses get shut down when they decided to block the ability to access both sides of the road easily.
Roundabout, cool 👍
Grass and trees blocking turns, not cool 👎
- Greenery and beautification in my urban hellscape? Who needs it!
- Refuge island for pedestrians? Who needs it!
- Combating the heat island effect? Who needs it!
- Reduced noise pollution by planting trees? Who needs it!
- Traffic calming? Who needs it!
- Reduced risk of accidents using a physical median? Who needs it!
I’m not even a little sorry: the people there in your area – if this isn’t satire – sound like carbrained five-year-olds who shouldn’t be piloting a two-ton metal box.
The divider killed half the businesses and job opportunities near me, as nobody can find an easy way to turn to get to what used to be a Sonic and a Church’s Chicken, amongst many other businesses that used to exist, until the divider dried up their business and they closed down.
Imagine having to drive 50m to do a U-turn. Literally communism, amirite?
But seriously, that’s probably an intended feature, because people randomly turning into oncoming traffic is one of the main causes for accidents. Also note the double yellow line in the “before” image, so turns were prohibited even then.
Okay, I’ll give you that double yellow line thing, gotcha.
In our area, that similar area was literally a turning lane, before they decided to dirt and grass/tree over it. It was once a literal turning lane.
every single one of em should lose their drivers license. Suddenly the roads are even safer now
It looks nicer, but a huge & obvious problem is there is no pedestrian roadway! So what crosswalks (& as mentioned in other reply, the mirage that roundabout is better for pedestrians) are better, please.
![[image] when good infrastructure design does not just prioritize cars its a plus for everyone.](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d469ed6b-d0c3-44d0-a3a8-aafcf7dc2fff.jpeg){kind=link}