but when the cards hit the table, he rolls over, shows his belly and shits himself
He should have activated the national guard weeks ago. He should have had them on the streets everywhere that ICE was at, Following them where ever they went, with orders to intervene anytime they stepped out of line.
He should have been ordering every state law enforcement agency to follow ICE, and arrest them every time they abducted a child, every time they assaulted an innocent civilian, anytime they’ve murdered an innocent person.
but instead of doing anything useful and proactive to protect his state, he keeps going on twitter and begging “pwease mistur pwesident, stahp hwurting my pepulz. pretty pwease?”
Oh shut the fuck up, honestly. I think I’m going to delete Lemmy, the amount of fucking no bodies who have never had a hard day in their life calling for State governments to police federal agencies and blood to run in the streets is madness. You all have no idea what you’re actually advocating for.
Oh look, someone using their imaginary narrative of things no one said to try and derail the topic.
Gee, I wonder what group of people would have a vested interest in trying to derail this topic, by claiming people are calling for blood in the streets… while ICE is literally pouring gallons of blood in the street every day that they never seem to have a single critical comment on. 🤔
Not like, “taking Saudi money to look the other way over political assassination” dirt, but like typical, milquetoast establishment Democrat corruption, some money changing hands somewhere, maybe something to do with China. The kind of thing that the Republicans would do and it would be buried in the news cycle within 5 hours, but if a Dem is caught cheating even stupidly and mildly, they will roll over screaming like a startled baby goat.
Dems are too hung up on “The high road” and fold so easily under the slightest threat of being called out for something improper. Looking at you Al Franken, for forever staining the entire liberal left with the shame of being the weakest, most pathetic losers, incapable of actually protecting their constituents.
Or maybe there’s really no difference between the Democrats and Republicans. It’s a capitalistic show for the easily manipulated citizens of the US Empire, that have been propagandized since early on in grade school.
I will continue to try. We don’t have a lot of other options, but this isn’t a bad option, unless you only watch the bad news.
You are right about the Dems. But we have to stop getting lost in these stupid 4-year federal kayfabe WWE spectacles, when the people and organizations that hold up the Federal state are the local judges, mayors, community leaders and elected representatives.
The USA is too large and our current voting system is simple enough that it would take a very large, concerted effort to cheat the entire thing, or we wouldn’t see people like Mamdani and other progressive/socialist leaders that we saw come into power last local election cycle, and if we actually all got off our asses instead of being cynical and actually built more grassroots movements like New York did, we could kick the legs out from under this entire fetid cauldron of corruption.
I can assure you that in the US a presidential paramilitary invading cities that are overwhelmingly white and shooting citizens in the face live on social media is indeed a new phenomenon.
Sort of. Miller has been involved in developing and test running the concept on years, see Hungary (field test of the fearmongering populism + the “Mike Johnson” special - we had “don’t know, wasn’t there, didn’t hear about it, ask someone else” press conference memes like 12 years ago) and other examples. Definitely involved to some degree with Fico and Putin, and to a lesser extent, Babis, Meloni and Simion. They weren’t sure they could get away with it last time Trump was up there, although if my memory serves, national guard was deployed due to maybe BLM?
I mean really, it’s shocking how fast it ramped up but I cannot say that I’m truly surprised it did happen, and if I look back at the people involved in it, it seems more like a gentle increase of the knob than a sudden twist. It’s also just that the higher you are on the dial, the closer together are the red lines.
They basically spent the last 4 years planning how to make it happen as quickly as possible.
If they haven’t finished within a year, the job risks getting much harder with an uncooperative Congress. So they have to speedrun it, no chance to do it by slow measures.
However even if 2027 swears in the results of free and fair elections, their goals are still doable, since the government said point blank the only group that can possible hold Trump accountable is 2/3rds of the senate, and that’s not happening, and everyone else that might otherwise be more reachable can be pardoned by Trump at will.
So they can get in the way of new legislation, but not pass anything (veto also needs 2/3rds, which they are not getting). The administration has already proven that they don’t wait for a law when they really want to do something.
So unless democrats somehow win every single senate race that’s up for grabs in 2026, they still aren’t going to be able to do anything by the book to actually walk things back.
I mean really, it’s shocking how fast it ramped up but I cannot say that I’m truly surprised it did happen, and if I look back at the people involved in it, it seems more like a gentle increase of the knob than a sudden twist. It’s also just that the higher you are on the dial, the closer together are the red lines.
