Would community defense organizing be good?
Alone, you are out-manned and out-gunned. Community is probably the best bet as bullies rely on uneven strength for their confidence. They’re untrained and want an easy target. Don’t give them it
I really wish there are free community defense classes
What kind of classes? Shooting? If so I’d say shooting won’t help much unless you have a community response to those threatening you. It just gives ammunition to those calling the American population dangerous, and trying to break them into groups so they can exploit hatred and fear. I believe that standing by all “groups” no matter what is what needs to happen. When someone tries to divide to conquer, the best answer I can see is avoiding any divides. The problem is it works on so many people, that about 30% of the country agrees that they have enemies in the country. Yet those people they think are enemies… Are no one they know, and would take as a friend if they were their neighbor.
Edit: that’s said as someone taught to shoot when I was 8 and has owned guns from 18, I’m 36. Guns aren’t the answer without community
All groups with one caveat. No Nazis. They can go fuck themselves.
2A. What it was intended for.
Unless you’re actually breaking the law and they’re not fake cops. In that instance you’re the asshole.
Some would argue that shooting real cops wouldn’t make you an asshole either.
You still wouldn’t be legal for doing so. But I wouldn’t say someone is an asshole just because they killed a cop.
I’d argue if a cop is trying to kill you instead of arrest you, which is their job, then yeah, killing them back isn’t exactly an asshole response.
You can be an asshole for something else in the situation, but not for the mutual killing.
Hence the “and”.
First, contact as many people as you can, especially local ICE watch orgs. A lot have hotlines which you may be able to find with a web search. Next start recording. Delay as long as possible. Ask for a warrant, stay calm and maybe try to negotiate as a stall tactic. This will hopefully give community members time to arrive and record or hopefully apply pressure if they are brave and numerous enough. It is possible to intimidate and drive them back with enough numbers.
All else fails at this point I would not fight back and allow yourself to be arrested. Most citizens being arrested right now are being released. The courts are slow but still upholding the law for now. If you are not a citizen then your options might not be as good. Fighting back is likely to get you injured or killed but if you have an escape route it could be worthwhile, especially if you can escape in areas where motor vehicles can’t go. Their level of fitness is generally low so they can’t give chase for long, and as long as you’re not high profile you might be safe once you get away, though you’ll likely need to lie low somewhere.
If you’re asking what to do about the current political situation in a broader sense then I have different answers.
I think groups of openly armed citizens patrolling the streets would be a huge deterrent to ICE. These guys are violent bullies when they operate against unarmed people, but I doubt they are willing to mess with a mass of armed defenders.
But if the military continues to go along with Trump then this just may escalate things.
If they are in your home and you are at gun point, all you can do is play along and pray. Anyone saying otherwise is beating their chest or stupid.
If you were armed and responded with force, they will kill you. Period. Even if you manage to take down the initial force, you’re not leaving that house alive.
We need to do so many more things before the “they’re in my house with guns” stage.
Start by getting to know your neighbors. For real. If they are all right leaning, move. Surround yourself with like-minded people. Build mutual aid networks. They are far less likely to enter your neighbor’s home if you’re sheltering there, for example.
Have contingency plans on top of contingency plans. For example: you have a best case scenario fleeing plan. Decide where you’re going (ideally another country). Build out your time line, work on making it happen. Then plan less ideal ones all the way down to your “Anne Frank” plan. Who can you hide with long term?
For the Anne Frank scenario; what are your insurgency skills? You don’t have to be a fighter to be useful to your community. Learn, hone, and practice the skills that make you valuable to yourself and others.
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I sorta agree with this. I live in the Trumpiest state in this shitty union. I’m the most left leaning person on my block. I know most of my neighbors and they have gotten to like us. That said, there are some of them who I know would turn us in no matter what.
The area I live in is majority trump cultists. However I am a middle aged overweight white male construction worker, so I blend right in. Im going to be someones anne Franke hidey hole if it comes to that.
Doing the good work, comrade.
There are four boxes of liberty. The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box. Use them in that order
Soap and jury are out. We might not make it to ballot.
Would be incredible to see protest where they show up to any ice presence fully armed. Still act as observes but also to ensure ice doesn’t execute anymore Americans
Use your gun.
Don’t have one? Get one.
Can’t get one? Make one.
Will the
leftleft-claiming finally accept the need for 2a?The left are armed. Or did you mean Democrats/Liberals?