Yeah I wouldn’t say I’m surprised, and I wouldn’t say it’s entirely “UnPReCEDenTeD” or anything, but it is new and different in terms of scope, brazenness, and certainly technology. We’ve struggled with periods of waxing and waning fascism and fascist-like governance for practically the entire history of the country. The Alien and Sedition Acts were passed into law when the country was less than two decades old. But this is still shocking, smothering, abhorrent and a departure from even ten years ago.
The argument that the US is or was always like this and could only be like this is, in my view, made intentionally to paralyze and further demoralize those of us in the US who wake to a fresh, new hell on a daily basis.
Yeah I get it, but I just grow tired of the argument – and it doesn’t solely come from .ml users but is broadly-speaking a tiring recurrent Internet argument – that nothing ever changes and that everything has always been like this even when it obviously and provably has not.
I know the history of the US from many perspectives, I don’t need essays about it, I am educated enough to know that a great many countries have a lot of blood on their hands.
I am more concerned with solving issues here and now that harm people than joining bandwagons or tankie clubs and self-flagellating about it though.
These kinds of lists just serve like incel manifestos for people hung up on nationalist persecution rather than sexual insecurity.
Wild take. You read about the US recently killing civilians in many different countries, and that brings you to sexual insecurity? Another liberal that would rather bury their head in the sand rather than open their eyes. I wish I could say I was surprised.
The US being the largest global terrorist organization isn’t a thing of the past, it’s very much the present. Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden, and basically all before them took part in the atrocities. Yet, the solution to this problem seems to be: “vote blue no matter who.”
Go ahead and march around in costumes then, let me know how it works.
I’ll be organizing community and grassroots work like happened in New York. I know you’re probably offended by optimism but I am still fighting for my country. Not just whinging how bad things are bad.
A number of people here have no idea what they’re writing about, because they’re not actually from here. I saw some asshole yesterday holding up John Brown as a successful model of how a new American civil war should be fought, lol.
John Brown. If I could find it again I’d screenshot it. This is all just “let’s you and him fight” nonsense.
The number of people on Lemmy alone who will go into frothing rage when you tell them that we’re not about to have a civil war at all actually, at least not this century, tells me a lot about either how uneducated our population is, or how many people really, really get off to cosplaying as Americans online, and think they have even a fleeting idea of what daily life is like here.
Help isn’t coming. Revolution isn’t happening. But we’ve been here before in history, we can turn it around again if enough people work together.
i understood your point very well. My point (which i deleted because other commenters had already made similar points and with more detail than i was planning) is that your example of a victory is in fact a loss.
Mumdani is a release valve to stop radical change from happening, a compatible liberal gatekeeper who will take the passion of his electorate and destroy it by a thousand disappointments.
He is a democrat, who surrounds himself with zionists. The only radical thing about him is his identity. He is a muslim Obama, a brown-face genderswapped AOC. He is there because of his identity and his vibes.
If Bernie had won Iowa and if the DNC was at all democratic in its internal processes (superdelegates, ticket-splitting, pied piper etc) then i would share some of your optimism for internal change. We don’t live in that world. A world where people like MTG are allowed to evolve beyond partisan lines, where Massie is able to defend his constitution…
I also don’t want to blackpill you guys into inaction, so i’ll finish this mostly redundant post by saying the american people seem ready for change. The numbers of people hitting the streets to fight ICE is inspiring, and a much more concrete reason to hope than a bunch of exhausted and politically illiterate new yorkers protest voting for a god damn fucking democrat.
I don’t know why you think this is the secret that ends his career. Dems fail the purity tests of the type of people that actually care about that and voted Trump by not showing up. Or in even worse cases, went full horseshoe theory and actually voted Trump.
a) Reasonably tepid president’s vice president. No great achievements, but no strongly notable transgressions against the people of the country. Policies not actively progressive but not actively hostile. Supports Ukraine. Supports Israel. Runs on the platform of moderate politics.
b) Multiple times convicted felon, strongly suspected of being a pedophile and child trafficker. Catastrophic first term. Weak foreign policy in first term, already schmoozing up to military enemies of the country. Supports nothing but his own pocket.
How is that not a purity test? Even if you’re a normal person that is sternly anti-Israel, you have singled out one issue in which one candidate performs (probably, we don’t even know) worse than the other one. And still outperforms the other one on all other issues unless you’re a ten toes down white supremacist with the sole life goal to make sure people with a darker skin color suffer and a deeper pocket prosper. That’s what we call, say it with me, a purity test. Your refusal to go out and vote is complicity in the murder of Renee Good and Alex Pretti. Don’t preach to me about humanity, you’re probably not even from the US.
Thing is, I care about humanity, not just “the people of the country”. Therefore, “supports Israel” is a dealbreaker.
Supporting the existence of Israel is supporting genocide. I will never vote for someone with such blood on their hands. If you would, especially to maintain your own comfort and privilege, then your soul is compromised.
No, it’s not lol, it’s completely inconsequential. They didn’t protect the protestor whose hand was blown off by ICE’s use of “less lethal” munitions this morning. I don’t give a fuck if they pass out donuts and do some PR segments, there’s no evidence to suggest they’re meaningfully on our side… yet. Especially after state police brutalized protestors at the site of Alex’s murder.
I’m eager to be wrong. I think it’s a vital turning point so I very, very, very much hope to be wrong. But I don’t see it yet.
Serious question, what would demonstrate they’re meaningfully on our side to you, but wouldn’t be a literal civil war? Because short of that, federal troops feeding protesters is a big deal.
Following ICE wherever they go and documenting their conduct. Civilians are already doing this and Walz has requested that they do so, so having the military do at least what you’re expecting the citizens to do is literally the bare minimum.
Warning citizens when ICE is approaching, perhaps even using state emergency warning systems. If this is considered protected First Amendment conduct for citizens, it may be for military as well. I’m not sure from a legal perspective, but they should be risking it to protect citizens. Especially since Trump constantly takes an “ask for forgiveness, not permission” approach.
Put state resources behind the prosecution of Alex Pretti’s murderer. (It’s been intimated that this is being done via the BCA but I’m not seeing any actual indications of progress.)
Put state resources behind enabling a general strike / eviction freeze / other economic benefits to both enable protest and prevent vulnerable immigrants from needing to go to work.
Not fucking sending state police to brutalize protestors at the site of Alex Pretti’s murder.
I think those would all fall short of “a literal civil war”.
I see federal troops feeding protestors as an attempt to maintain the perception of the state as a legitimate authority without actually needing to take any meaningful action. “Look guys, they’re with us!”… except when the bullets / less-than-lethal projectiles start flying.
Is a great thing, I hope they do this (though if they do follow through I suspect trump will order them to stop)
Would unfortunately be a civil war thing - it’s not open conflict, but it would require the subversion of federal systems (the emergency warning systems) to actively sabotage federal troops. I don’t know about the free speech rights, but generally speaking the military has sharp restrictions on what counts as free speech.
Another serious question (and setting aside the question of legality because who fuckin’ cares at this point), what resources should the state put out to support this? Having worked with several state governments, there’s not really “spare cash” floating around to enable this kind of unbelievable expenditure, so it’s somewhat limited to an eviction freeze (which is almost entirely out of the state’s control)
Not really a national guard thing but fair enough. I’ve seen some limited vids from there but most of what I’ve seen was one violent interaction then the police fled, was there more than that? I’ve seen people say they came back that evening but I can’t find a good source for that.
I too see 1. as the unambiguous thing to do, follow ICE, record everything. Be a visible deterrent. I don’t think Trump has the right to order them to stop and I don’t think they are inclined to listen to Trump over the interests of their own community.
Though being around the question is what is the guard response to an event like the Pretti shooting would be if they were there documenting things… Being in that scenario with guardsmen might be impossible to both avoid conflict and provide an acceptable response. Guess we would have to hope that the inherent risk of escalation tempers the ICE people, but they haven’t exactly shown themselves to have that sort of restraint…
“Pwease weave. Pwetty pwease.”
Grow some fucking balls and DO something besides jack your massaging jaw, you useless old fuck.
Walz is a typical democrat.
He talks a big game and has great bluster.
but when the cards hit the table, he rolls over, shows his belly and shits himself
He should have activated the national guard weeks ago. He should have had them on the streets everywhere that ICE was at, Following them where ever they went, with orders to intervene anytime they stepped out of line.