Fair enough.
Another liberal here with a literal fucking arsenal suck my balls divider
Liberal here. I’ve a real beauty of a Lee-Enfield that was used to kill fascists in the 20th century. She’s ready to do so once again in the 21st if necessary.
That’s awesome, I’d like to fire one some day. I love a good bolt action.
Action is smoother than a fifty year old Scotch. Constructed about a hundred years ago, but if you didn’t know that, you’d swear it was brought into the King’s service yesterday.
As to downvotes that aren’t related to phrasing: do you really think that’s an invalid statement? Why?
I didn’t downvote you, but it’s been my experience that liberals tend to support ineffectual gun control and the left tend to already be armed.
Democrats aren’t much to the left of Republicans.
Yep, that’s why I changed phrasing - and, agreed.
Hit me up for PDF on option 3.
Any and all kind of organizing are good. Don’t reinvent the wheel- find people who are already somewhat organized and go there and LISTEN. They will be less privileged than you but if you go in there humbly and say you’re a dumb shit and should have listened to them way way earlier then maybe things will work out. The elephant in the room is that you never cared about their lives and you obviously need help now, but you’ll be surprised how compassionate people can be. This is also a pretty good list.
‘Don’t reinvent the wheel’
Wait, this is horrible advice. It’s the opposite of what any successful entity does. The wheel here is a problem that the authoritarians have solved long ago. If you’re not reinventing it then you’re cooked before you even go to the store to buy your markers and bullshit cardboard supplies. They have studied the same old civil protests for decades. They have made laws to prevent protestors from being effective. They have decades of behavioral studies and actionable propaganda that they pull out and dust off every time you even think about sharing one of those ‘no kings’ or ‘general strike’ posts. Any protest you can imagine they have solved. If you don’t reinvent the wheel, you’re going to look fucking stupid when you show up with another 700m people and go home having accomplished nothing except get your leadership and organizers arrested.
That wheel needs to be reinvented. Look at the truck convoy. Hate them all you want but they did something brilliant. It was brilliant because at their top they had people who studied and knew police and authoritarian response and they found solutions to break them. After all, they were the authoritarians. They first drove through the streets across America to build awareness and hype. It’s a fucking parade. People came out and cheered on over passes as they rolled through. Others joined. Then they filled cities with so many vehicles and trucks that the police had no idea how to even responsed. How do police safely weave themselves into that formation to make arrests. Then what do they do with the trucks just sitting there? The truckers made it a street party to prevent police from committing violence. They invited families down to enjoy music and hot tubs while also shutting down major parts of cities everywhere neutralizing police ability to do their job.
The left do not have the same effort at the top. It’s lacking. But they need to figure it out super fast because I promise you if you’re just showing up to the streets with the same old shit then you’ve already lost. That wheel needs to be reinvented quick
I’m in rural Cheshire in the UK, so first of all I’d be very surprised.
Do a nazi thing, like a hitler salute. That way they get confused, and could possibly see you as one of them.
Second idea: wear an explosive belt at all times, now you can get all of them, and if youre lucky even the bomb expert and negotiator.
If you go out wearing a suicide vest, you’ll get 84 virgins of your choosing. Men, women, sheep . . .
Exactly, and you do good. I say its a win-win situation.
If NOT those things, what else should I do?
Rabbits foot?
Leave the country. Its far better for you and your family
You excerise your rights provided to you by the constitution. Have a lawyer and video tape everything you can and fuck it do it live.
I’m from a suburb of Minneapolis. Civil engagement is a good way to go. Recent events (shootings) got people to get our city council to figure out what they could do for gun safety. ICE hasn’t touched our wealthy suburb yet, though. There hasn’t been a city meeting since Renee Good, as well. Next city council meeting will be 🔥
Kill or be killed.
Kill and be killed in this situation. Defending yourself is not going to win out in a solo situation.
Honestly DylanMc6 there is nothing you can do and no answer that will be correct. Do your best.
My advice is buy a shotgun, let them know you are armed and under no circumstances do you open your door to them. Once the door is open all hell will break loose and you will have to make some hard choices within seconds.
Protect yourself and your family at all costs and hope you don’t have to kill anyone to do it.
I’m actually non-binary, and I prefer gender-neutral and feminine terms. Seriously!
Ok. Buy a shotgun.
Please change your pronouns to [she,they] then.
Corrected. Thanks