He should have been ordering every state law enforcement agency to follow ICE, and arrest them every time they abducted a child, every time they assaulted an innocent civilian, anytime they’ve murdered an innocent person.
but instead of doing anything useful and proactive to protect his state, he keeps going on twitter and begging “pwease mistur pwesident, stahp hwurting my pepulz. pretty pwease?”
Oh shut the fuck up, honestly. I think I’m going to delete Lemmy, the amount of fucking no bodies who have never had a hard day in their life calling for State governments to police federal agencies and blood to run in the streets is madness. You all have no idea what you’re actually advocating for.
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out
Oh look, someone using their imaginary narrative of things no one said to try and derail the topic.
Gee, I wonder what group of people would have a vested interest in trying to derail this topic, by claiming people are calling for blood in the streets… while ICE is literally pouring gallons of blood in the street every day that they never seem to have a single critical comment on. 🤔
Fuck ICE
Please do delete Lemmy, we don’t need liberal apologists here.
Hes not even a fuckin American. Just another foreign agent shit stirrer.
Bruh lol
I’m about 95% sure that there’s dirt on Walz.
Not like, “taking Saudi money to look the other way over political assassination” dirt, but like typical, milquetoast establishment Democrat corruption, some money changing hands somewhere, maybe something to do with China. The kind of thing that the Republicans would do and it would be buried in the news cycle within 5 hours, but if a Dem is caught cheating even stupidly and mildly, they will roll over screaming like a startled baby goat.
Dems are too hung up on “The high road” and fold so easily under the slightest threat of being called out for something improper. Looking at you Al Franken, for forever staining the entire liberal left with the shame of being the weakest, most pathetic losers, incapable of actually protecting their constituents.
Or maybe there’s really no difference between the Democrats and Republicans. It’s a capitalistic show for the easily manipulated citizens of the US Empire, that have been propagandized since early on in grade school.
Go ahead and vote your way out of it.
I will continue to try. We don’t have a lot of other options, but this isn’t a bad option, unless you only watch the bad news.
You are right about the Dems. But we have to stop getting lost in these stupid 4-year federal kayfabe WWE spectacles, when the people and organizations that hold up the Federal state are the local judges, mayors, community leaders and elected representatives.
The USA is too large and our current voting system is simple enough that it would take a very large, concerted effort to cheat the entire thing, or we wouldn’t see people like Mamdani and other progressive/socialist leaders that we saw come into power last local election cycle, and if we actually all got off our asses instead of being cynical and actually built more grassroots movements like New York did, we could kick the legs out from under this entire fetid cauldron of corruption.
This isn’t new, and it doesn’t matter which of the two parties are in office. The US Empire is a cancer.
https://dessalines.github.io/essays/us_atrocities.html#imperialism
I can assure you that in the US a presidential paramilitary invading cities that are overwhelmingly white and shooting citizens in the face live on social media is indeed a new phenomenon.
Sort of. Miller has been involved in developing and test running the concept on years, see Hungary (field test of the fearmongering populism + the “Mike Johnson” special - we had “don’t know, wasn’t there, didn’t hear about it, ask someone else” press conference memes like 12 years ago) and other examples. Definitely involved to some degree with Fico and Putin, and to a lesser extent, Babis, Meloni and Simion. They weren’t sure they could get away with it last time Trump was up there, although if my memory serves, national guard was deployed due to maybe BLM?
I mean really, it’s shocking how fast it ramped up but I cannot say that I’m truly surprised it did happen, and if I look back at the people involved in it, it seems more like a gentle increase of the knob than a sudden twist. It’s also just that the higher you are on the dial, the closer together are the red lines.
They basically spent the last 4 years planning how to make it happen as quickly as possible.
If they haven’t finished within a year, the job risks getting much harder with an uncooperative Congress. So they have to speedrun it, no chance to do it by slow measures.
However even if 2027 swears in the results of free and fair elections, their goals are still doable, since the government said point blank the only group that can possible hold Trump accountable is 2/3rds of the senate, and that’s not happening, and everyone else that might otherwise be more reachable can be pardoned by Trump at will.
So they can get in the way of new legislation, but not pass anything (veto also needs 2/3rds, which they are not getting). The administration has already proven that they don’t wait for a law when they really want to do something.
So unless democrats somehow win every single senate race that’s up for grabs in 2026, they still aren’t going to be able to do anything by the book to actually walk things back.
Yeah I wouldn’t say I’m surprised, and I wouldn’t say it’s entirely “UnPReCEDenTeD” or anything, but it is new and different in terms of scope, brazenness, and certainly technology. We’ve struggled with periods of waxing and waning fascism and fascist-like governance for practically the entire history of the country. The Alien and Sedition Acts were passed into law when the country was less than two decades old. But this is still shocking, smothering, abhorrent and a departure from even ten years ago.
The argument that the US is or was always like this and could only be like this is, in my view, made intentionally to paralyze and further demoralize those of us in the US who wake to a fresh, new hell on a daily basis.
They’re a .ml user, you’re not going to get much in the way of a nuanced and intelligent reply focused on solutions.
Yeah I get it, but I just grow tired of the argument – and it doesn’t solely come from .ml users but is broadly-speaking a tiring recurrent Internet argument – that nothing ever changes and that everything has always been like this even when it obviously and provably has not.
It’s only fine when the US is terrorizing other countries, right?
Bring the garbage to our streets and I’ll be forced to make a sign to convey my feelings outrage.
Never said anything like that pal o’ friend of mine. But you are forced to be ever the contrarian like a good 'lil .ml guy, so I understand.
I know the history of the US from many perspectives, I don’t need essays about it, I am educated enough to know that a great many countries have a lot of blood on their hands.
I am more concerned with solving issues here and now that harm people than joining bandwagons or tankie clubs and self-flagellating about it though.
These kinds of lists just serve like incel manifestos for people hung up on nationalist persecution rather than sexual insecurity.
Wild take. You read about the US recently killing civilians in many different countries, and that brings you to sexual insecurity? Another liberal that would rather bury their head in the sand rather than open their eyes. I wish I could say I was surprised.
The US being the largest global terrorist organization isn’t a thing of the past, it’s very much the present. Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden, and basically all before them took part in the atrocities. Yet, the solution to this problem seems to be: “vote blue no matter who.”
Go ahead and march around in costumes then, let me know how it works.
I’ll be organizing community and grassroots work like happened in New York. I know you’re probably offended by optimism but I am still fighting for my country. Not just whinging how bad things are bad.
A number of people here have no idea what they’re writing about, because they’re not actually from here. I saw some asshole yesterday holding up John Brown as a successful model of how a new American civil war should be fought, lol.
John Brown. If I could find it again I’d screenshot it. This is all just “let’s you and him fight” nonsense.
The number of people on Lemmy alone who will go into frothing rage when you tell them that we’re not about to have a civil war at all actually, at least not this century, tells me a lot about either how uneducated our population is, or how many people really, really get off to cosplaying as Americans online, and think they have even a fleeting idea of what daily life is like here.
Help isn’t coming. Revolution isn’t happening. But we’ve been here before in history, we can turn it around again if enough people work together.
deleted by creator
Don’t be obtuse, you know well what I was trying to say, whatever your issues are with particular people have nothing to do with my point.
i understood your point very well. My point (which i deleted because other commenters had already made similar points and with more detail than i was planning) is that your example of a victory is in fact a loss.
Mumdani is a release valve to stop radical change from happening, a compatible liberal gatekeeper who will take the passion of his electorate and destroy it by a thousand disappointments.
He is a democrat, who surrounds himself with zionists. The only radical thing about him is his identity. He is a muslim Obama, a brown-face genderswapped AOC. He is there because of his identity and his vibes.
If Bernie had won Iowa and if the DNC was at all democratic in its internal processes (superdelegates, ticket-splitting, pied piper etc) then i would share some of your optimism for internal change. We don’t live in that world. A world where people like MTG are allowed to evolve beyond partisan lines, where Massie is able to defend his constitution…
I also don’t want to blackpill you guys into inaction, so i’ll finish this mostly redundant post by saying the american people seem ready for change. The numbers of people hitting the streets to fight ICE is inspiring, and a much more concrete reason to hope than a bunch of exhausted and politically illiterate new yorkers protest voting for a god damn fucking democrat.
What else do you think is going to happen? Do you think there’s going to be a coup in the US?
Walz is a Zionist. Getting Israel ahead is his game.
I don’t know why you think this is the secret that ends his career. Dems fail the purity tests of the type of people that actually care about that and voted Trump by not showing up. Or in even worse cases, went full horseshoe theory and actually voted Trump.
Refusing to vote for the dogs of a genocidal regime is less “purity test” and more “basic humanity”.
No, see, you were given a choice.
a) Reasonably tepid president’s vice president. No great achievements, but no strongly notable transgressions against the people of the country. Policies not actively progressive but not actively hostile. Supports Ukraine. Supports Israel. Runs on the platform of moderate politics.
b) Multiple times convicted felon, strongly suspected of being a pedophile and child trafficker. Catastrophic first term. Weak foreign policy in first term, already schmoozing up to military enemies of the country. Supports nothing but his own pocket.
How is that not a purity test? Even if you’re a normal person that is sternly anti-Israel, you have singled out one issue in which one candidate performs (probably, we don’t even know) worse than the other one. And still outperforms the other one on all other issues unless you’re a ten toes down white supremacist with the sole life goal to make sure people with a darker skin color suffer and a deeper pocket prosper. That’s what we call, say it with me, a purity test. Your refusal to go out and vote is complicity in the murder of Renee Good and Alex Pretti. Don’t preach to me about humanity, you’re probably not even from the US.
Thing is, I care about humanity, not just “the people of the country”. Therefore, “supports Israel” is a dealbreaker.
Supporting the existence of Israel is supporting genocide. I will never vote for someone with such blood on their hands. If you would, especially to maintain your own comfort and privilege, then your soul is compromised.
But “supports Russia” is fine I suppose?
Lots of humanity in “child sex trafficker”, “pedophile”, “rapist”, right?
Delusional. Stop pretending you care about humanity. You care about this one specific issue.
That’s the American way. Next they will SLAM the government and nothing will happen.
I mean he called in the Minnesota National Guard.
…and then what?
Nothing. Because that’s all Democrats will ever be good for: theater.
At the time you made this comment he’d called in the MN guard… a day before.
Currently the guard is feeding protesters so IDK man, that’s actually pretty big.
No, it’s not lol, it’s completely inconsequential. They didn’t protect the protestor whose hand was blown off by ICE’s use of “less lethal” munitions this morning. I don’t give a fuck if they pass out donuts and do some PR segments, there’s no evidence to suggest they’re meaningfully on our side… yet. Especially after state police brutalized protestors at the site of Alex’s murder.
I’m eager to be wrong. I think it’s a vital turning point so I very, very, very much hope to be wrong. But I don’t see it yet.
Serious question, what would demonstrate they’re meaningfully on our side to you, but wouldn’t be a literal civil war? Because short of that, federal troops feeding protesters is a big deal.
Some places to start could be
I think those would all fall short of “a literal civil war”.
I see federal troops feeding protestors as an attempt to maintain the perception of the state as a legitimate authority without actually needing to take any meaningful action. “Look guys, they’re with us!”… except when the bullets / less-than-lethal projectiles start flying.
Is a great thing, I hope they do this (though if they do follow through I suspect trump will order them to stop)
Would unfortunately be a civil war thing - it’s not open conflict, but it would require the subversion of federal systems (the emergency warning systems) to actively sabotage federal troops. I don’t know about the free speech rights, but generally speaking the military has sharp restrictions on what counts as free speech.
He was killed two days ago and the court hearing to attempt to ensure BCA has access to the site is ongoing as I write this so hopefully there will be progress soon!
Another serious question (and setting aside the question of legality because who fuckin’ cares at this point), what resources should the state put out to support this? Having worked with several state governments, there’s not really “spare cash” floating around to enable this kind of unbelievable expenditure, so it’s somewhat limited to an eviction freeze (which is almost entirely out of the state’s control)
Not really a national guard thing but fair enough. I’ve seen some limited vids from there but most of what I’ve seen was one violent interaction then the police fled, was there more than that? I’ve seen people say they came back that evening but I can’t find a good source for that.
I too see 1. as the unambiguous thing to do, follow ICE, record everything. Be a visible deterrent. I don’t think Trump has the right to order them to stop and I don’t think they are inclined to listen to Trump over the interests of their own community.
Though being around the question is what is the guard response to an event like the Pretti shooting would be if they were there documenting things… Being in that scenario with guardsmen might be impossible to both avoid conflict and provide an acceptable response. Guess we would have to hope that the inherent risk of escalation tempers the ICE people, but they haven’t exactly shown themselves to have that sort of restraint…